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APD/SL *** Drama Spinoff

Fleer

Feeding the Trolls
My point exactly, rrichard63. If we can’t discuss software from developers that once helped us out or even gave us a coupon or freebie in the process, then this forum would probably come to a standstill. Over the last five years, ever since I found the time to play with music software, I’ve had many support tickets solved, and some of these solutions included a coupon, upgrade or freebie. Surely the sweetest was when Spitfire Audio decided to compensate me for the retirement of one of their older libraries with a free copy of a new one. Similar solutions came from other developers I listed in an earlier post, and we should respect them for offering solutions in the first place. This doesn’t prevent us from posting opinions, as long as we are sincere about it. And such is a question of personal morality.
I love it when VSTBuzz comes up with a sweet deal, and I’ll show my enthusiasm whenever. Same goes for APD. And, to bring this thread back on track, same goes for SampleLogic Xosphere 2, which I do prefer to the original one because of its more generous ambient focus. But I do not prefer it to Omnisphere 2 for instance, as I have written before, since Omni2 is my holy grail now. Hope this helps.
 

dzilizzi

I know nothing
I've seen Fleer get really enthusiastic about everything. I've also questioned it at times, but all the pianos he's rec'd have been good. I do think twice about his rec's for synths and things like Xosphere, but that is more because I've realized his taste is not quite mine in those areas.

I've gotten free stuff from developers, either because they offered it free to everyone, it was offered free with something I bought, or because, like Fleer, something has gone wrong and they have given me something free as an apology maybe? I won't say anything about it because they asked me not to. It does make me like them more because I appreciate their customer support. And I big fan of their stuff before that happened.

I also appreciate APD and VSTBuzz, though I buy from APD a little more because VSTBuzz does more synths and beats than I will ever use.

I did pick up Xosphere on sale. And I really appreciate that Sample Logic is letting us use APD dollars to pay for a portion of the Xoshpere 2 purchase. Because I have a lot of APD dollars..... That's all I get from them. :)
 

jtnyc

Senior Member
Unfortunately, I'm afraid I have to agree with @thereus on this. It's simple enough to write something like the following: "I do (or do not) receive any form of compensation, direct or indirect, for anything I write about Product X." And "I do (or do not) know the developer(s) of Product X personally." Unless I missed them, @Fleer has not written any sentences like these, anywhere is this rather long sub-thread.
No he has not. It's a total word salad. A three card monty of responses. Never a simple direct answer to thereus's question. I stopped taking the opinions of fleer and ryan99 seriously ages ago. Bump after bump of non detailed hype, posting a simple "awesome deal" or "love it" after a thread has been inactive for a day or longer. I just don't take them seriously.

Edit - Sorry I didn't realize this was a commercial thread so I deleted my other statements regarding SL -
 
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Fleer

Feeding the Trolls
I've seen Fleer get really enthusiastic about everything. I've also questioned it at times, but all the pianos he's rec'd have been good. I do think twice about his rec's for synths and things like Xosphere, but that is more because I've realized his taste is not quite mine in those areas.

I've gotten free stuff from developers, either because they offered it free to everyone, it was offered free with something I bought, or because, like Fleer, something has gone wrong and they have given me something free as an apology maybe? I won't say anything about it because they asked me not to. It does make me like them more because I appreciate their customer support. And I big fan of their stuff before that happened.

I also appreciate APD and VSTBuzz, though I buy from APD a little more because VSTBuzz does more synths and beats than I will ever use.

I did pick up Xosphere on sale. And I really appreciate that Sample Logic is letting us use APD dollars to pay for a portion of the Xoshpere 2 purchase. Because I have a lot of APD dollars..... That's all I get from them. :)
You’re right, dzilizzi, our musical taste somewhat differs. Like you I’m a piano aficionado first and foremost, but I also love combining orchestral and synth sounds in my palette. Hence my pendant towards Omnisphere and Xosphere, complementing libraries like Albion V Tundra, Heavyocity Novo, Output Exhale and Analog Strings. Those are still among my favorites. Love playing with them as they seem to unleash my creative juices :)
 

Mike Greene

Senior Member
Moderator
I'm out of town with very bad internet access, so I can't read most of this, and therefore can't do anything definitive at the moment. It may be time for something to be done, though, because things have looked a bit suspicious for a while.

