(Any Devs?) Toontrack no upgrade path for SD2 customers

I'm interested to hear what this community has to say about this situation.
I've been using superior drummer 2 since it came out years ago and payed full price, it was 10 dvds back in the day with the metal foundry sdx.

I just feel so let down that they don't offer an upgrade path for the loyal customers of SD2.

I don't understand their logic behind this business wise,

They initially offered the crossgrade for a month when it first came out for SD2 owners, but a lot of users like me couldn't fork out the money for the crossgrade at the time,
BUT for some reason they kept the crossgrade path for EZX owners (a much cheaper version of superior drummer)

So currently if you own EZX you get a crossgrade option to SD3, but if you own SD2, sorry, no crossgrade option, full price for you.

It just makes no sense to me why they would do this, its really turned a lot of SD2 users off using anything from toontrack again.
I'm leaning in that direction now and looking into other products for drums because I dont trust toontrack anymore, in that they havent even considered the relationship with loyal customers.

I wonder what other devs think about this too?
I understand they have to make a buck, but to offer a crossgrade for EZX users and not SD2 users is even more salt in the wound.

...and when you compare this to other devs who have continually updated their libraries over the years FOR FREE, and offered discounts, crossgrades options etc... it makes toontrack look like 'apple' as one poster said on the toontrack forum.

EDIT: the upgrade offered for SD2 users was longer than one month, my bad
 
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Dex

Member
They offered the upgrade option to SD2 owners for a lot longer than just one month, but yeah, it's gone now.

That said, Toontrack are not the only game in town. I don't own Steven Slate Drums but I've heard several tracks done with them that just sound incredible, for instance.
 

kgdrum

Senior Member
I feel your pain I was a SD2 user who reluctantly upgraded before the end of the upgrade period.
To be clear I resented the limited upgrade period and I had to scrape coins together to pay for it.Toontrack actually warned customers for several months not 1 month about the limited time upgrade path.
From my memory it was closer to a 6 month warning,did I like this,NO but it was not a 1 month window and they stated this clearly and sent out numerous emails to users reiterating this limited timed upgrade.
Yes it pissed me off ,I do agree it was weird but Toontrack gave users several warnings over several months.
IMO it really doesn’t matter what other developers think, Toontrack set their policy ,let users know and didn’t waver.
If my memory serves me correctly they did the same thing with the upgrade path from EZ Drummer ——> EZDrummer2.
I missed that ,I have never upgraded to EZD2 ,yeah it’s a weird policy but I guess they feel it’s easier to only support the current platform and avoid dealing with discontinued versions.
Regardless Toontrack makes great products and they are a good company even if they have some weird upgrade policies.

Myself I have Slates SSD4 and didn’t upgrade to SD5 because I think their eDrum and hi hat implementation is not as strong as Toontracks.Even if you don’t like Toontracks policies I feel they make a better product than Slate and I definitely trust them way more.
SSD5 users have been waiting for almost 1 year for an update to fix problems users are complaining about.My guess SSD6 will be released before they ever update SSD5,don’t get me started on how long Steven has been promising an update for FG-X! lol
You might not like ToonTracks policies but at least you can trust them to stick to their word.
 
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OP
ChristopherRock
I feel your pain I was a SD2 user who reluctantly upgraded before the end of the upgrade period.
To be clear as much as I resented the limited upgrade period and I had to scrape coins together to pay for it.Toontrack actually warned customers for several months not 1 month about the limited time upgrade path.
From my memory it was closer to a 6 month warning,did I like this,NO but it was not a 1 month window and they stated this clearly and sent out numerous emails to users reiterating this limited timed upgrade.
Yes it pissed me off ,I do agree it was weird but Toontrack gave users several warnings over several months.
IMO it really doesn’t matter what other developers think, Toontrack set their policy ,let users know and didn’t waver.
If my memory serves me correctly they did the same thing with the upgrade path from EZ Drummer ——> EZDrummer2.
I missed that ,I have never upgraded to EZD2 ,yeah it’s a weird policy but I guess they feel it’s easier to only support the current platform and avoid dealing with discontinued versions.
Regardless Toontrack makes great products and they are a good company even if they have some weird upgrade policies.
Do you think the upgrade was worth it then?
I didnt realize they have already done this with EZD2!
I see your point about SD5, had no idea as i dont own it. I guess i'll give that one a miss!

