What's new

App or website for practicing score reading?

Hey guys, I was wondering if anyone knew of a resource that could help me recognise chords across a grand stave or even a full orchestral one. I’d like to get better at score study/reading.

Something like the exercise below but with feedback on whether I’m getting it right or not.

App or website for practicing score reading?

I’ve found exercises on musictheory but it’s just one stave and doesn’t include inversions.
 
Don't know about an app or anything like that, but I imagine there are analyses of all the Bach Chorales on the internet. So you can analyze a chorale and then check your work against them. Manual but probably more useful, especially if you play them on piano as well.
 
Don't know about an app or anything like that, but I imagine there are analyses of all the Bach Chorales on the internet. So you can analyze a chorale and then check your work against them. Manual but probably more useful, especially if you play them on piano as well.
Yeah that’s a good idea. I’m just mainly looking for some feedback so anything short of paying someone to check my work is a win. Thanks!
 
Yeah that’s a good idea. I’m just mainly looking for some feedback so anything short of paying someone to check my work is a win. Thanks!
You don't mention if you play an instrument or can sight read. Score reading is just reading with more staves. IMO Bach chorales are way better to study than stuff like the exercise you posted, because they are music (and b/c Bach is the alpha and omega of tonal music). I would avoid busy work, like the 'inversion number' - just be able to identify the root. Play the chorales as slowly as you have to at the piano. It's hard but gets better and pays so many dividends. When you are learning something this hard, for some (i.e. me) it's important to limit the task: start with bars 1-4, or 1-2. Or just play one voice; or just the bass and tenor, etc

Something else that helped me read scores better was sight reading at the piano in different clefs - i.e. beyond the grand stave. I had a book in conducting class many years ago with exercises in various clefs. You start with two, then add. There must be something like that out there now, and more.

Another reason for using Bach has to do with checking your work: you mainly check it with your ears. That's the whole point. You aren't doing math problems. It's a language. Just like a verbal language, you can learn it in a classroom or you can acquire it. The reality is that you do both, but the more acquiring the better.

Short answer: learn to sight read at the piano and read different clefs. And of course study scores of music you know well. Take the score to the piano and, pick out aspects you recognize.

Unless you are George Szell, it's a process to learn, a skill. Just chip away at it. Something else that helped me btw was learning how to write 4-part harmony a la Bach. You start with very strict rules and then slowly remove them.

Good luck
 
The non-free part of tonegym has something similar to what you might be looking for - it's called the Notationist - maybe also the Inversionist...

Whatever works is good. But it's worth keeping in mind just because there's an app or a drill you can do doesn't mean it's effective. With respect: if you ask how to learn to read scores - a very specialized skill - but you think you already know what the general answer is or ought to be (an app, a certain kind of exercise, a hack, a theory course) then maybe it's worth checking that assumption to make sure it's right. Otherwise the result can be disappointing - like taking 4 years of academic French in secondary school and then being speechless when you actually go to France! Context is everything, and the context here is the literature. Cheers
 
Whatever works is good. But it's worth keeping in mind just because there's an app or a drill you can do doesn't mean it's effective. With respect: if you ask how to learn to read scores - a very specialized skill - but you think you already know what the general answer is or ought to be (an app, a certain kind of exercise, a hack, a theory course) then maybe it's worth checking that assumption to make sure it's right. Otherwise the result can be disappointing - like taking 4 years of academic French in secondary school and then being speechless when you actually go to France! Context is everything, and the context here is the literature. Cheers
Oh - fully agree! I think you capture it very well - a drill is just a drill, almost like muscular or reflex training. Then there is comprehension - a whole different ball game. I did find drilling on the stave with apps helped me in one small way - it significantly reduced the 'look at the stave and name the note' time. It's also surprisingly low effort - but yep - fully agree - you get back what you put in, and drilling is low effort, low yield :thumbsup:
 
Last edited:
Oh - fully agree! I think you capture it very well - a drill is just a drill, almost like muscular or reflex training. Then there is comprehension - a whole different ball game. I did find drilling on the stave with apps helped me in one small way - it significantly reduced the 'look at the stave and name the note' time. It's also surprisingly low effort - but yep - fully agree - you get back what you put in, and drilling is low effort, low yield :thumbsup:
Absolutely! Well said. The OP was asking for an app or website, and I just wanted to point out that maybe he/she shouldn't assume that's what they want. I have a friend (a close acquaintance really) who is always trying different psychologists because she doesn't agree with what the shrink of the moment proposes, so she's always shopping around. But if you already know what the shrink should propose, why do you need them in the first place? Mental health, like music, is not really reducible to a transaction between client and provider, or some kind of hack. It's an inner thing that you have to cultivate. Lots of ways to do it, but no way around it. Cheers
 
Last edited:
Hey guys, thanks for the replies. To answer your question @jonnybutter I'm a guitarist, so sight reading hasn't really been a part of my musical journey at all. I do have my degree in music performance but that didn't have a lot of score reading, more so just chord charts and reading top line.