It doesn't help that I don't see a response from Joe in this thread. (Although again, my ability to read through this is hampered, so maybe I missed it.) The question of whether Fleer (or anyone else) is ever rewarded is a very simple one and I think the membership is entitled to an answer to that.

Anyone with hard evidence, please PM me (or preferably email me.) I'll try to sort things out when I return later next week.
 

chillbot

Sock Muppet
Thanks Mike, would love you to sort things out and solve this once and for all.
Your responses have been a bit roundabout on the topic.

I think all it would take to "sort things out" would be to say definitively, "I have received free products from such and such" or "I have never received anything free from such and such". I don't get the feeling that anyone here would judge you either way, it's just something factual that is nice to know when pondering a product and reviews of said product. Even if it has nothing to do with the current product we're discussing, even if it was just one tiny thing somewhere along the way for "helping out"... the circumstances are not relevant. It's why you see so many posters that say "NOTE: I have received free products from such and such". In all of your responses so far it just feels a bit blurry.
 

Musician32

Active Member
Fleer is no shill. He posts or comments offers from almost all developers. He posts or comments not only APD or VST buzz deals. He brought a lot of good deals to my attention from many different developers.
 

chillbot

Sock Muppet
Here are some more shrills / sock puppets you might want to have a look into. @mouse @chillbot and the newest VI control member to post in this thread @anothermember Welcome to VI anothermember lol. The irony of shrills / sock puppets destined to cause problems with our commercial announcements
?

Not sure what you're talking about, I love Sample Logic. Here is a list of Sample Logic libraries I own: A.I.R., Synergy, The Elements, Morphestra, Morphestra Generations, Cinematic Guitars 1, Cinematic Guitars 2, Cinematic Guitars Infinite, Cinematic Keys, Rumble, Fanfare, Assault, Havoc, Impakt, Thunder Springs, Cyclone, Gamelan, Arpology, Bohemian, Xosphere, Expeditions, Rhythmology, Trailer Xpressions. I may be one of your better customers.

[NOTE: I have never received free products from anyone, sadly.]
 

gamma-ut

Active Member
Hey Joe, can you add me to your list of shills and sockpuppets? I'm also an SL customer who's a bit bored of the "been waiting for this/it's so great/everything's so great" action around these threads.
 

Fleer

Feeding the Trolls
Fleer is no shill. He posts or comments offers from almost all developers. He posts or comments not only APD or VST buzz deals. He brought a lot of good deals to my attention from many different developers.
Thank you, I appreciate your objective perspective as we clearly don't know each other. I am no shill and I don’t accept rewards or compensation. Also, I don’t know any of the guys from VSTBuzz or APD personally, but I do appreciate these two companies for listing some of the best deals I’ve come across on a regular basis. In fact I don’t know anybody in this business personally. I just love deals and post whenever I see one that interests me, hoping that other people will chime in to give me perspective. If a thread runs dead when I’m still interested, I’ll post again with the same hope.

So I reiterate: no rewards, no compensation.

But I am unhappy with the way some people here participate while not reading my posts, particularly when they use several accounts and hide behind them or even delete their own posts by the dozen (which luckily can be established by searching them). By the way, I do believe @chillbot is OK.
I must say I'm quite amused by this thread as I got to know certain members a bit better. I have only one name and one account.

Again, no rewards or compensation.

I did however receive a limited number of coupons or freebies over all those years as I have explained. And many of us did, as they confirmed in this thread. I already pointed out I did get one by Fluffy and Spitfire. And just last week I got a free upgrade from IK because my T-RackS didn’t function right. All of them in good support. And maybe they know me from a forum and appreciate my sincerity. But never, never will I let this influence what I post, except maybe by confirming that they indeed offer good support and by mentioning the coupon or freebie I got from it.

