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Anyone Else Think 8dio Adagio Violas Kick Ass?

ism

Senior Member
My bad grammer … not referring to Thread overall but recent detailed, technical posts.

Just to be difficult ... i’m going to debate that these even the recent technical posts have been especially negative ....

My premise is always that the limitations of a library are often a consequence of design decisions, and insofar as the strengths rest upon these decision, the strengths also hinge on the weaknesses.

Properly understanding the limitations of the solo viola, for instance, is critical for understanding where it’s strengths lie and finding the sweet spots etc. And in working through why is sometimes doesn't give good results, I was at the same time focusing in on where its strengths actually lie. And in this sense, trying to figure out why the 2 or 3 demos we have do sound good, and why I struggle to reproduce this success.

And conversely, repeatedly citing two or three demo lines that sound good doesn’t necessarily in itself give a lot of insight into the true strengths of the library. (At worst - and 8dio marketing is a case study in this - it can as much serve to obfuscate what the instrument is about.)

Admittedly, the solo viola is a particularly extreme example. But there is a general principle here.
 
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ism

Senior Member
Do you have some comparisons of the same lines between the Adagio/Agitato instruments and the Anthology ones? I'm personally more interested in the ensembles than the solo or divisi instruments, but I can't find like for like comparisons for either.

I personally feel that, for what I want it for, buying into Anthology is going to be simpler to integrate with Cinematic Studio Strings and my workflow than Adagio will be (as you suggest). Having said that, there's a few patches and articulations in the Adagio Violas that I might go the other way, depending on the comparisons in sound.

I can share a comparison if you think that would be helpful.

But I'm curious, given that you have CSS, what you're additionally looking to get from Anthology?

Anthology does have a different, and very lovely sound from CSS, which I tend to think of as a kind of "Hollywood intensity" to CSS's controlled "studio gorgeousness" .

So in Anthology you have this different sound, as well as the dynamic arc patches and the divisi. But otherwise, Anthology feels like an awkward attempt to crush Adagio/Agitato into the CSS business model. It's partially successful, in the it's much easier to use. But it comes at the loss of a great deal of the character and expressiveness of Adagio/Agitato.

CSS was designed form the start to invest all its energies in superb crossfading. And its hardly a surprise that Anthology, which whatever the marketing claims, was designed with a very different philosophy in mind, can't compete wth CSS or SCS and other libraries on a technical level.
 

sostenuto

Big NKS Fan !
Just to be difficult ... i’m going to debate that these even the recent technical posts have been especially negative ....
My premise is always that the limitations of a library are often a consequence of design decisions, and insofar as the strengths rest upon these decision, the strengths also hinge on the weaknesses.

Properly understanding the limitations of the solo viola, for instance, is critical for understanding where it’s strengths lie and finding the sweet spots etc. And in working through why is sometimes doesn't give good results, I was at the same time focusing in on where its strengths actually lie.
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Admittedly, the solo viola is a particularly extreme example. But there is a general principle here.
I'm fine with this, as trying to digest your extensive level of String (Viola) knowledge is far beyond my abilities to understand fully. Naturally, I tend to pick up bits and pieces which do not reflect the whole context in which they are presented.

I will continue to read, and reread, to learn what I can for future reference. My current situation is a true dilemma, as continuing work with String libraries now on-board, reinforces learning flawed implementations and trusting them to be correct. This current set of focused (viola) Posted analyses, while learning Adagio Violas and Anthology, may improve awareness of issues discussed.

Thanks and regards
 
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Land of Missing Parts

flibbertigibbet
Do you have some comparisons of the same lines between the Adagio/Agitato instruments and the Anthology ones?
Cory does a quick a/b of Anthology and Agitato/Adagio in his video, in case that helps. That second Anthology legato example is pretty jacked up.

Another comparison you might find helpful. There was a violin blind shootout a few months ago. It's a long thread worth going through in its entirety, but to skip to the comparison you want you can download the files here and listen to the first two, which are 1.Adagio, 2.Agitato. There are other 8dio ones in there if you check the unblinding list and Anthology might make an appearance. Basically, each instrument is put through its paces in a seven part obstacle course meant to simulate the hardest things for a VI legato to pull off.
 