So here I am 15 years later and starting to write orchestral music/film music, but I feel like I've hit a wall with my harmony chops. As a guitarist, I mainly write chord progressions with movable chord shapes that all have the same architecture and I rarely use inversions or voice leading. After practicing piano and doing analysis by ear, I'm surprised and fascinated at all of the inversions and interesting chord voicing composers employ. Even with basic progressions like a I, V, vi, IV - I really love how composers can repeat that but make it seem fresh every rotation without continually adding layers upon layers to keep it seemingly captivating.

This leads me to want to analyse more scores but my speed at recognising the chords across 2 or more staves is really slow. I'm not looking for exercises to be my ticket to harmonic freedom but I thought if there were some online exercises I could do in my lunch break or short spurts of spare time it may assist in the long run and give me the confidence to read more scores.

I'm very open to diving into the Bach chorales though and I'm certainly not opposed to everything you mentioned. My main goal is to approach writing in a less vertical fashion. I've attempted to sight read some scores on the piano but it takes me so long to even read one bar. After reading your post though, I do feel more inspired and it's great to hear that it's not unusual to spend a few hours on 1 or 2 bars.

I really appreciate the post though @jonnybutter . It's responses like that, that make me really appreciate this forum. And thanks @tc9000 - I'll check that site out
 
Even with basic progressions like a I, V, vi, IV - I really love how composers can repeat that but make it seem fresh every rotation without continually adding layers upon layers to keep it seemingly captivating.
To me, it's all about the melody and different ways to harmonize it. If the Chorales are a little hard to read, get a standard hymnal (Protestant?) and read those. They are easier and have a lot of the same melodies Bach harmonized - they are 'classic' melodies. FWIW, no one thing helped me more than taking a few harmony lessons, writing a melody or taking a classic one, and then harmonizing it. Start with strict rules and loosen.


Glad if any of this is helpful! Good luck
 
Honestly I messed around previously with apps and flash cards and the progress was slow... until I discovered what helped me most of all, and I mean exponentially - sitting down in notation software and literally transcribing pieces I love, note by note. I've read stories about many famous composers would copy other composer's scores by hand, and there is so much to learn by doing this - not only will it improve your reading skills, but also your understanding of harmony, rhythm, and orchestration. At this point I think there is no better way to learn this stuff than studying what you enjoy– don't waste precious life on boring quizzes and exercises, look at masterpieces and break them down (start small if you want, chamber pieces and chorales), take notes along the way, and immediately put some of these new ideas into action through writing so you can learn by doing.
 
^^^Transcription right off recordings.

Plus, a tried and true method and something that has paid dividends for me (look up Nadia Boulanger and her students): take a choral or a short section of 2 to 4 part writing that you are intrigued by or just love, and sing the top line while playing the bass line at first. Then try singing the bass line and playing the top line and do this slowly at first singing in a register you are comfortable with. Don't worry if you are a slower reader, choral melodies are ideal because usually each line is fairly simple to sing or play on its own. The magic happens when they all happen together, and you can memorize eventually. Get to where you can play all the lines simultaneously while singing each line of the SATB through. What this does is gets the muscular/nervous response, coordination, staff notation, and inner ear all connected. The singing forces you to hear a line internally before playing it. And playing while singing forces you to also be simultaneously aware of the other line(s) which is essential to score reading. I've been doing this for a long while (on the keyboard, or just reading and listening internally) and now when I take a score I utilize these skills. Often, parts of scores are orchestrated from choral type harmony or similar so it is a very transferable skill. I'm not even a pianist, just started with playing one line slowly and singing the other line. You can start this a few minutes a day--like a daily mediation. It has paid dividends for me.

Also, if you are not already familiar a great voice leading exercise is playing voice leading on the keyboard with just simple I IV V triads in different combinations and keys, using the singing method described above. So play the bass note in the left hand, and then play a close position triad in the right hand staring with whatever position is comfortable, then for the next chord, carry over the common tones and whatever tone(s) are different move the shortest distance (usually a step). When playing IV to V move the RH opposite of the bass to avoid parallels in the voice leading. There is a lot of mileage in this simple exercise.
 
Last edited:
Honestly I messed around previously with apps and flash cards and the progress was slow... until I discovered what helped me most of all, and I mean exponentially - sitting down in notation software and literally transcribing pieces I love, note by note. I've read stories about many famous composers would copy other composer's scores by hand, and there is so much to learn by doing this - not only will it improve your reading skills, but also your understanding of harmony, rhythm, and orchestration. At this point I think there is no better way to learn this stuff than studying what you enjoy– don't waste precious life on boring quizzes and exercises, look at masterpieces and break them down (start small if you want, chamber pieces and chorales), take notes along the way, and immediately put some of these new ideas into action through writing so you can learn by doing.
Hey @wing, it's interesting that you jumped in on this thread, as it all started after I was reading some of your comments in the other thread "Is there a standard or established syllabus...".

