AI as an assistant or a replacement?

Discussion in 'SAMPLE Talk' started by Ashley123, Sep 12, 2018.

  1. CGR

    CGR Pianist/Composer/Arranger

    Jan 14, 2016
    Just bought a copy of Cracklefield, and made a quick short track with it which I then added piano to - felt like playing with an improvising robot, but in a fun way. Unpredictable, and a fair bit of what resulted really didn't 'gel' and sounded too random for my liking, but there were moments of real surprise & potential for me, in both playing and listening back, that really appeals to me.

    Been reading through the comprehensive manual and I'm still getting my head around the concepts and application of 'rules' etc. but looking forward to exploring it fully. And, no - I don't consider myself a lazy composer. I think software like this is a very interesting development in music making.
    Wally Garten likes this.
  2. kevthurman

    kevthurman Active Member

    Dec 18, 2018
    I bet trailer music could be done by an A.I. at this point.:faint:
    dpasdernick, and calebfaith like this.
  3. Chr!s

    Chr!s Active Member

    May 27, 2018
    As an assistant.

    I don't believe the robot takeover of every industry will actually come to pass even once the tech is there, but I'll save that for more shitposting in the politics section.
    kevthurman likes this.
  4. GtrString

    GtrString Active Member

    Dec 10, 2016
    AI is hugely overrated as is, imo. Even as assistance it needs too much help in most cases to even be helpful.

    How can AI interpret directors mind, and provide what they dont even knew they wanted?

    How can AI express emotion based on reflected experience, crafted to communicate in a way that reaches a broad audience?

    AI can assist with utterly simple routine tasks, if someone has spent time programming it for that specific simple task.

    The biggest danger is if people think that AI actually can do “music”, and then make desicions based on confirmation bias.

    Then we have to waste years waiting for boneheads to finally acknowledge and appreciate the human touch again.

    Though, some musicians and composers may need to refresh the realization that it is the human senses that creates the music, not the tools.

    I’ll go in the other direction. The more AI available, the less I will use it. It is a free opportunity to be unique and stand out.
    Last edited: Dec 27, 2018
  5. Chr!s

    Chr!s Active Member

    May 27, 2018
    There's this bizarre thing where people think that machines doing things is "inevitable" and there is no escape of it despite the fact that all you have to do to not use something is just simply don't.


    Musicians aren't going to stop creating music even once AI can do it, most film-makers will still use their trusted composers, etc.

    Remember how in the early 2000s, maybe earlier, CGI was totally the way of the future? There were 100% CG movies like Final Fantasy (which bombed hard as hell).

    Well, CGI has improved loads since then, and yet there's been a revival of practical effects like in John Wick or Mad Max.
  6. Ned Bouhalassa

    Ned Bouhalassa Senior Member

    Sep 30, 2004
    We will be one, AI and us. In fact, my phone and I are actually pretty close as is, my brain is already part-Mac-OS.
  7. averystemmler

    averystemmler Active Member

    Sep 22, 2017
    I'm neither a sociologist nor a philosopher, but I like to follow the "right tool for the job" philosophy, and I think (personal ignorance disclaimer here) civilization at large does as well. When AI becomes a superior tool for accomplishing a scoring "function" (e.g., advertising, trailer music, emotional lifestyle morning show underscore, etc), it will be used for it. And there is artistic promise as well. Imagine a system that analyzes your own scores and picks apart your favorite techniques, puts them in a bucket, and lets you adapt them to your current score at the click of a button. For a working composer who just wants to go the hell to sleep, it'll be very attractive. Maybe it'll automate our jobs away, but the industry will do what gives the best results the fastest, and the competition will take your dignity and bludgeon you with it. A tenant of capitalism, I suppose.

    Very respectable musicians rallied against early recording technology, criticising "machine music." Even now, folks (usually outside of this forum) resist sample libraries. I can't speak to whether all of this progress is a net gain or loss, but we usually look back on early resistance as quaint.
  8. Ned Bouhalassa

    Ned Bouhalassa Senior Member

    Sep 30, 2004
    That’s exactly how I envision using an AI assistant in 2028: experimenting in my style while I sleep.
    dzilizzi likes this.
  9. Dewdman42

    Dewdman42 Senior Member

    Oct 28, 2016
    It’s not just about jobs and money it’s also going to be about enabling people who normally would not have had enough talent or training to produce music in their own. And they will gobble up those enabling technologies. Will it be less nuanced? Yes. Will listeners care? Probably not. Music in general has become almost more available then water at this point. Everywhere you go there is some mediocre formulaic music playing in the background.
    chocobitz825 and averystemmler like this.
  10. dzilizzi

    dzilizzi I know nothing

    Feb 27, 2017
    Somewhere near Los Angeles
    I have Orb Composer and right now, it is a better writer than I am. But it still needs help. I have to adjust everything or it writes very boring pieces. And I am better at melodies, I think. It may, at some point, take the place of a composer in things like commercials. But Based on the work required to get a usable bit out of it, it will be a while.

