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At what volume should I set Kontakt, the sound card and the monitors ???

darkneo57

Member
hi,

I am a beginner in computer music, the sound libraries I use have different volumes for the same velocity (pianos), I also have strings and brass and I'm making my first real template.

In Kontak I have set the volumes in relation to the sound clipping with a midi file with high velocities, so if I want to have an equal volume for the instruments, I have to compensate by lowering the volume of the loudest libraries and raising the volume of the sound card. I'm a professional musician, so I'm very careful with my ears, I don't want that by having to raise the volume of the sound card to equalize the volume, that an error creates a too loud sound. Currently the volume of my sound card (MOTU M4) is 50%, the volume of my monitors 50% too ( yamaha HS7 ), I'm on cubase 11, faders at 0. I think I should turn up the sound card volume up to 65%.

Is this setting common? Could you give me some information on how to set up the volume in your music studio?

Thank you, have a nice day

Sorry for my English, I am French.
 
Since you're setting up a template, you should go ahead and GAIN STAGE your tracks.

The easiest way to do this is load an instrument into an instance of Kontakt.

Set the fader of that track to 0db.

Play the instrument at it's loudest that you will ever use.

Check the meters on the track in your DAW.

Using Kontakt's Master Volume, adjust it so that the levels average at about -12db with the peak around -6db.

Kontakt-Mast-Vol.jpg

If the Master Volume isn't visible, click the highlighted button (top right) and turn it on.

NOTE: Some people prefer an average level of around -18db. I use a lot of analog modelled plugins and I've found they generally like a little hotter signal. It doesn't really matter.
 
Hi,

thank you very much for your response.
I'm sorry, I have several questions regarding your answer.

Before posting this thread, I had set my DAW faders to 0, I played each virtual instrument with the highest velocity I was using until there was no more clipping (red line in kontakt ) I put -0.5db as a precaution. On the other hand I didn't use the same volume of kontalt as you (see attached picture), does it change anything ? if yes, why ?

kontakt volume.png


Also, when there was clipping on the signal in kontakt (red line), I also had clipping in my DAW which exceeded 0. Moreover, as some of my instruments have completely different basic volumes in the "higher velocities", e.g. piano & strings, when I set the kontakt levels correctly, some of the instruments have a volume that is too low compared to the others, I have no choice but to turn down the volume of my sound card. ( You didn't mention this )

I have to compensate by lowering the volume of the loudest libraries and raising the volume of the sound card. I'm a professional musician, so I'm very careful with my ears, I don't want that by having to raise the volume of the sound card to equalize the volume, that an error creates a too loud sound. Currently the volume of my sound card (MOTU M4) is 50%, the volume of my monitors 50% too ( yamaha HS7 ), I'm on cubase 11, faders at 0. I think I should turn up the sound card volume up to 65%.


I'm sorry, maybe I misunderstood your explanations. In any case thank you very much.

have a nice weekend
 
I should have inquired before responding whether you're using Kontakt in multi-mode (with multiple instruments loaded into a single instance of Kontakt), or whether you use only one instrument per instance of Kontakt. My method is only applicable to the latter. For multiple reasons, I never load more than one instrument in Kontakt.

If it is the former, then you can't use Kontakt's master Volume to gain stage since it will affect the volume of multiple instruments at once, of course.

*Either way, you should avoid using the instrument volume slider which you posted an image of.

The instrument volume slider is saved as an instrument setting and has almost always been set to an optimal level by the library creator. If you've altered this setting and saved it in your template, you need to reload the instrument(s) and restore it/them to the manufaturer's default state.

If you feel you need to run Kontakt with multiple instruments loaded, the you need to use either your DAW's built in channel gain feature or insert a GAIN PLUGIN in the first effect insert slot on each channel and use that.

___________________________________

The reason I didn't mention the volume of your interface is because it has nothing to do with gain staging. Gain staging is all about setting proper levels along the signal path within your DAW. Your interface is a separate thing.
 
hi,

thanks for yourresponse and for your patiente, i'm a beginner.

I'm using only one instrument per instance of Kontakt.

The instrument volume slider is saved as an instrument setting and has almost always been set to an optimal level by the library creator.

This applies to all sound libraries ? strings, brass, piano, omnisphere ?

i'm going to reload the instruments and restore them to the manufaturer's default state and i will Use Kontakt's Master Volume, adjust it so that the levels average at about -12db with the peak around -6db.

if i'm not mistaken, the instrument volume slider is CC7, right ?

