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Audiobro Modern Scoring Brass (MSB)

Guy Rowland

Senior Member
So I posted this demo...
...and thank you for doing so, Duncan, this is MUCH more like it. I liked both, the overall difference is that to my ears MSB edges it for realism. It's a bit more precise, and while CSB has a beautifully flattering tone MSB more than holds its own, with perhaps a little less aural hype, as it were, a little less artificially big.

I think the settings you used sound spot on, and this is the first vibrato I've noticed - sounds much better than I was expecting in context, given its an effect.
 

Duncan Krummel

New Member
Well, those are pretty close. I think CSB is better in spots, specifically the beginning, and maybe a bit overall - but only a by a little bit.
I agree, though of course the benefit with CSB here is also that this was originally played in with CSB, so the nuances of reacting while you're writing the line is more intuitive there. What I particularly like about CSB, oddly enough, is what I also particularly like about MSB: CSB has a bit more room and fuzz in it, which make soft chorales like this sound more realistic. MSB, on the other hand, is extremely clean. This makes it extremely flexible, but a little harder to make convincing sometimes when exposed.

...and thank you for doing so, Duncan, this is MUCH more like it. I liked both, the overall difference is that to my ears MSB edges it for realism. It's a bit more precise, and while CSB has a beautifully flattering tone MSB more than holds its own, with perhaps a little less aural hype, as it were, a little less artificially big.

I think the settings you used sound spot on, and this is the first vibrato I've noticed - sounds much better than I was expecting in context, given its an effect.
Thank you! I truly find MSB very playable, but it requires more CC writing to control each parameter of the sound, whereas CSB is straight-out-of-the-box gorgeous. Just my style, but I find the slider control for attack less intuitive than velocity, and the dynamics CC velocity-scaled less controllable than simple CC. But to each their own. There are a number of controls for tuning, so I am hoping there's flexibility to reduce the precision as well, create a bit more strain.
 

sinkd

Senior Member
I transposed the second solo trumpet down and bumped the MIDI up by a whole step to emulate a Bb trumpet, which was necessary to get a strong timbral difference between the two.
You, um... what? I don't think this is how MSB is intended to be used. I also am wary of demos performed/programmed with other libraries being run through a new one--- These instruments need to be performed and it takes time to learn to play a new library.

Downloading MSB now, myself.
 

Guy Rowland

Senior Member
You, um... what? I don't think this is how MSB is intended to be used. I also am wary of demos performed/programmed with other libraries being run through a new one--- These instruments need to be performed and it takes time to learn to play a new library.
Nevertheless, it is by far the best user demo for MSB out there that I've come across, and IMO its the results that count. Think its an excellent adaptation, actually all the more impressive for being written for a different library.
 

NoamL

Winter <3

Here's a rather quick pass with CSB. Could definitely use a lot more massaging, but I gotta get back to work now. :grin:
Still on the fence with MSB, CSB is just so good and flexible that I'm not sure I really need it.
:faint:

The trumpet could even be down a little further in dynamics, it sounds like it's right at 127 whereas in the real life recording it's more in balance with the horns/trombones. But wow, this is REALLY close to the vibe of the real life recording to my ears. Aggressive and adventurous!
 
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NoamL

Winter <3
@Duncan Krummel really nice on both demos. With MSB I hear the same thing as with Berlin Brass - the true divisi really does make a difference because you can feel that it's several unique instruments and musicians. Unfortunately I don't really use BB much anymore because it's just not consistent enough in dynamics & programming. When the brass are heard in the orchestral context, it matters more that they have an overall great tone & sense of musicality and I think CSB is really top of its class for that. But for any kind of exposed brass writing like this chorale, I think I prefer MSB to the CSB demo.
 

axb312

Senior Member
So I posted this demo when I first got my hands on CSB, for which I was most impressed by that particular libraries lower, chorale-fitting dynamics. Picked up MSB immediately for the auto-divisi and extra brass that neither CSB nor HWB had provided. MSB is certainly a different beast, but the reputation that LASS set forward and that even Genesis still carried is that these libraries need to be tweaked to fit what you're using them for. I replaced the CSB instruments with their MSB counterparts in the second demo below.