Finally, in an attempt to get back on track, nothing ever (needed) from SampleLogic. I'm sorry that their commercial thread got so derailed. But I do love their stuff, like Xosphere 2. And if they ever want to send me a freebie for all this trouble, I’ll gladly mention that here, if and when I’d post about it.
 

playz123

Senior Member
As a neutral observer of this discussion, and a purchaser of many of SL’s products, including Xosphere 2, Joe, may I respectfully suggest that instead of an angry response and finger pointing, it may be beneficial if you actually address the concerns raised and questions asked as well. It appears Fleer ran into the same problems when, at first, apparently it appeared he was skirting around the issues and not actually providing answers that addressed the points raised.

In any case, I am enjoying Xosphere 2, and am aware of how much work went into creating it. I’m slowly working my way through the presets first, and am very grateful for the tagging you have done, making selecting a specific type of preset for a project somewhat easier. Once I have time to familiarize myself with the other features of the library as well, I’m sure I’ll have a better appreciation of its additional capabilities. So far, most pleased with my purchase. Cheers.
 
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thereus

Active Member
Sample logic,

I rather object to being called a pot-stirrer by you here. I am one of your customers and have no connection to any sellers on VI-control.

There is no negative energy. I don't believe what I have asked is toxic or ill-spirited. Quite the opposite.

I simply want to know whether the positive comments are reliable or whether there is a little astro-turfing going on. It is hardly an unreasonable thing to ask. Your response gives me further pause, to be honest. You seem more interested in ensuring that your commercial campaigns are not derailed by people asking legitimate questions than in providing reassurance to your customers that you are not trying to use underhand techniques as part of those campaigns.

thereus




Wow this got toxic and ill spirited.

Lots of negative energy.

Sorry was on family vacation with the kids these last few days.
@Mike Greene feel free to contact me via email if you need to re-discuss all of this again. I feel as though every time we try and promote something in the commercial or deal thread it often gets met with strategic pot-sturring from the same few key members. Since we are polluting my commercial post of our product sale and releases set to spread toxicity. Here are some more shrills / sock puppets you might want to have a look into. @mouse @chillbot and the newest VI control member to post in this thread @anothermember Welcome to VI anothermember lol. The irony of shrills / sock puppets destined to cause problems with our commercial announcements

I feel this is truly unfair to the developers who are trying to post commercial news and deals to be dragged into this pitch fork drama squad.
Isn't the entire mechanism premise and root of the Deal and Commercial threads to be set forth towards developers promoting their latest releases and deals? I do not understand why these same members bring these same topics back every time we post something with efforts to cause this same drama. Should not this be discussed in threads somewhere else and not making our sale out to be all toxic? Again, Mike I hope you will do what is right to clean this up and I am open to an email if you want to go down the same discussion we already resolved in the past.
 
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thereus

Active Member
Ok, so no negativity, toxicity etc. just straightforward questions to Sample Logic / APD.

1. Do you or your employees, associates or friends use user accounts on VI-Control to promote your deals or products either directly or with "enthusiastic comments or reviews etc." without it being made clear to the forum that those accounts are under your control or influence? Has this ever been the case?

2. Do you provide discounts / free product / payment / other benefits to users who are enthusiastic about your products or deals in the forum in order to influence forum comments directly or indirectly? Has this ever been the case?

3. Do your campaigns involve having users or accounts ask "general/background questions" on the forum ahead of releases to make the release seem timely or more topical? Has this ever been the case?

Have you done any of these things on other sites/forums where your products/deals are discussed?

In short, do you use what is commonly known as astroturfing to promote your products or improve sales?

One final question. Would you support a VI-Control crackdown on these activities? Would this make you less or more likely to post/advertise here?

It would be interesting to hear from other developers also on these questions.

thereus
 

sostenuto

Big NKS Fan !
If every creator, reviewer, critic, commenter here posts statements of absolutely no compensation, gifting, etc., etc., of any kind ..,,, with every post, this Forum will be flooded with repetitive, questionable content which may likely make VI-C unusable by many. Almost all recent posting has been OT and with proper Moderation would have been censored /censured. @MG vacation noted, but this has been a clear effort by specific posters to hammer the same Thread OT point ad nauseum.
If Forum ownership / management finds this acceptable, then it should be clearly and openly posted here. with recommendations that this continue.
It is blatantly obvious that a reasonable, honorable point has been used to target a specific Member, and harass him repeatedly. This current and interesting Thread has been sadly overrun by individuals with little respect for the most obvious Thread posting guidelines.

