"Air" frequency buildup, yes or no?

Which one is the version with each of the sections playing on a separate track?

  • The first one

    Votes: 1 14.3%
  • The second one

    Votes: 1 14.3%
  • Both are the same

    Votes: 5 71.4%

  • Total voters
    7
  • Poll closed .

WindcryMusic

Senior Member
In the following thread on mockup dynamics, I proposed the idea of splitting part of an ensemble patch among multiple channels in order to vary the dynamics of each section.

"Ways of Getting Mockup Dynamics Spot-On." Discuss.

It was suggested to me that this would not work because of frequency buildup issues. I don't believe that applies in this case (as I explained in that thread), and as such I've created the test file below.

This has two renders of the same short strings section (just a few bars I whipped up for this purpose, nothing special), played back to back. In one of the renders I have the entire ensemble playing on one track, with one instance of Kontakt and one full string ensemble patch (Albion One) loaded. In the other render I broke the individual sections out onto five tracks, each of which has their own instance of Kontakt and their own ensemble patch (same one as above) loaded. Other than trimming the notes so that each track only plays a single section (violins 1, violins 2, violas, celli, basses), I changed nothing whatsoever. Same mic mix (Tree + Ambient), no reverb, no volume changes at the output (all channels are at unity gain, with some boost at the stereo out to bring the volume up)

I want to see if people can distinguish one of these from the other, and identify the "Air buildup" that I was told would result from splitting the parts onto multiple tracks.

 

VinRice

... i am a robot ... viruses have no effect ...
I imagine any differences would be in the round robin samples triggered and the summing quality of Kontakt versus the DAW itself. Feels like there was a teeny tiny bit more bass in the second run through but I wouldn't swear to it in court. People get far too hung up on the reverb in samples IMHO, our ears are notoriously crap in separating the quality of essentially chaotic real room reverb from tonal sounds. Also I'm pretty sure chaotic sounds don't sum in the same way as tonal sounds. There will be math(s) somewhere...
 
I think there was simply a slight misunderstanding in the other thread. As Mihkel says, there should be no difference between playing five notes in the same track and spreading the same notes over five tracks - the same samples will be triggered so the same amount of build up will occur.

What is possible is that the total amount of reverb/build up you get when using these patches may be more than what you would expect if that orchestra were to actually record what you programmed. But this will be the same with pretty much all libraries unless they are completely dry, and your idea of splitting up an Albion ensemble patch to individually control dynamics makes perfect sense.
 
OP
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WindcryMusic

Senior Member
I imagine any differences would be in the round robin samples triggered and the summing quality of Kontakt versus the DAW itself. Feels like there was a teeny tiny bit more bass in the second run through but I wouldn't swear to it in court. People get far too hung up on the reverb in samples IMHO, our ears are notoriously crap in separating the quality of essentially chaotic real room reverb from tonal sounds. Also I'm pretty sure chaotic sounds don't sum in the same way as tonal sounds. There will be math(s) somewhere...
Unless my memory is failing, I don't think the sustains in Albion One have any round robins. If so, at least that shouldn't account for any differences in this case, as it is all sustains. (I would normally have used legato for the viola and cello countermelodies, at the very least, but I wanted to keep it straightforward for the comparison.)

I agree that the summing in Kontakt vs. Logic is probably the main source of any differences.
 

Saxer

Senior Member
I don't really understand the problem. Most wet libraries offer different mic perspectives. If there's too much room there's the possibility to select drier mixes. To avoid release sample room build ups on staccato ostinatos you can reduce the voice count of the sample instrument.
If it sounds bad: do something. If not: leave it as it is.
 
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