CSB only has C trumpets available, whereas MSB offers both C and Bb (1st - C, 2nd - Bb, 3rd - Bb, 4th - C). With the CSB demo, I transposed the second solo trumpet down and bumped the MIDI up by a whole step to emulate a Bb trumpet, which was necessary to get a strong timbral difference between the two. For MSB, I used the first and third trumpets, so both were Bb. This was for the richer tone in the lower range. I preferred the strong legato transitions of CSB, so I increased the volume of transitions in MSB by about 1db each, and lowered the legato speed of each instrument to the lowest setting. I used the Scoring/Film Stage depth control preset on each and made a virtual semi-circle to create a seating arrangement. I also used the mix mics on each at their default, and then brought in some extra close mic to add bite. Sizzle is also set to it's highest setting (this is a very subtle effect). Vibrato is controllable in this library, something CSB does not offer control of. This is set by default to CC2, which actually makes it very easy to copy parts between CSS and MSB. Finally, I set attack control to Velocity (trying to get closer to a CSB workflow since I was copying MIDI data), and raised the velocity response on the Horn a bit to have it respond quicker to the MIDI data. All CC1 data was bumped up from where it was set for CSB, as this library is generally softer than CSB.

Other than the stage presets, all other internal processing was turned off. Similar to the CSB example, the only external processing was a little Spaces II War Memorial and then the Ozone Maximizer to match the volume of the examples.

Edit: I now user demos are in high demand, so - while I work full time - let me know if there are features you'd like to learn more about and I can post accompanying examples when I have a moment.
Maybe verb or EQ but the mix sounds a little muddy on MSB to me....
 

AlexanderSchiborr

Senior Member
So I posted this demo when I first got my hands on CSB, for which I was most impressed by that particular libraries lower, chorale-fitting dynamics. Picked up MSB immediately for the auto-divisi and extra brass that neither CSB nor HWB had provided. MSB is certainly a different beast, but the reputation that LASS set forward and that even Genesis still carried is that these libraries need to be tweaked to fit what you're using them for. I replaced the CSB instruments with their MSB counterparts in the second demo below.



CSB only has C trumpets available, whereas MSB offers both C and Bb (1st - C, 2nd - Bb, 3rd - Bb, 4th - C). With the CSB demo, I transposed the second solo trumpet down and bumped the MIDI up by a whole step to emulate a Bb trumpet, which was necessary to get a strong timbral difference between the two. For MSB, I used the first and third trumpets, so both were Bb. This was for the richer tone in the lower range. I preferred the strong legato transitions of CSB, so I increased the volume of transitions in MSB by about 1db each, and lowered the legato speed of each instrument to the lowest setting. I used the Scoring/Film Stage depth control preset on each and made a virtual semi-circle to create a seating arrangement. I also used the mix mics on each at their default, and then brought in some extra close mic to add bite. Sizzle is also set to it's highest setting (this is a very subtle effect). Vibrato is controllable in this library, something CSB does not offer control of. This is set by default to CC2, which actually makes it very easy to copy parts between CSS and MSB. Finally, I set attack control to Velocity (trying to get closer to a CSB workflow since I was copying MIDI data), and raised the velocity response on the Horn a bit to have it respond quicker to the MIDI data. All CC1 data was bumped up from where it was set for CSB, as this library is generally softer than CSB.

Other than the stage presets, all other internal processing was turned off. Similar to the CSB example, the only external processing was a little Spaces II War Memorial and then the Ozone Maximizer to match the volume of the examples.

Edit: I now user demos are in high demand, so - while I work full time - let me know if there are features you'd like to learn more about and I can post accompanying examples when I have a moment.
Hej man,

great job and very well done. First demo I really dig I have to say. I like both versions. Tbh in that example I even prefer MSB over CSB.
 

germancomponist

Senior Member
For me, I handle orchestra sample libraries like I handle real musicians. In short: I have to tickle the skills out of real musicians. The same I have to do with sample libraries.

My ears told me that MSB is also a great brass library like other good brass libraries.
Congrats to the makers of this lib!
 

kevthurman

Active Member
Here's a couple renditions of the euphonium solo from Holst's second suite in F. It's better than the others I've posted so far as I think this library has a lot of potential for controlling the very minute details of short notes as is asked of the brass in this excerpt. There's one which is completely dry and one which has some spaces II on it.

