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Audiobro Modern Scoring Brass (MSB)

Duncan Krummel

New Member
You, um... what? I don't think this is how MSB is intended to be used. I also am wary of demos performed/programmed with other libraries being run through a new one--- These instruments need to be performed and it takes time to learn to play a new library.
Sorry for the confusion! Mucusman had it right, I was referring to the demo with CSB. CSB only contains a single C trumpet patch, so I pitch shifted it down a whole step and transposed the MIDI up a whole step to account for the difference. Ergo, my Frankensteinian Bb trumpet.

MSB on the other hand has dedicated Bb and C trumpets, so this wan't needed. I should also mention both that I used separate instances for each instrument instead of the auto divisi here, as I was moving MIDI parts between libraries and also needed independent CC control, and also that - while yes, I did copy parts from a previous demo - I did manipulate the MIDI CC data and wrote CC2 data just for this for the vibrato. But I also wanted to make the point that it copies very nicely by default from CSB, with only minor tweaks. That will certainly be a huge timesaver for me, and I imagine for many others with both libraries as well.
 

Duncan Krummel

New Member
Wow, this is what I wanted to hear. One of the first demos I really like, and actually prefer MSB for this kind of choral brass writing. If you have time Duncan, could you do a short and fast fanfare with both shorts and longs with MSB?
Be happy to, and thank you for the kind words! I'll work something up when I'm home tonight.

Also, can't find the muddy comment on my phone, but you're not far off! I had to mix the trombone down a bit and make the horn a bit more strident, but as a whole these two instruments in particular I found to be a bit mellower and warmer than need be for this example. So I think, all said and done with the verb, it ended up a bit muddy down there.
 

kevthurman

Active Member
Have you managed to solve the stuttering problem you mentioned upthread?
Not yet. And it doesn't seem to get any better or worse based on how much load is on the system. It stutters the same whether it's full mix, individual mics patched loaded, a full section or a single instrument, etc. I will investigate and use the manual more this afternoon to see if it isn't fixable. If I can't fix it myself I'll go to their support forum.
 

Phillip996

New Member
So I posted this demo when I first got my hands on CSB, for which I was most impressed by that particular libraries lower, chorale-fitting dynamics. Picked up MSB immediately for the auto-divisi and extra brass that neither CSB nor HWB had provided. MSB is certainly a different beast, but the reputation that LASS set forward and that even Genesis still carried is that these libraries need to be tweaked to fit what you're using them for. I replaced the CSB instruments with their MSB counterparts in the second demo below.



CSB only has C trumpets available, whereas MSB offers both C and Bb (1st - C, 2nd - Bb, 3rd - Bb, 4th - C). With the CSB demo, I transposed the second solo trumpet down and bumped the MIDI up by a whole step to emulate a Bb trumpet, which was necessary to get a strong timbral difference between the two. For MSB, I used the first and third trumpets, so both were Bb. This was for the richer tone in the lower range. I preferred the strong legato transitions of CSB, so I increased the volume of transitions in MSB by about 1db each, and lowered the legato speed of each instrument to the lowest setting. I used the Scoring/Film Stage depth control preset on each and made a virtual semi-circle to create a seating arrangement. I also used the mix mics on each at their default, and then brought in some extra close mic to add bite. Sizzle is also set to it's highest setting (this is a very subtle effect). Vibrato is controllable in this library, something CSB does not offer control of. This is set by default to CC2, which actually makes it very easy to copy parts between CSS and MSB. Finally, I set attack control to Velocity (trying to get closer to a CSB workflow since I was copying MIDI data), and raised the velocity response on the Horn a bit to have it respond quicker to the MIDI data. All CC1 data was bumped up from where it was set for CSB, as this library is generally softer than CSB.

Other than the stage presets, all other internal processing was turned off. Similar to the CSB example, the only external processing was a little Spaces II War Memorial and then the Ozone Maximizer to match the volume of the examples.

Edit: I now user demos are in high demand, so - while I work full time - let me know if there are features you'd like to learn more about and I can post accompanying examples when I have a moment.
Were you using indivudual tracks for all the instruments or did you use the combined tracks?
 
OP
zolhof

zolhof

Active Member
Anyone using MSB with a breath controller? I didn't see it mentioned anywhere how friendly this thing is to TEControl BBC2.

Great download speeds btw, solid server.
 

I like music

Senior Member
So I posted this demo when I first got my hands on CSB, for which I was most impressed by that particular libraries lower, chorale-fitting dynamics. Picked up MSB immediately for the auto-divisi and extra brass that neither CSB nor HWB had provided. MSB is certainly a different beast, but the reputation that LASS set forward and that even Genesis still carried is that these libraries need to be tweaked to fit what you're using them for. I replaced the CSB instruments with their MSB counterparts in the second demo below.



CSB only has C trumpets available, whereas MSB offers both C and Bb (1st - C, 2nd - Bb, 3rd - Bb, 4th - C). With the CSB demo, I transposed the second solo trumpet down and bumped the MIDI up by a whole step to emulate a Bb trumpet, which was necessary to get a strong timbral difference between the two. For MSB, I used the first and third trumpets, so both were Bb. This was for the richer tone in the lower range. I preferred the strong legato transitions of CSB, so I increased the volume of transitions in MSB by about 1db each, and lowered the legato speed of each instrument to the lowest setting. I used the Scoring/Film Stage depth control preset on each and made a virtual semi-circle to create a seating arrangement. I also used the mix mics on each at their default, and then brought in some extra close mic to add bite. Sizzle is also set to it's highest setting (this is a very subtle effect). Vibrato is controllable in this library, something CSB does not offer control of. This is set by default to CC2, which actually makes it very easy to copy parts between CSS and MSB. Finally, I set attack control to Velocity (trying to get closer to a CSB workflow since I was copying MIDI data), and raised the velocity response on the Horn a bit to have it respond quicker to the MIDI data. All CC1 data was bumped up from where it was set for CSB, as this library is generally softer than CSB.