The reason I didn't mention the volume of your interface is because it has nothing to do with gain staging. Gain staging is all about setting proper levels along the signal path within your DAW. Your interface is a separate thing.

Now I understand that gain stagging and audio interface volume are two different things.

So, once I've correctly done the gain stagging, how do I equalize the volume of the different instruments (one instrument per instance), because some are louder than others even after the gain stagging is done. With the pre-gain ? with faders ??

I guess I will still have to turn down the loudest instruments and turn up the sound card.

Could you please tell me how to adjust the volume of the sound card and the monitors?

How can I avoid that an error creates a too loud sound e.g. loopback function or new virtual instrument with wrong settings?

thank you very much, sincerely

have a nice weekend
 
What brand and model of interface are you using?

What equipment are you using to connect your interface to your speakers?
 
hi

thanks for your response, my audio interface is MOTU m4, my monitors are Yamaha HS7, i use "jack cable", I'm not sure of the name in English so I left a picture.

jack.png

thanks
 
Hi, I wouldn't overcomplicate it too much. Turn down the loudest instrument(s) or library so that it's level with everything else.

Slap a limiter on the master channel and increase the gain until you can actually hear what's going on again at your normal speaker levels.

Just remember to disable the limiter once you've completed your arrangement and mix before mastering.
 
It's good to remember that with modern DAWs, you usually don't really have to worry about clipping inside Kontakt -- if your sample goes above 0db, you can just lower the audio track's volume, or even just the master track's volume. Here's a good video explanation of the phenomenon:

 
thank you for your answers,

if I understood correctly, putting the limiter on the master, allows to block a too loud sound that would be inadvertently emitted by a wrong setting, right ?

I've seen a lot of youtube videos, where people recommend not to exceed -18 dbfs, others -12dbfs, so now I don't really know what to think.

How much volume in percent do you set your audio interfaces and monitors to?

Thank you all
 
OK, this is actually a very important, and somewhat misunderstood topic. If there is interest I can write up a procedure to "align" your studio. I can even explain the whole VU vs dBu vs dBV vs dBFS mess.

Let me know if there is interest...
 
hi,

yes I'm very interested to know how to configure the different volumes of a studio, be it gain stagging (Kontakt, DAW, pre gain), audio interface and monitors, and this if possible while protecting against very loud sounds that can be produced by mistake, (e.g. new librarie badly set up, loopback) I need this information to be operational.

That would be very nice of you, thank you very much.
 
OK, this is actually a very important, and somewhat misunderstood topic. If there is interest I can write up a procedure to "align" your studio. I can even explain the whole VU vs dBu vs dBV vs dBFS mess.

Let me know if there is interest...
Also very interested in the topic and any guidance!
 
@darkneo57 I think a lot about this but currently do not have internet on my computer. Ping me in a day or two and I’ll be sure to elaborate.
 
Hi,

thank you for your kindness, we count on your advice and procedures.

Have a nice evening
 
Hi,

As this is a bit of a complex topic and I'm sure other people work in different ways and have different opinions, take everything I'm about to say with a grain of salt.

For me, the most important thing about a DAW template is dependable consistency. In other words, at the most basic level, I need to be able to trust that...
A: what I am hearing is what is actually there;
B: when I move a control, it responds how I think it should respond.

This means that each step of the process must be scrutinized, set, and tweaked before I put on my creative hat. The last thing I want to do when composing is route MIDI/audio or define key switches or set volume levels or any of that. I don't want to have to remember that library A is drier and louder than library B so I need to add reverb to A and volume to B to make them match better. I don't want to have to remember that library X controls dynamics via CC1 but library Y controls dynamics via CC11. I just want to write, play it in, and be done with it.

SETTING UP THE HARDWARE

So, I start by setting up my hardware—monitors/headphones, audio interface, room treatment, etc. Without this first step, I cannot trust anything else I hear. It's like making sure I'm wearing the correct prescription of glasses and not generic dark sunglasses before I try to paint a colorful picture.

So the first thing to do is make sure the physical space is exactly as it should be. There are many guides online for this; PreSonus has a handy one:


And here is another guide, a bit more in-depth:


The only thing I'd change about what they say in the PreSonus guide is that the equilateral triangle should form a point about 14-16 inches behind your head (which is what that second guide also says), not in the center of your head. Think about it this way: when the point is behind your head, your ears will perfectly line up with the "sides" of the triangle, and therefore be able to better have a sense of what is Left and what is Right; this is not possible if the point is somewhere in your hypothalamus!