    And maybe a real composer could make it work better.
    chocobitz825 likes this.
  11. Rey

    Rey Active Member

    Apr 1, 2017
    Anyone using orb composer with the latest version? the articulation auto generated melodies such as 'tenuto' and "marcato" are not available in the full articulation list, although it is written in the main page when the songs Is playing ,as a result there is no sound playing at all. cant even use orb piano or drag vst because the "tenuto" "marcato" and also the 'long' in basses of strings are missing. I have to switch to other articulation to get sound. anyone experience this?
  12. Land of Missing Parts

    Land of Missing Parts No Time for Honky-Tonk

    Jan 27, 2013
    AI wrote one of my favorite Christmas tunes:

    Scamper and Living Fossil like this.
  13. Wally Garten

    Wally Garten Active Member

    Apr 23, 2018
  14. DavidY

    DavidY Active Member

    Nov 24, 2017
    This is on similar lines:
    dflood and Land of Missing Parts like this.
  15. calebfaith

    calebfaith Active Member

    I always think these tools lack the direction that humans give music.

    However I think that it could be good to use as a generator of (not so) random ideas which humans could arrange and/or use as inspiration in their own creations.
    Wally Garten likes this.
  16. Living Fossil

    Living Fossil Senior Member

    Oct 20, 2014
    I don't know, that feels like the most counterproductive possible thing.
    As long as an idea isn't finished in my head - that means, as long as i just can feel the direction where it should go, but can't yet exactly hear in my head what it's supposed to be - i avoid at all costs to destroy that unborn idea.
    Trying out some variants can damage that vague impression by manipulating the imagination into a wrong direction.
    Instead of using AS (artificial stupidity still seems the more accurate term to me), i think it's better to invest enough time in ear training.

    I could imagine doing AI algorithms some useful assistance. E. g. by searching for specific sounds in large sound libraries etc.
    But i don't want algorithms doing the most interesting part of my job (since writing music is the reason why somebody becomes a composer in the first place). That's really a weird concept, if you think about it.
    CGR and calebfaith like this.
  17. Markus Kohlprath

    Markus Kohlprath Active Member

    Mar 3, 2013
    Some of it probably even better with N.I. (=No Intelligence)
 and kevthurman like this.
  18. Ned Bouhalassa

    Ned Bouhalassa Senior Member

    Sep 30, 2004
    I’ve been doing what I do for long enough to not need ear training. The most important part of your job is sketching? Because that’s what I would want the AI to do: lots of sketches. I’m for Siri or whatever to be my assistant, not to take over all the writing. As for manipulating my imagination, I think this is already happening to all of us who are using modern software, no?
  19. Living Fossil

    Living Fossil Senior Member

    Oct 20, 2014
    No, the most important part is finding the right idea. It's not choosing between chunks of material, it's creating an organism.
    Of course, this comes with pondering at certain (mostly formal) points, in which direction a piece should go. But here again: the alternative routes pop up in my head on their own. And while i sleep, my brain takes decisions.
    But of course this (as does my post above) represents my personal point of view.
    For me, music is the creation of a complex, interwoven organism, and not an arbitrary combination of different pieces of material.

    Yes, and again: that's something one has to be cautious about.
    For me, it's very important to know, which part of composing music i will not do in the studio.
    That's why i'm still writing more complex stuff on paper. And also, why i really try to hear arrangements, orchestrations etc. in my head before i make a mockup.
    I think there is a clear connection between the decline of the formal complexity in lots of music and the use of computers.
    Often, in order to get faster and easier results, people tend to give up the most precious thing that there is in the known universe, which is the human brain, for automatons, that don't even reach a tiny fraction of their capacity but comes with instant gratification.
    kevthurman and YaniDee like this.
  20. Ned Bouhalassa

    Ned Bouhalassa Senior Member

    Sep 30, 2004
    On the subject of automatons, I do get a lot of satisfaction patching simple LFOs, including random, without sync to modulate a host of parameters on my modular system. I'm always amazed at how the combination of simple automation can yield inspiring (at least to me) complexity.
    CGR likes this.

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