APD/SL *** Drama Spinoff

sostenuto

Big NKS Fan !
thereus,
I think I have been perfectly clear. I only post because I like (or dislike) stuff, not because of whichever benefits you may think of. Even if we got a compensation from a support guy or a freebie for the trouble, as I know many of us have over the years, this wouldn’t make our posts less sincere. I would never post for any reason other than my enthusiasm and GAS.
Have taken your Posts in precisely this context for long time. Never any reason to assume otherwise.
Appreciate your frequent Replies when I inquire.

The main 'compensation' issue is a relevant one, yet with so many participants here, it would be challenging to try to sort B/W in each case.

Looking forward to your ongoing presence and enthusiasm ! :thumbsup:

BTW _ funds always an issue, and wrestling with Xosphere 2 or The Orchestra Complete. Both seem strong offerings, while notably different applications. :unsure:
 
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Fleer

Feeding the Trolls
Being clear about receiving free products before giving even your honest opinion is pretty damned important imo. People should ALWAYS be clear that about sponsored content/free stuff from developers before reviewing or recommending said product, no matter how sincere you are.
I wasn’t referring to that, but to a problem that may have arisen in a support ticket, after the purchase of course.
 

Fleer

Feeding the Trolls
Have taken your Posts in precisely this context for long time. Never any reason to assume otherwise.
Appreciate your frequent Replies when I inquire.

The main 'compensation' issue is a relevant one, yet with so many participants here, it would be challenging to try to sort B/W in each case.

Looking forward to your ongoing presence and enthusiasm ! :thumbsup:

BTW _ funds always an issue, and wrestling with Xosphere 2 or The Orchestra Complete. Both seem strong offerings, while notably different applications. :unsure:
Have taken your Posts in precisely this context for long time. Never any reason to assume otherwise.
Appreciate your frequent Replies when I inquire.

The main 'compensation' issue is a relevant one, yet with so many participants here, it would be challenging to try to sort B/W in each case.

Looking forward to your ongoing presence and enthusiasm ! :thumbsup:

BTW _ funds always an issue, and wrestling with Xosphere 2 or The Orchestra Complete. Both seem strong offerings, while notably different applications. :unsure:
Difficult decision, depending on funds, I think I’d first get The Orchestra Complete, knowing your musical interests.
Thanks for your support, sostenuto, sometimes that kind of talk gets to me. I do remember getting a bundle freebie from Fluffy Audio back in 2017 when they had a sale, but that didn’t influence my perspective at all. I’m a one account guy with one account name. Guess this makes me vulnerable. Almost decided to leave the forum.
But I won’t, ‘cause of guys like you :)
 
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thereus

Active Member
The issue for me, is that somebody receiving a free product because of the positive review that they give to a company is likely to show a different level of enthusiasm to somebody who has paid full price. Their comments are in a different category.

I try to make judgements about purchases before I buy and to some degree I use comments here to make those judgements. If somebody expresses a lot of enthusiasm, I might mistake that to be because of the value-for-money of the full price product that that writer has experienced instead of being the enthusiasm encouraged by the big carrot of free stuff.

Fleer has come close enough in his last reply to clarifying which side of that divide his posts occupy, for which I thank him. We can now make judgements about purchases accordingly.

Both kinds of enthusiasm are ok as is Fleer's mixture of the two. I only ask that he and others make their positions clear in future enthusiastic posts so that others will be able to make such a judgement in possession of all the facts. You risk misleading people otherwise, which is just not ok.

Thereus
 

Fleer

Feeding the Trolls
I think I have been very clear and sincere, thereus, but have you? Have you ever received a freebie or a rebate after contacting support with an issue? And if you did get some kind of compensation offer from support, monetary or in kind as they often do, did you accept it and then come to the forum to tell us about it? No, you did not, as far as I can tell from your posts. I did, once in a while. Recently I got a compensation upgrade from iZotope support to alleviate a problem I was having. Did that change my view of their products as I discussed them before and will continue to discuss them here? No it didn’t.
Still waiting for that apology.
 