Once you've set up your physical space, you will want acoustic treatment (and potentially room EQ). Why? Because music is something that happens in the frequency domain and the time domain. Acoustic treatment primarily treats the latter, and room EQ (like Sonarworks) primarily treats the former. This can make a HUGE difference. See:


If you had to choose one thing of the two, choose acoustic treatment. GIK Acoustics (linked just above) actually has a whole educational series of articles on the subject:


The important thing to note here is that it is a very scientific thing, and not something that can be achieved accidentally or with non-specialized materials. It's not very sexy, but it's perhaps the most important money you can spend—certainly more so than on new libraries!

Once your time domain is sorted out, you might want to consider room EQ a la Sonarworks:


This helps smooth things out a bit more, but is definitely more of an optional step that the acoustic treatment step.

Next thing is to calibrate your system. Again, PreSonus has a handy guide:


And this is another one I highly recommend to people:


Hearing damage starts around 90 dB, so 85 dB is usually the maximum recommended level. This is a good level for a cinema room, but if you're working in a smaller area like a spare bedroom (/using near-fields and/or headphones), the closeness of the walls (or ear cups) will make the apparent volume level louder, so to compensate the volume of your system must be lowered by a few dB (probably to the high-70s).

As mentioned in that latter link, THIS is your base, your home. You can venture louder or softer when you want to see how things sound there, but always return to this volume level. This is how you can learn to trust your system and your ears to know that you are hearing what you are hearing. Listening to recordings you know very well can help you learn your space/system at this calibrated level.

SETTING UP THE SOFTWARE

Here is where things get a little more opinionated, so again, salt!

It's best to set things up granularly from smallest to largest: articulation, instrument, instrument family, DAW template. In practice this is a bit more complex; every developer is different and might have things coded differently (even per instrument—it's astounding how inconsistent these things can be!), so it's important to know what is going on in each and every instrument. However, in general, in MIDI-land, value 90 is Unity. In Kontakt, CC7 (MIDI Volume) controls the main volume slider. For a given instrument, I like to set my basic 'long' articulation to this value. Because most libraries normalize their samples (so that everything has the same max amplitude), this can create scenarios in which, say, forte pizzicato is as loud as a fortissimo molto vibrato sustain. If the sustain is set to CC7 = 90, then I might set the pizzicato to CC7 = 56, so that it is dynamically appropriate to what it would behave like in real life. (This is a whole topic in and of itself...)

Once you've set the articulations for each instrument in the relative volumes you want, then balance the instruments' relative levels, first within families and then across the ensemble. For example: a flute in its low register is not going to be as loud as a trumpet in its high register, even if both are marked "forte." Here, I usually set these values with a gain plug-in so that my faders can remain at Unity. Here is also where (going back to our example) I add reverb to A and volume to B to make them match better.

Finally, I do mock-ups (with a score!) of ~30s segments of pieces I know well, in a variety of different styles and orchestrations, and see if the balancing worked. There is likely stuff to tweak (and honestly a template never crystallizes; it continues to evolve as needed).

Here is also where I normalize the way I control the instruments; going back to our example, I set a MIDI transformer so that even though library X controls dynamics via CC1 but library Y controls dynamics via CC11, I make CC1 control CC11 for library Y in the back end so that while each library "sees" what it wants to, I only have to learn/remember/master one control paradigm.

---

Hope this helps some! It's a bit broader than the question you asked, but I really don't know a way to answer without touching on all of this, since it's all interrelated.
 
Hi Kmaster,

I would like to thank you very much for your kindness, the time you gave, and the quality and clarity of the information you provided. It's a real pleasure. Respect! I wish you the best for your career.

I am French, so although my English level has improved significantly and the quality of the current online translators has improved, I think I will have a few questions coming up.

Thank you for everything, sincerely
 
hi,

for the step calibrate your system by setting the volume of the audio interface to unity gain and with the pink noise in the DAW, I wonder a lot. Indeed, I contacted the support service of my sound card motu M4 because there was no symbol for unity gain, they answered me that it was the max.

When I made the tests with my sound card at the max, I reach 80 Db on my monitors whereas they are at less than 5% of their maximum value. ( yamaha HS 7 ) Personally, and especially being very careful with my ears, it worries me a lot, I think I prefer to leave the volumes of my sound card and my monitors at 50%.

What should I do ?

Thanks
 
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