(edit) noted welcome Thread change, but current perspectives remain.
 
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jtnyc

Senior Member
Wow this got toxic and ill spirited.

Lots of negative energy.

Sorry was on family vacation with the kids these last few days.
@Mike Greene feel free to contact me via email if you need to re-discuss all of this again. I feel as though every time we try and promote something in the commercial or deal thread it often gets met with strategic pot-sturring from the same few key members. Since we are polluting my commercial post of our product sale and releases set to spread toxicity. Here are some more shrills / sock puppets you might want to have a look into. @mouse @chillbot and the newest VI control member to post in this thread @anothermember Welcome to VI anothermember lol. The irony of shrills / sock puppets destined to cause problems with our commercial announcements

I feel this is truly unfair to the developers who are trying to post commercial news and deals to be dragged into this pitch fork drama squad.
Isn't the entire mechanism premise and root of the Deal and Commercial threads to be set forth towards developers promoting their latest releases and deals? I do not understand why these same members bring these same topics back every time we post something with efforts to cause this same drama. Should not this be discussed in threads somewhere else and not making our sale out to be all toxic? Again, Mike I hope you will do what is right to clean this up and I am open to an email if you want to go down the same discussion we already resolved in the past.
Wow! What an overblown response, and loaded with accusations and falsehoods to boot. Actually it’s more of a defense by offense than a response. And who is Sample Logic defending anyway? Themselves? No they are defending fleer. Why? Why wouldn’t they just say, no he doesn’t represent us in any capacity and we don’t give him free products. Instead they chime in with an all out assult on anyone who questioned fleer at all, trying to define and lump everyone who did into a mob with an agenda. I mean, I don't know, this just doesn't look good. Again, defense by offense and avoiding going on record about the actual question at hand. To me it points to a strong possibility that they do have some sort of relationship beyond developer/customer.
 

Fleer

Feeding the Trolls
OK, jtnyc, time for you to knock it. What you're suggesting is over the top. I've got no personal relationship with SampleLogic other than being its customer.
 

Fleer

Feeding the Trolls
If every creator, reviewer, critic, commenter here posts statements of absolutely no compensation, gifting, etc., etc., of any kind ..,,, with every post, this Forum will be flooded with repetitive, questionable content which may likely make VI-C unusable by many. Almost all recent posting has been OT and with proper Moderation would have been censored /censured. @MG vacation noted, but this has been a clear effort by specific posters to hammer the same Thread OT point ad nauseum.
If Forum ownership / management finds this acceptable, then it should be clearly and openly posted here. with recommendations that this continue.
It is blatantly obvious that a reasonable, honorable point has been used to target a specific Member, and harass him repeatedly. This current and interesting Thread has been sadly overrun by individuals with little respect for the most obvious Thread posting guidelines.

(edit) noted welcome Thread change, but current perspectives remain.
Cheers, sostenuto, much appreciated.
 
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thereus

Active Member
@sostenuto,

I am afraid we will have to agree to disagree. The potential use of astroturfing by a developer is very much on point to a commercial post from that developer.

Anyway, Mike has moved these comments to their own thread


which makes sense while it gets resolved. Let's see where it lands.

thereus


If every creator, reviewer, critic, commenter here posts statements of absolutely no compensation, gifting, etc., etc., of any kind ..,,, with every post, this Forum will be flooded with repetitive, questionable content which may likely make VI-C unusable by many. Almost all recent posting has been OT and with proper Moderation would have been censored /censured. @MG vacation noted, but this has been a clear effort by specific posters to hammer the same Thread OT point ad nauseum.
If Forum ownership / management finds this acceptable, then it should be clearly and openly posted here. with recommendations that this continue.
It is blatantly obvious that a reasonable, honorable point has been used to target a specific Member, and harass him repeatedly. This current and interesting Thread has been sadly overrun by individuals with little respect for the most obvious Thread posting guidelines.
 
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