Other than the stage presets, all other internal processing was turned off. Similar to the CSB example, the only external processing was a little Spaces II War Memorial and then the Ozone Maximizer to match the volume of the examples.

Edit: I know user demos are in high demand, so - while I work full time - let me know if there are features you'd like to learn more about and I can post accompanying examples when I have a moment.
Quite apart from the comparison, a very nice piece. Your own? Wondered if you had a MIDI that you'd be OK sharing. Obviously, no problem if not!
Thanks!
 

Patrick de Caumette

Senior Member
Hello Patrick,

Can you say what was not to your liking and what their advice was?
Sure: i thought that the shorts were not tight enough.
But in order to have really tight fast shorts, you must:
- Select the shorts (via KS in my case)
- Set the Tighten knob all the way up, which by default was all the way down.
Make sure to be in Tile mode (i think that it now is set this way by default) , so that any change you make to your articulation are recalled when switching articulations and coming back to it.
- Use CC4 to select double tongue
- adjust CC1 for sharper timber (or not)

- also, pick the humanization setting you prefer: humanization off is the tightest

This seems like a lot to do, but you can save your patch with your preference settings and it is no longer an issue...
 
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Patrick de Caumette

Senior Member
Here's a couple renditions of the euphonium solo from Holst's second suite in F. It's better than the others I've posted so far as I think this library has a lot of potential for controlling the very minute details of short notes as is asked of the brass in this excerpt. There's one which is completely dry and one which has some spaces II on it.

[AUDIOPLUS=https://vi-control.net/community/attachments/holst_suite_2-mp3.19594/][/AUDIOPLUS]

[AUDIOPLUS=https://vi-control.net/community/attachments/holst_suite_2_dry-mp3.19595/][/AUDIOPLUS]
May i suggest that you quantize your lines too much, and that the tempo is too rigid for best results?
It doesn't feel like it was performed by human beings...
 
OP
zolhof

zolhof

Active Member
Awesome, I'm glad to hear that! After using a breath controller with Sample Modeling, it's hard to look back.

I'm also saving for an EWI controller, any users here? So excited to learn a new instrument. :dancedance:
 

Noeticus

Motion Picture Producer
Sure: i thought that the shorts were not tight enough.
But in order to have really tight fast shorts, you must:
- Select the shorts (via KS in my case)
- Set the Tighten knob all the way up, which by default was all the way down.
Make sure to be in Tile mode (i think that it now is set this way by default) , so that any change you make to your articulation are recalled when switching articulations and coming back to it.
- Use CC4 to select double tongue
- adjust CC1 for sharper timber (or not)

- also, pick the humanization setting you prefer: humanization off is the tightest

This seems like a lot to do, but you can save your patch with your preference settings and it is no longer an issue...
Thanks, Patrick. While it might take a bit, it's way faster than using live people with real instruments. : )
 

David Cuny

Words! Words! Words!
I'm also saving for an EWI controller, any users here? So excited to learn a new instrument. :dancedance:
I use the EWI, and love it.

Initially, it's a bit weird playing without the keys moving - sort of like playing a broomstick (or a recorder, for that matter).

It takes very little breath, so if you play a wind instrument already, you need to scale back a lot, and possibly let some air out through the sides of you mouth.

Once you work out the basic fingering, you should check out the extensive alternate fingerings, as they can come in quite handy.

You can make a wireless USB EWI with off the shelf hardware for about $150 in additional parts:
  1. Yamaha UD-BT01 ($50)
  2. CME Widi Bud ($50)
  3. Short USB cord ($10)
  4. Portable cell phone battery charger ($15)
  5. Velcro ($5)
I'd highly recommend going that route if you do any live playing. The additional hardware weighs virtually nothing, and it's much nicer than being tied to a USB cable.
 

NoamL

Winter <3
I don't think the star wars fanfare someone posted above was a fair representation. This one is a bit better.

[AUDIOPLUS=https://vi-control.net/community/attachments/star_wars-mp3.19600/][/AUDIOPLUS]
Sounds like something that would come with Finale, I'm afraid.

I'm repeating myself, but... if this isn't a professional demo, I don't know what is. It's *exactly* scoring- SCORING BRASS:

https://audiobro.com/modern-scoring-brass/

Wanker Star Wars sequence pasted in without being adjusted to any library is going to sound like wanker Star Wars sequence with any library.
Yeah but there's a middle ground to this Nick.

Anyone can have their own opinions but I discount both ends of the spectrum. I discount the importance of user demos because people are still learning how to use the library and sometimes the demos are bad copypasted MIDI. But I also discount the developer's demos especially dressed ones. As JunkieXL says in one of his videos, spending weeks to iron out a super polished demo has little to do with how working composers do it.

That's why developer walkthrough videos are really the best, assuming they're comprehensive and honest, because you get to see the library used live, without processing, by someone who knows how it works.
 

givemenoughrope

Senior Member
I’m sick of the demo dance too. It’s almost like we should all throw re-peat or rob or some mockup monster a few $€£ so they can buy libraries and do a few mockups.

That said, I’m pretty sure that Audiobro, given their reputation with LASS, has made a solid and malleable library. If users know how to use it...another story... I’m not prepared to dismiss it on the basis of three demos. Not by a long shot.
 
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