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ism

Senior Member
Corey's video is helpful in it's comparison between Adagio and Anthology, but it doesn't really go into the details of the dynamic arcs.

So here's a third little experiment:


First the line from the above noodle with viola soloed, then repeated on Anthology.

To try to get a fair comparison I've tweaked the midi data on the Anthology section, in attempt to simulate the dynamics baked into the arcs on the Adagio line.

I think the arcs on the Adagio section have a much more emotional quality. But keep in mind that this line is crafted explicitly to explore the kind of phrases that really benefit from the arcs. Although the busier the mix the less this would matter.

I really think for violas in the lower registers, for this kind of line, Adagio is fantastically beautiful and expressive.

I'm especially really starting to love the short bows - check out the difference between short bow 1 and 2 on the first two (2-note) phrases. Subtle, but really quite a beautiful effect if you leave enough space in the mix for it to be heard.

So even within the sweet spot of this library, delicate phrases in the lowest viola register is an especially lovely sweet spot.
 
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jaketanner

Senior Member
I think the one thing with these Adagio libraries that is missing for me, compared to other newer libraries, is the all inclusive "master" patch. The auto switching from articulations based off velocity...not KS. And BTW, side note: my Adagio solo cello, has so many notes that just cut short, it's quite difficult to play. But I was warned that this Adagio series in general, was supposed to have been discontinued, yet 8Dio has left it...albeit, at a discount. Wish they'd revisit them...Anthology does not do these samples justice..especially not Agitato...they have such a nice tone, that somehow is missing in Anthology.
 

gruskada

New Member
Can anyone help? I can play legato patches just fine on the stand-alone version of Kontakt (v5.8.1), and they sometimes work when I just play a patch with Reaper (5.965), but as soon as I hit record, the legato doesn't work, and I can play multiple notes at once.

I emailed 8dio's support on this - they asked me lots of details, but now they won't respond.
 

EgM

Game music!
Can anyone help? I can play legato patches just fine on the stand-alone version of Kontakt (v5.8.1), and they sometimes work when I just play a patch with Reaper (5.965), but as soon as I hit record, the legato doesn't work, and I can play multiple notes at once.

I emailed 8dio's support on this - they asked me lots of details, but now they won't respond.
They're right, you need to give more details. Attach a Reaper project or post a video.
 

gruskada

New Member
They're right, you need to give more details. Attach a Reaper project or post a video.
I had given them all the details they asked for and even suggested that I could send them a video, and got no answer for over a week.

In any case, they eventually replied after prodding them a few times, but now everything just works without me doing anything. So I'm not sure what to do if it starts acting up again, but at least it works for now.
 

jbuhler

Senior Member
So in a complete surprise 8dio support got back to me at long last with materials to install the multis for the Adagio violas. I’m not at my rig right now so I can’t attest to whether they work, but it was at least gratifying to see that they did ultimately attempt to address the issue rather than sticking with their original line that the multis were no longer needed. I’ll report back once I’ve had a chance to install.
 

sostenuto

Big NKS Fan !
So in a complete surprise 8dio support got back to me at long last with materials to install the multis for the Adagio violas. I’m not at my rig right now so I can’t attest to whether they work, but it was at least gratifying to see that they did ultimately attempt to address the issue rather than sticking with their original line that the multis were no longer needed. I’ll report back once I’ve had a chance to install.
Good to know ! This infers each user will need to contact 8DIO Support for this fix ?
No big deal, just strange versus Update and notification.
 

jbuhler

Senior Member
Good to know ! This infers each user will need to contact 8DIO Support for this fix ?
No big deal, just strange versus Update and notification.
I'm not sure. And it may only apply to Apple users on later systems where the Apple installer originally supplied with the library didn't work. I'll let you know when I've had a chance to install it and see what they gave me.
 

jbuhler

Senior Member
I'm not sure. And it may only apply to Apple users on later systems where the Apple installer originally supplied with the library didn't work. I'll let you know when I've had a chance to install it and see what they gave me.
8dio support sent me a set of graphics and once put in the correct folder the multi works as promised. The switching in the multi doesn't seem especially smooth, at least in the mode selected by velocity, but we'll see. At least it works now...
 

Wolf68

I should compose something.
my adagio voilas are from 2013. does anyone know if there is an update meanwhile?
 
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