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Any problems with Logic's articulation system?

Alex Fraser

Senior Member
Yes I noted about that earlier in the thread. It might be a bug or It might be intentional as I saw comments in one of their release notes about not sending key switches for cc events. It really sure, it’s kind of half baked and unclear now though
A quick experiment shows that it does change the articulation ID's attached to the CC events, as in previous versions of Logic. It just doesn't update the display. So, looks like a bug.

Agreed that the artic system needs another hour or so in the oven. The ideal would be "don't send articulation ID's with CC events unless I explicitly say so."
 

Heinigoldstein

Active Member
It seems that the "Capsule" comments go to a dead end.

Dewdman42, please try to optimize your posts and their contents - it will be more easy to follow your ideas. Thanks.

Heinigoldstein, thanks for your "on the fly" details.

I contacted Tobias from OT a long time ago after they released Capsule. Our conversation was about Articulation Maps and their "On the Fly" compatibility.
The "Articulation Maps" concept is locked: i.e you can program up to 4 KS embedded into a Map (say Sus+Stacc+Trem+Pizz) but it is a pre-designed custom decision programing which is locked into the Maps (Art Set).

The "Capsule" goal is a simultaneous KS (chord) real time triggering which enables the correspondent Groups in the KSP script.

This is not possible in the current Logic factory Art Sets technology. I may say that it requires a special programing...
Thanks for clarifying all this to all of you. Seems like there's still a lot of room to improove the system for you 3rd party guys !
 

symphonic riot

New Member
I have a strange problem with the input side of Articulation Sets ("Switches" pane). I control articulations by program change messages in Vienna Instruments pro and have set it up accordingly. When I turn the Midi Remote button in the Switches pane off everything works and I can switch articulations from my keyboard (yet, Articulation IDs are surely not changed). However, when I turn the Midi Remote on, no program change messages from the keyboard are transmitted to VIpro at all anymore and I always hear the same articulation while playing/recording. Therefore, it is impossible to properly play/record a sequence this way, due to the wrong articulations that are monitored. Nevertheless, when doing so, all the articulation changes I sent from my keyboard are encoded into the appropriate articulation IDs once the recording is finished, and work subsequently when I play that sequence back again! I.e. it works in principle, but is nevertheless completely unusable as it is, which is really odd. Is this a known bug or am I missing something?
 

A.G

Active Member
If the Articulation MIDI Remote is set to Program Changes then when you turn it ON it gets the Programs and blocks them for VI usage in Logic. Try to set the Articulation MIDI Remote "Switches" pane to say MIDI Channel 16 and external controller Programs set to CH.16. For real usage of Programs in DAW make an external controller preset with Programs set to say Ch.1 or Ch.2.
 

symphonic riot

New Member
Thanks for the suggested workaround, but this does not work. If I set the channel in the Switches pane to the channel my keyboard sends and the channel in the Output pane to any other channel nothing is transmitted to the VI, no matter if MIDI Remote is active or not (which also looks like a bug).

So my initial problem must indeed be a bug, since even though it might make sense that the program changes are filtered, in case I want to control the VI by other MIDI messages (although this should be configurable), if I then explicitly assign program changes for every articulation ID in the output pane (which I did) it should definitely send those. Yet, it doesn't do that while playing/recording (with or without channel assignments), but only as soon as I play back a recorded sequence.
 

5Lives

Senior Member
I for one would like to thank @babylonwaves for their articulation sets. Works great for my simple use cases! Hope they support Red Room Audio in the future (or I suppose I could make my own).

I tend to prefer Logic’s approach to Cubase’s articulation maps (which to me were a pain to setup and use).
 

Symfoniq

Active Member
I for one would like to thank @babylonwaves for their articulation sets. Works great for my simple use cases! Hope they support Red Room Audio in the future (or I suppose I could make my own).

I tend to prefer Logic’s approach to Cubase’s articulation maps (which to me were a pain to setup and use).
Agreed that Cubase's articulation maps are a pain. It's a cumbersome, half-baked, buggy feature, and as a Cubase user, I'm surprised when articulation maps are a reason that people choose Cubase.

Now if Logic had disabled tracks, I'd probably switch back.
 

Craig Allen

New Member
Agreed that Cubase's articulation maps are a pain. It's a cumbersome, half-baked, buggy feature, and as a Cubase user, I'm surprised when articulation maps are a reason that people choose Cubase.

Now if Logic had disabled tracks, I'd probably switch back.
When you refer to Cubase's "articulation maps", are you meaning their "expression maps"?
I thought I understood those to be superior?
It sounds like Logic's articulations features still have bugs.
Cubase's EMaps have more bugs?

(I say this as someone just beginning to explore both programs. Ease of use in this arena affects my purposes and choice of SW).

Thanks, Craig
 

babylonwaves

Senior Member
It sounds like Logic's articulations features still have bugs.
Cubase's EMaps have more bugs?

(I say this as someone just beginning to explore both programs. Ease of use in this arena affects my purposes and choice of SW).
@Craig Allen -

both don't really have bugs these days (cubase 10, logic 10.4.6). there might be people who believe that certain aspects could have been implemented in a different way but that doesn't make it a bug. both setup editors are not as easy as other areas of logic and cubase. but that's in the nature of how things are being done, it can be a little technical. working with expression maps and articulation sets is absolutely painless, setting up is the issue.

i personally would leave this area out when it comes to a buying decision. also, i think things have turned over the last two years. using articulations becomes more and more the standard approach. there is less and less people these days who want to open a track for each articulation.

hth
 

Dewdman42

Senior Member
There are pros and cons to both approaches and neither one is as full featured as I feel they need to be to keep me happy, but they are both better then nothing also. If i had to choose one right now it would be Logic's system mainly because articulationID's are attached to actual Note Events, which I prefer, and also i can use Logic's Scripter to make up for any deficiencies in the ArticulationSet paradigm that it provides.
 

samphony

Senior Member
I use both approaches daily a mix and match depending on the cue. For example i like to have my notes on the geid and work with negative track delays so i have to use multiple tracks per articulations sometimes.
 
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