i do think its worth comparing to other devs though, because there are standards, another company comes along and makes things a bit better, or with more value etc... then people will buy those products instead. I'm trying to understand this from a business perspective too, in the relationship with the customer, who has already supported them for their product, in that it seems common practice that companies offer a discount for previous owners.

To me it feels like their attitude is that they are the ones doing us a favour by offering a product.
sure they make great products but i dont like being treated like i'm not valued as a user. I think at the time i had only heard about the upgrade one month before it ended (around dec last year?) which is why i remember it being a month. my bad about that, i had no idea about it being that long.

I've emailed plenty of devs and when they show that they care about customers, it makes me want to support them and buy their products, i was a business owner for many years and what got sales was the relationship with the customer, they may not buy anything at the time, but because of the interaction, when it comes time to buy something who are they going to go to?
 

kgdrum

Senior Member
Honestly I haven’t delved into SD3 yet but it really looks like a huge improvement over SD2 on many levels.
Go to Gearslutz and compare the TT SD3 threads with the Slate SD5 threads and you’ll see the level of happy TT users compared to grumbling over Slates delayed upgrade........
From my perspective Toontracks focus is more eDrum oriented than Slates as a drummer that’s more important for me than Slates cheaper fluctuating upgrade path.
If your not using an eDrum rig Slate should be OK but I am and honestly I don’t trust Slate with their estimated timelines at all.
During Slates numerous sales I can upgrade to the new version for $49 but without the Superior eDrum implementation (pun intended) and my lack of confidence in Slate as a company I really haven’t been interested in trying SSD5.
 
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Sears Poncho

Senior Member
They did this with EZ as well. There was a short period to upgrade to EZ2 and after that one had to start over and buy at full price.
 

thomasjdev

New Member
I didn't have SD2 but was looking at replacing my XLN Addictive Drums. What sold me about SD3 was their built in midi editor changing up a pattern with the different drum articulations and the overall customization of the beat and then taking the final midi and dragging it to the track in my project.

I found the best pricing for SD3 from Bestservice and they offer a download/key only option which was nice.
 
OP
ChristopherRock
I didn't have SD2 but was looking at replacing my XLN Addictive Drums. What sold me about SD3 was their built in midi editor changing up a pattern with the different drum articulations and the overall customization of the beat and then taking the final midi and dragging it to the track in my project.

I found the best pricing for SD3 from Bestservice and they offer a download/key only option which was nice.
thanks for the tip! i'll keep an eye out at bestservice if i need to upgrade, cheers mate :)
 

kgdrum

Senior Member
+1 on BestService
I bought my upgrade from them,they offered the best price I could find.
They are one of my favorite online companies, I’ve been a happy client of theirs for years.

*edit*
Besides great pricing BestService responds to purchase and technical questions. In my experience if you have any issues BestService is true to their name.
 
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wst3

my office these days
Moderator
I was also annoyed with their approach to upgrades from SD2 to SD3, and waited till the last possible moment before finally giving in and upgrading.

I still think their tactics are awful, but my regret is that I did not upgrade sooner - SD3 really is pretty remarkable, and with the addition of the Decades and Orchestral expansions it remains my go-to drummer. I still supplement it with odd libraries here and there, but I don't always have to!

I think there should be a do-over for folks who stuck to their guns, but I don't expect them to do that. (hope they make me look foolish!)
 
OP
ChristopherRock
@wst3 I hope they make all of us who stuck to ds2 all look foolish, i'd be very grateful to feel foolish again :emoji_laughing: maybe BF they will discount it
 

2chris

Member
I suggest XLN Audio Addictive drums, because the value and product arr excellent IMO. It’s my favorite. I also like NI’s abbey road drums which run in Kontakt. If you need mega sampled options more similar to SD, BFD is good.
 