[AUDIOPLUS=https://vi-control.net/community/attachments/holst_suite_2-mp3.19594/][/AUDIOPLUS]

[AUDIOPLUS=https://vi-control.net/community/attachments/holst_suite_2_dry-mp3.19595/][/AUDIOPLUS]
 

Attachments

jbuhler

Senior Member
Here's a couple renditions of the euphonium solo from Holst's second suite in F. It's better than the others I've posted so far as I think this library has a lot of potential for controlling the very minute details of short notes as is asked of the brass in this excerpt. There's one which is completely dry and one which has some spaces II on it.

[AUDIOPLUS=https://vi-control.net/community/attachments/holst_suite_2-mp3.19594/][/AUDIOPLUS]

[AUDIOPLUS=https://vi-control.net/community/attachments/holst_suite_2_dry-mp3.19595/][/AUDIOPLUS]
Have you managed to solve the stuttering problem you mentioned upthread?
 

Noeticus

Motion Picture Producer
Small comment: this library is deep and offers a lot of flexibility for line shaping.
It has a substantial learning curve in order to get the most out of it.
To think that you can fire it up for the first time and write a great demo, without learning all of its features first is not realistic.
It took me days to get comfortable with the possibilities.
At times, i questioned the ability of a certain articulation, to find out after talking to Audio Bro that i was doing it wrong.

Long and short notes are shaped by a number of controls
I also recommend using your own reverbs, even though there are certainly some good IR in there (look further down the list for scoring stages and brass halls: those are not apparent, you need to scroll down the list)

MSB may not give you instant gratification out of the box the way other libraries do, but once you spend time with it, you can have greater control and a more flexible tool to shape your music the way you hear it.

At least, that's my personal experience beta testing it...

Hello Patrick,

Can you say what was not to your liking and what their advice was?
 

sekkosiki

Senior Member
So I posted this demo when I first got my hands on CSB, for which I was most impressed by that particular libraries lower, chorale-fitting dynamics. Picked up MSB immediately for the auto-divisi and extra brass that neither CSB nor HWB had provided. MSB is certainly a different beast, but the reputation that LASS set forward and that even Genesis still carried is that these libraries need to be tweaked to fit what you're using them for. I replaced the CSB instruments with their MSB counterparts in the second demo below.



CSB only has C trumpets available, whereas MSB offers both C and Bb (1st - C, 2nd - Bb, 3rd - Bb, 4th - C). With the CSB demo, I transposed the second solo trumpet down and bumped the MIDI up by a whole step to emulate a Bb trumpet, which was necessary to get a strong timbral difference between the two. For MSB, I used the first and third trumpets, so both were Bb. This was for the richer tone in the lower range. I preferred the strong legato transitions of CSB, so I increased the volume of transitions in MSB by about 1db each, and lowered the legato speed of each instrument to the lowest setting. I used the Scoring/Film Stage depth control preset on each and made a virtual semi-circle to create a seating arrangement. I also used the mix mics on each at their default, and then brought in some extra close mic to add bite. Sizzle is also set to it's highest setting (this is a very subtle effect). Vibrato is controllable in this library, something CSB does not offer control of. This is set by default to CC2, which actually makes it very easy to copy parts between CSS and MSB. Finally, I set attack control to Velocity (trying to get closer to a CSB workflow since I was copying MIDI data), and raised the velocity response on the Horn a bit to have it respond quicker to the MIDI data. All CC1 data was bumped up from where it was set for CSB, as this library is generally softer than CSB.

Other than the stage presets, all other internal processing was turned off. Similar to the CSB example, the only external processing was a little Spaces II War Memorial and then the Ozone Maximizer to match the volume of the examples.

Edit: I now user demos are in high demand, so - while I work full time - let me know if there are features you'd like to learn more about and I can post accompanying examples when I have a moment.
Wow, this is what I wanted to hear. One of the first demos I really like, and actually prefer MSB for this kind of choral brass writing. If you have time Duncan, could you do a short and fast fanfare with both shorts and longs with MSB?
 

Nick Batzdorf

Moderator
Moderator
The "Starwars fanfare demo" left me speechless; I would have to dig out my Sampletank to replicate that. I really hope AudioBro gets moving on some professional demos, or these initial impressions will be difficult to overcome.
I'm repeating myself, but... if this isn't a professional demo, I don't know what is. It's *exactly* scoring- SCORING BRASS:

https://audiobro.com/modern-scoring-brass/

Wanker Star Wars sequence pasted in without being adjusted to any library is going to sound like wanker Star Wars sequence with any library.
 
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