You mentioned how counterpoint, and more specifically the book 'Music Theory and Composition', had helped you out of "chord progression-itis," and that really resonated with me in a powerful way. Even more so after checking out your work and seeing that you compose in modern styles, and we both have similar backgrounds as touring musicians. So, I thought if learning about counterpoint helped you so much, I'd give the book a shot.

Anyway, I started working through the book and was powering through the initial theory preface until I reached the exercise I posted above and saw that it was a massive flaw in my music theory skills and knowledge. That led me to posting here asking for assistance, and here we are.

Regarding your comment here, I've done a little bit of transcribing, but not into a notation program, just straight into Logic. I guess transcribing straight into Logic is a good way to improve mockup and production skills, whereas transcribing into notation software improves your score reading skills. That's a choice I'll have to make depending on the piece and where I think I can get the most value.

I hear over and over again how transcribing your favorites is the most direct way to go, but for some reason, I always find myself trying to find a more structured approach to improving my composition skills. Whether that's through a course, book, or YouTube video series. That might just be a modern-day problem stemming from consumerism or possibly just how my brain is wired and thinks it's the best way to learn.

Every time I do transcribe something I love, I'm blown away by how simple it is, but I struggle with adapting it into my own writing. I also constantly think if I were a better keyboard player, these interesting chord voicings would just come naturally to me, but to be honest, all my favorite music is pretty easy to play on piano, so that's probably just another excuse. I will definitely follow your advice of putting the lessons learned straight into practice and writing my own music.
Thanks for the comment - you're an inspiration!

And @Louie thank you for your comment too. I have to admit when I was reading through it, I felt a lot of internal resistance to your recommendation. There was a voice telling me that it'd be a waste of time and potentially embarrassing. But on reflection that probably means you're onto something and it's definitely an exercise I'll consider. Thanks
 

Download your favorite pre 1920-ish score and play along.
It usually easy for guitarist to nail the string and high woodwind stuff.
But if the score is not in C IE the woods, brass needs transposing it might take some time to figure it out. Especially those who transpose differently depending on clef used :O

This is what I did coming form guitar moving to orchestra.

Best of luck!
/Anders
 
potentially embarrassing
Remember it was one of mademoiselle Boulanger's teaching techniques, not mine. Aaron Copeland, Phillip Glass, and Quincy Jones were all her students as adults and they all had years of previous musical training, and they described a similar reaction to yours in interviews. Actually she often would have students demonstrate this in her group harmony classes in front of the other students (no pressure). The American's were all adult or perhaps late teen students who had already studied harmony, piano, and so forth. I'm pretty sure Glass may have even had at least one music degree before going to her. I think what these exercises are great at is connecting with the inner ear/voice in a way that is visceral and instant. Going from abstract to concrete in real time.
 
Last edited:
Hey @wing, it's interesting that you jumped in on this thread, as it all started after I was reading some of your comments in the other thread "Is there a standard or established syllabus...".

You mentioned how counterpoint, and more specifically the book 'Music Theory and Composition', had helped you out of "chord progression-itis," and that really resonated with me in a powerful way. Even more so after checking out your work and seeing that you compose in modern styles, and we both have similar backgrounds as touring musicians. So, I thought if learning about counterpoint helped you so much, I'd give the book a shot.

Anyway, I started working through the book and was powering through the initial theory preface until I reached the exercise I posted above and saw that it was a massive flaw in my music theory skills and knowledge. That led me to posting here asking for assistance, and here we are.

Regarding your comment here, I've done a little bit of transcribing, but not into a notation program, just straight into Logic. I guess transcribing straight into Logic is a good way to improve mockup and production skills, whereas transcribing into notation software improves your score reading skills. That's a choice I'll have to make depending on the piece and where I think I can get the most value.

I hear over and over again how transcribing your favorites is the most direct way to go, but for some reason, I always find myself trying to find a more structured approach to improving my composition skills. Whether that's through a course, book, or YouTube video series. That might just be a modern-day problem stemming from consumerism or possibly just how my brain is wired and thinks it's the best way to learn.

Every time I do transcribe something I love, I'm blown away by how simple it is, but I struggle with adapting it into my own writing. I also constantly think if I were a better keyboard player, these interesting chord voicings would just come naturally to me, but to be honest, all my favorite music is pretty easy to play on piano, so that's probably just another excuse. I will definitely follow your advice of putting the lessons learned straight into practice and writing my own music.
Thanks for the comment - you're an inspiration!