KarlHeinz

Senior Member
I would never post for any reason other than my enthusiasm and GAS.
Fleer, I believe thats true, like with sostenuto we have met in many threads and as I tend to that entusiasm too I can really understand I think.

And as I have posted before in another thread dealing with this "shilling" cause I was really unsure about it for myself cause I have gotten a discount coupon too in same situations while posting here, communicate with support, sometimes doing a little betatesting etc.. But what (only) matters for me in the end: I have never written anything that was not my own true opinion whether good or bad, coupon or not. And of course never ever get any money for just posting what is my honest believe. And I just believe Fleer does the same. Maybe a little different in case that I dont know nobody really personal but I think nobody is to blame for that.

I must say it would really shake my believe in this forum if something like this would be true. But on the other hand as a hobby musician I dont know much of this business (like that audio plugin deals and samplelogic has the same owner for example)
 

Fleer

Feeding the Trolls
And as I have posted before in another thread dealing with this "shilling" cause I was really unsure about it for myself cause I have gotten a discount coupon too in same situations while posting here, communicate with support, sometimes doing a little betatesting etc.. But what (only) matters for me in the end: I have never written anything that was not my own true opinion whether good or bad, coupon or not. And of course never ever get any money for just posting what is my honest believe. And I just believe Fleer does the same. Maybe a little different in case that I dont know nobody really personal but I think nobody is to blame for that.
Thanks, KarlHeinz, and like you I use my own name. Still, I don't know you (or "Joe") personally. As you wrote, I don't express anything except my true opinion, whether good or bad, coupon or not. Sometimes I even got stuff free or almost free because of a coupon in my account (as was the case with iZotope) but this doesn't change my views. I think all of us pay different prices for stuff, depending on coupons or educational rebates and such. I do remember even getting 8Dio libraries for (almost) free, as was explained in the 8Dio thread, but again, this didn't change my perspective.
 
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thereus

Active Member
I think I have been very clear and sincere, thereus, but have you? Have you ever received a freebie or a rebate after contacting support with an issue? And if you did get some kind of compensation offer from support, monetary or in kind as they often do, did you accept it and then come to the forum to tell us about it? No, you did not, as far as I can tell from your posts. I did, once in a while. Recently I got a compensation upgrade from iZotope support to alleviate a problem I was having. Did that change my view of their products as I discussed them before and will continue to discuss them here? No it didn’t.
Still waiting for that apology.
Fleer

I thought it quite clear. You are still very much in the incentivised-to-be-enthusiastic camp in my book. You have not answered my original question, only spoke around it. You receive free stuff for support problems (not my experience at all). You haven’t said that that is the only reason for the apparently large quantity of sample libraries you have received for relatively little money. I am not insisting you do. I am merely telling you how your declining to do so informs my decisions about basing purchasing on your comments. Your apology is contingent on that also, not that I see an apology from me being that useful for you, but it is honestly offered.

Take xosphere2, for instance. Have you paid for it through the regular channels? Full price, in this offer or otherwise discounted?
 

Fleer

Feeding the Trolls
I (often enough) pay full price, unless when there’s a rebate or special offer, as all of us do. And as you can do now with the ongoing sale. That doesn’t influence my views, as stated often enough. I’m even ready to change my account handle to “Offers, rebates nor freebies influence my perspective”.
But come to think of it, going through some of these posts, I find strange resemblances. And strange coincidences. Such as a new account called “anothermember” who obviously is just another developer using a second account to tilt a commercial thread. Quite remarkable. I’m no developer but I have only one account, and that’s how it should be.
And yeah, I got Xosphere 2 through regular channels, and discounted, as I presume you did too.
 

rrichard63

Perpetual Novice
You have not answered my original question, only spoke around it.
Unfortunately, I'm afraid I have to agree with @thereus on this. It's simple enough to write something like the following: "I do (or do not) receive any form of compensation, direct or indirect, for anything I write about Product X." And "I do (or do not) know the developer(s) of Product X personally." Unless I missed them, @Fleer has not written any sentences like these, anywhere is this rather long sub-thread.
 

