Any strings libraries that contain waves samples

Discussion in 'SAMPLE Talk' started by michdb, May 15, 2018.

  1. michdb

    michdb Active Member

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    Hi
    do you know if there are any other strings library that has waves samples like the OLAFUR ARNALDS CHAMBER EVOLUTIONS?
    any other alternative?

    thanks
     
  2. ism

    ism Senior Member

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    I consider the OA waves as the gold standard at the moment for this sort of thing, but a few thoughts:

    1. 8dio string libraries have a similar concept, and what spitfire calls "waves" is a type of "dynamic arc" in 8dio parlance. And they really can sound great.

    The caveat is that the content can feels a bit scattershot, more towards the "loop collection" end of the spectrum, n contrast to the spitfire approach to "waves", which is fast becoming a real work horse of an instrument for me. I've never quite managed to fit 8dio arcs into an actual composition, however nice they are to play with.

    Caveat is that I've not used the new Century strings, just the older Adagio/Agitato/Adagietto/Anthology. (And maybe its worth noting that the concept of dynamic arcs runs much deeper that simple "waves" in Adagio/Agitato, although the concept appears to have been abandon going forward form Anthology). Actually the free "try pack" of century stings offers an example of their approach to dynamic arcs, and they really are nice to play with.


    2. Another really interesting approach is light and sound chamber strings, which has recorded crescendo and decrescendos which you trigger typically via the sustain pedal, which makes them wonderfully, perhaps uniquely, playable. Combined with the already very good dynamic crossfades, you get an effect that has at least a "wave"-like quality to it. Not as comprehensive as the OA waves, and of course nothing sounds quite like spitfire chamber strings in AIR, but a really notable innovation in the same space.

    3. Vir Harmonic's solo strings have sampled a *lot* of dynamic arcs. It's not quite the same thing as the waves, but using keywitchhes you can get very convincing "waves" at least for certain tempos. Embertone's joshua bell has two speeds of crescendo and decrescendo sampled also, but dynamic arcs are much less central to their approach.


    I'd say this isn't an easy thing to get right in a sample library, but OACE and LSCS (and in an adjacent space, Bohemian cello) have sold me on the concept. So here's hoping we'll see a lot more of this kind of sampling going forward.
     
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  3. The Darris

    The Darris Senior Member

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    To piggy back off of where @ism left off. Orchestral Tools have some similar "swell" patches in their Brass and Strings libraries that are great. However, they only have Long and Short swells and for me, the short swells feel more like long swells making it less diverse for me. I would buy any library (if done well) that is simply super short, short, medium, long, and very long swell patches that are both one shots and tempo sync'd. This includes swell, crescendos, decrescendos, etc. Multiple articulations like trems, sul pont trem, muted brass with variations in mute timbre such as a plunger effect. I did a little freebie back in the day that demonstrates this with a solo trumpet and I think it's worthy of a full on development some time. I wish I had the money to do it myself.
     
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  4. Francis Bourre

    Francis Bourre Senior Member

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    8dio Century Strings contains a bunch of articulations with the same approach:
    • Arc Short (Contains Several Sample Sets At Different Speeds)
    • Arc Short Decr (Contains Several Sample Sets At Different Speeds)
    • Arc Short 2 Bows (Contains Several Sample Sets At Different Speeds)
    • Arc Long (Contains Several Sample Sets At Different Speeds)
    • Arc Long Dec (Contains Several Sample Sets At Different Speeds)
    • Arc Long 2 Bows (Contains Several Sample Sets At Different Speeds)
    • Loure Short (Contains Several Sample Sets At Different Speeds)
     
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  5. Henu

    Henu Senior Member

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    Cinestrings, though it's labeled as "hairpin".
     
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  6. muk

    muk Senior Member

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    The older VSL strings have a multitude of crescendo and decrescendo patches of various length (1.5 sec, 3 sec, and 6 sec if I remember correctly), plus pf and pfp patches.
     
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  7. OP
    OP
    michdb

    michdb Active Member

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    Dec 25, 2017
    thanks for such great answer
    actually, the light and sound chamber strings sound interesting and I saw few times at 50% is the cheapest solution do you know the name of articulation on this library have the crescendo and decrescendos?
    The Olafur chamber evolution I think is expensive just only to use the waves due I already own the symphony evolution
     
  8. prodigalson

    prodigalson Senior Member

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    the cinestrings "hairpin" isn't a sampled swell though right? It's just an automated, scripted dynamic curve. I think the arcs in 8dio and waves in SF are so valuable because they are actually performed and recorded that way.
     