And @Louie thank you for your comment too. I have to admit when I was reading through it, I felt a lot of internal resistance to your recommendation. There was a voice telling me that it'd be a waste of time and potentially embarrassing. But on reflection that probably means you're onto something and it's definitely an exercise I'll consider. Thanks
That's awesome that what I said before and my work has resonated with you! That makes me feel like I'm not screaming into a void at least lol. Thank you for your kind words!

I feel I might have misleading in my post on this thread, since I myself am still getting through the book and doing the exercises on the regular – which might sound like a contradiction, but allow me to clarify what I meant in the above post – I meant more specifically stuff like apps, drills, flash cards, and endless exercises which can just become a distraction in and of itself. As a guitarist I'm sure you can appreciate that difference between a basic warm-up exercise, vs. those endless and rather unmusical "finger dexterity exercises" which can take up all your practice time and honestly are not all that applicable to real music (that is, you can just study real music and you'll learn those same skills anyway). So that is mostly what I was referring to, these apps which generate random notes for you to exercise reading or counterpoint, at that stage I would rather just move on to studying real music.

But that said, I still stand by that book, primarily enjoying that the chapters are short and the exercises are short – so when I say that, I'm not anti-exercise or anti-study obviously, I just wanted to suggest that you don't need to spend more money on apps and go down the rabbit hole of endless exercises and flash cards and what not, because trust me, I've been there and wasted a lot of time on it, time I wish I could get back!

Regarding transcribing into Logic vs. notation software, whatever makes you feel more comfortable - but if you do have a goal to read scores faster, definitely notating an actual score will improve your reading skills tenfold. One thing from the book I suggested, which has also helped me a lot, is early on he says to sing notes on the page. I'm an ok singer but always kind of reticent, but I took the advice, and boy I'm glad I did - it has improved my ear training and also my sight-reading in big ways too, because I'm able to make a much stronger sight-sound connection by forcing myself to 'hear' what the notes sound like before even touching an instrument, which is really cool. I'm still not awesome at this skill but doing it every day has really been paying off and I'm noticing lately when I look at a score, the ability to kind of 'hear it' is starting to reveal itself more and more!

But if your goal isn't necessarily to read notation or read scores, I don't think there's any issue with doing transcription in Logic that way. Also I'm possibly not entirely using the word transcription correctly, I also meant hand-copying scores from the written page (so in addition to doing it by ear, it's helpful if you wish to read scores to actually read and re-write them).

With transcribing and adapting to your own writing, I think the best advice I can give is to literally take concrete notes about things you notice:

- What is the harmony doing? How does the composer or songwriter treat inversions and chord voicings? (helpful to run a brief harmonic analysis, just writing the chords)
- Are there any interesting extended chords? Chromatic alterations? Modulations?
- If you spot the key, is it a traditional diatonic use of major or minor key? Or is it modal?
- Are there interesting scales appearing? Use of a colorful note, or maybe pentatonic scales?
- Does the composer start and end the entire piece diatonically in a resolved fashion to the tonic chord? What about at the end of cadences, or end of phrases or sections? Or do they switch it up and modulate elsewhere? How do they treat the relationship to the relative major or minor? What about the dominant V chord, is that used in a particular way, do we modulate to the scale based on the dominant perhaps? Or any other scale?
- Is there something happening with the rhythm that sticks out to you? Maybe a cool alternation between slow and fast notes, dotted notes or triplets or something unexpected about it? Polyrhythms or interesting meters?
- How does the tempo affect the feel of this piece?
- Is there interplay with the melody between sections, counterpoint, call and response, canon/repetition, layering, doubling, mirroring?
- If it's an orchestral piece, how does the composer orchestrate sections? Melodies vs. accompaniment, doubling, treatment of thirds and sixths etc. (Simple notes are helpful like, "I really love how they doubled the melody on trombone and cello, but by 6ths")
- Lastly, and most importantly, what is your favorite part, the thing which sticks out to you - and in short analyze why you think it grabs you every time.

I usually open up a notepad and save notes like this. It has really helped me to have a concrete analysis of things I notice. I will then later review these notes and think about how I can apply them to my own writing, whether literally (borrowing chord or scale ideas) or abstractly (borrowing ideas around mood and feeling).

Hope that all helps clarify what I meant about all those exercise apps vs. studying from the book (which I only spend a few minutes per day or sometimes every few days haha). I didn't actually realize the image you posted above was from the book – to be fair, it helps that I have played piano and cello for awhile so I went into that book able to read that by sight, but I would re-iterate what I said in the post before that my reading skills exploded once I started copying other scores down (like easier Mozart, chamber pieces, chorales), and just trying to show up consistently, even if that means just 10 mins a day.
 
Last edited:
Back
Top Bottom