Jediwario1

Composer
I'm one of the stubborn ones that didn't upgrade.

I have most of the SD2 expansions which sound amazing and cover anything I need drums for. Some of the new features are nice but for what I do SD2 serves me well.
 

Dex

Member
Honestly I haven't been blown away by the new features in SD 3, but I tend to write my own parts and just use the samples. The new groove finder and drum replacer seem very good; I just have no use for them.


I suggest XLN Audio Addictive drums, because the value and product arr excellent IMO. It’s my favorite.
As a drummer, I don’t think they sound very good.
 
OP
ChristopherRock
@Dex that was the same reason i didnt upgrade, it didnt seem like i needed to, and for some silly reason i just assumed it would always be there. I used to use the old drum tracker they released back in the day, its freakin atrocious, one of the reasons i got cubase was because of the midi to transient, is probably the best i've use, i use it for all my drums. it just sux that all their new packs only support sd3, so now i'm forced to upgrade when they release new packs, which is why i consider to do it now too.
 

2chris

Member
Honestly I haven't been blown away by the new features in SD 3, but I tend to write my own parts and just use the samples. The new groove finder and drum replacer seem very good; I just have no use for them.



As a drummer, I don’t think they sound very good.
I feel you. I’m not saying it’s the most realistic or best. It’s my favorite for variety, resource use, patterns etc. IMO it’s similar but better than ez drummer. If you have a nice mix bus you can make it work. SD is way more realistic and is in another league. If that’s what you need and don’t want SD, I listed BFD. I don’t use it, but supposedly it’s in a similar class. There are many for Kontakt that sound “realistic”, and I like the sound of the abbey road stuff and Steven slate drums. Then again, they sound realistic to me as a non drummer. The patterns and variety of decent quality sounds are nice on the addictive drums expansions and that’s why it’s my favorite.
 

Wes Antczak

Senior Member
I did not upgrade either. Part of it was that I felt that SD3 had way more features than it seems I really needed. Part of it was that I did not want to be "forced" into upgrading on their terms as it were.

I can see their reasoning from the support perspective because they do not have to support multiple versions of things and can focus their efforts on the current lineup only.

As others, I also have other options like Slate, XLN, and Kontakt. For now, and for my needs, I decided to focus on Addictive Drums. The pricing is great and they frequently offer specials on expansion kits, separate pieces, and even midi. I am happy with the workflow using AD for straight ahead drums and percussion.

Finally, for a great deal of my projects I seem to be mainly focused on orchestral percussion, for which in my case, Toontrack doesn't even come into play.
 
OP
ChristopherRock
I did not upgrade either. Part of it was that I felt that SD3 had way more features than it seems I really needed. Part of it was that I did not want to be "forced" into upgrading on their terms as it were.

I can see their reasoning from the support perspective because they do not have to support multiple versions of things and can focus their efforts on the current lineup only.

As others, I also have other options like Slate, XLN, and Kontakt. For now, and for my needs, I decided to focus on Addictive Drums. The pricing is great and they frequently offer specials on expansion kits, separate pieces, and even midi. I am happy with the workflow using AD for straight ahead drums and percussion.

Finally, for a great deal of my projects I seem to be mainly focused on orchestral percussion, for which in my case, Toontrack doesn't even come into play.
They dont have to offer any support for SD2, just offer a cheaper price for sd3 for those who own it and have it in their account. its not hard for them to do at all, it literally is what they did prior to sd3 coming out, just offer a crossgrade price for sd2 owners.

It should never be 'on their terms' should it? thats the most interesting part to me, how is that a good business decision when they make their customers feel bullied into buying something? is it just me or does it comes across greedy and like they dont value their customers, its like toontrack are the ones doing us all a favour, and not an equal relationship of transaction for money/service.