  9. benmrx

    benmrx Senior Member

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    Big fat +1 on this. I would LOVE to see more libraries with these types of patches, but IMO they really need to be timed and offer a 'sync to host' feature. For example, I think the Spitfire OACE waves sound amazing, and very inspiring....., but I've held off on purchasing because of my disappointment in using the 'arcs' from the 8DIO Adagio series and the 'swells' from the OT Ark series. I just find the whole process of sliding the notes around so the swell lands at the right spot extremely frustrating. I have successfully used them when the Arc or Swell is the first thing I do in the composition so they dictate the tempo. If I'm trying to add them into a composition I've already started, then I'll bounce them down to audio so I can slide them around to land on the beat. But recently... I've just stopped using them, and gone back to traditional crossfade patches and performed the dynamic swell myself with CC1.
     
  10. The Darris

    The Darris Senior Member

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    Exactly. Personally, OACE is the most flexible because the variation in wave lengths is very nice. To expand on my idea a bit further, imagine pulling up a patch for Violins 1 and having 2 sets of keyswitches. 1 set changes the length ranging from 1-8 beats (tempo locked) and the second changed between articulations. In the gui, you get control over the tempo sync options (Sync to host or manual) plus 3 divisions Quarter, Dotted Quarter, and Half which, to me, are the most used tempo marking divisions. This would make it possible to cover 6/8, 4/4, and 3/2 time signatures without having to program around that. This is a feature most libraries lack when dealing with tempo sync'd samples.

    To cut down on size, I don't need 4+ mic positions. Give me a solid conductor position stereo mix plus a good surround mix. In all of the jobs I've done, that's all I have to send the engineer to mix with the live sessions. They prefer dryer sound to a mix similar to Cinematic Studio Strings is perfect in my opinion.

    The basic articulation breakdown would cover Swells, Crescendos, and Decrescendo at all sync'd lengths listed above. Now, apply your favorite articulations to those and there you go. Measured Trems would be awesome as I've not found a very dynamically diverse Meas Trem patch out there. This concept applied to Brass instruments is by far the best way to approach sampled brass phrases since there really isn't a brass library that can do convincing CC programmed swells from true piano to true fortissimo. The variation in timbre is so different that the crossfade is just not convincing, likewise, most developers work around that such as Berlin Brass. There is no way their sustained samples go past mf, they barely register as forte in my opinion. The reason for that is what I've mentioned above. The problems with sampled brass stem from the fact that those instruments don't produce a homogeneous sound in all dynamics, unlike strings which do that not only across dynamics but across the range for the most part. The only brass library that I think covers a near perfect programmable crossfade from piano to fortissimo is Chris Hein's Orch Brass. However, I am not a fan of the sound that library produces. It's dry, sterile, and just lacks that scoring sound I want. It's a personal taste at that point but his libraries are by far the best if you want smooth dynamic crossfading in all dynamic ranges of an instrument.

    ::sigh:: If only.

    Cheers,

    Chris
     
  11. Henu

    Henu Senior Member

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    I'm 99% sure that's exactly how it works, unfortunately.
     
  12. benmrx

    benmrx Senior Member

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    +1, especially in regards to the brass.
    I would just augment your idea with two thoughts.

    1: Having a 3rd keyswitch to determine the dynamic of the swell. So you could have a half note pp-mf swell followed by a whole note mf-ff swell for example. Or maybe the dynamic is determined by velocity?
    2: I would definitely want three mic positions for close, tree and ambient.

    What would be awesome, is if it could be scripted so that the swell up and the swell down could have different articulations. So imagine a swell up with measured trems, and a swell down with trills for example. Personally, I'd love to see Spitfire release this library and have it be designed from the ground up to be implemented with their current 'Symphony Series'. So, same players, same mic positions, etc. They could call it 'Spitfire Symphonic Waves'.
     
    Last edited: May 16, 2018
  13. ism

    ism Senior Member

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    Its very clever the way the records dynamic arcs are integrated in the long articulation.

    But I think it's the "dynamic longs" articulation the most obviously uses them. The dynamic legato long, as the name suggests works similarly. Though the regular legato and longs , can trigger the de/crescendos with the sustain.

    I'm not suggesting that this is in the same league, or even that it's trying to do the same thing as the OA waves. But a small feature like this really adds a lot.

    Here's the demo:




     
    Last edited: May 16, 2018
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