Fleer

Feeding the Trolls
Ah, rrichard63, was waiting for you to turn up. And I wish you’d read this entire, slightly amusing thread.

Well, I do not. And just for fun changed my handle from “no method” to “no compensation”. So now I hope you and yours will declare the same.
 

Jdiggity1

Stroking The Frog
Moderator
At this point i don't think it's really necessary for Fleer to "come clean", is it?
We've essentially got evidence in this thread to suggest that multiple people have been compensated in some way by SL / APD for whatever reason (bumping threads? leaving favorable reviews? all of the above?). And going back through threads it's fairly easy to see who.
The posts, attachments, and links shared by 'anothermember' are enough for anybody to be able to 'read between the lines'.
Fleer, maybe you are just an innocent customer who gets a bit excited about deals and library releases, but when you're posting on the same threads across vic, reddit, 'Beyond My DAW' (was this a new one to anybody else, btw?) writing the exact same comments, particularly open-ended questions like "what are people's thoughts on this?" when a thread loses momentum, praising everything as "the best" and "my favorite", when your post history from the last 3 months on reddit is 90% on APD and SL related threads (completely ignoring all the other fantastic deals from other vendors).... I dunno man. Whether you intend it or not, this is shill-y behavior, and I personally can't give any weight to anything you have to say because of it.
Your enthusiasm might be completely of your own accord and in no way is in hopes of receiving more freebies or goodies from developers, I could accept that (maybe), but the point is that it simply does not look that way.
I'm sorry for staying "off topic" in a safe-space commercial announcements thread, but... actually ya know what, I'm not. If SampleLogic are going to encourage the pollution of several forums via shill posts and under-the-table deals (allegedly), I think I'm ok with being off-topic in their commercial announcement.
 

Fleer

Feeding the Trolls
@Jdiggity1
I can only be as clear as I am. Read my post just above yours and my account handle.
Yeah I know, I'm a deals fanatic. I love to get great deals. The two best platforms to get these deals are clearly APD and VSTBuzz. So I follow them, wherever I can, as I love to read about those deals before I get them. And I post in order to share my views as well as read others'. Maybe I shouldn't be so open about it. Maybe I shouldn't use the same name all over. But that's just me. Again, let me be absolutely clear. Did I ever get a discount or rebate or even freebie from a developer's support department? Hell, yeah, I'm sure many of us have been compensated that way. Did I even get a freebie, just because it's me? Yep, just got one from IK because I'm "a good customer". But do I accept such compensation to change my views on a product? No, I don't.
 

Fleer

Feeding the Trolls
Let me give you a recent example, thereus, as you keep saying you want to apologize but you don’t.
Last week I had a problem with IK’s activation system not allowing me to fully use their individual T-RackS plugins, recently purchased by me, myself and I. After reaching out, they decided to grant me a new (free) T-RackS in order to solve the problem. Is that a freebie? Yes. Am I grateful for this solution? Yes. Does it influence my take on their products? No. But it does influence my respect for the company. Quod erat demonstrandum.
 

sostenuto

Big NKS Fan !
Interesting inconsistencies in decisions for 'Drama Zone'. Two individuals with incredibly judgemental opinions continue driving this Thread far from its origins.
Recently experienced this and promptly kicked into Drama Zone.
Even these choices are arbitrary at best.
 
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rrichard63

Perpetual Novice
I hope you and yours will declare the same.
For the record, I have never received anything of value from a developer in exchange for a favorable comment or review. I did once receive a free copy of a plugin in exchange for bug reports and feature requests I made as a beta tester. That was a product that I have never had an occasion to mention on VI-Control. And, like Fleer, I have gotten discounts and coupons as part of tech support.

Also for the record, I personally know exactly one person who works in the music software industry in any capacity (for Propellerhead). I have, oddly enough, never discussed any of Propellerhead's products with him. I have commented on Reason once or twice on VI-Control without mentioning that relationship, but I can honestly say that the fact that I like him personally has nothing to do with my opinion of Reason.