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Advice for Easing into Outboard Gear

squashteam

New Member
I'm considering moving into some outboard gear (probably 500 series), but don't have the opportunity to try any out in-person or watch another composer/producer/engineer demonstrate what they like - especially during covid when I can't visit studios. I would love any advice on how to best begin this journey - or any other thoughts I should keep in mind.

Here are my reasons for considering outboard gear:

1. I want my mixes to sound richer, more immersive, and airy which it seems outboard EQ and Compression can accomplish. I own many plugins and have tried EQ and Compression techniques - but I feel like there is a threshold I can't overcome.

2. I do some tracking - so preamps are important - but I also do a lot of work with samples, or combine samples with tracked audio - so I'm interested in gear that can bring samples to life - or glue and excite the final mix.

3. I think using outboard gear might come with a bit of inspiration and fun that itb is missing. I love playing real instruments when I can - and obviously there is feedback from playing a real piano that one doesn't get playing a midi controller. Maybe mixing with outboard gear will inspire a new focus and pleasure in locking in the right tones.

4. I have a new desk with lots of empty rack space.

5. I make quirky textural music - sometimes orchestral and sometimes electronic/indie. But texture and sensuality are really inspiring to me. I think outboard gear might give me the feeling of being a painter where I can take some additional pleasure in the brush strokes.

6. I have about $3k to invest. That's probably enough to get started and figure out if anything is helping - if this is a good direction.

Finally - Its worth asking if anyone has skipped the whole 500 series thing and instead invested in only one or two key pieces of gear. Maybe analog summing, a console, or something like Louder than Liftoff Silver Bullet.

Thanks for any thoughts - and Happy New Year!
 
I make quirky textural music
not to go left field on ya, but tape delays, tube saturation boxes, an h3000 - if you're looking to experiment with "textural" i'd start there before i bought say a nice EQ or comp. i also do mostly textural, less traditional work, and my stuff from that world gets used probably 100X more frequently than my nice EQ/comp options.

as for pres, i guess that really hinges on how many channels you need. big difference between 2 channels for some keyboard/guitar layers, and 12 channels to do a drum kit at the same budget. if you want to go 500, the neve 511 w/silk are great for an affordable character choice. much more than that and your whole $3k will be spent on 2 channels, but i do love the chandler stuff for more full channel strip stuff. the thermionic culture pieces can often also cover both preamp and texture at once. the culture vulture is an amazing DI, the rooster can be a saturator for your line level stuff if you run into it that way, etc.
 
The 500-series is a good route. I have about ten modules myself, and they do wonders for tracking. My personal recommendation for bang for buck is definitely this GAP one.

For what it comes to giving samples some life and depth via hardware, you probably don't want to drive all sample tracks through preamps separately, but process the master instead. You could check out the rather new SSL Fusion for that, or go more expensive "proper summing" route with stuff like this.

All this being said, though, there's probably no need for analog summing unless you really want to get that "extra 15%" out of your mixes. Check out e.g. Plugin Alliance's HG-2 which is still on sale today. (Pinging you @squashteam here for not missing the offer in case you're interested).

I work personally in hybrid style. (I mix and master also for clients) Sometimes I drive pre-rendered stuff through my preamps or compressors if they lack some character, but mix completely ITB, sometimes using hardware VCA compressor for the master bus glue. For mastering, I use almost exclusively a tube mastering compressor and recently aqcuired SPL PQ which are my go-to hardware. While ITB is definitely faster and more convenient, we're just still not "there" yet with pure digital, if you ask me.
 
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I do alot of tracking and my fav pre for bass and vocals and Strings is "LA 610 MKII"
it is both a preamp and an opto compressor if you dont know?
And ofcourse you can run whatever through the pre's for added warmth or texture.
And Pre for guitars I love using Neve1073 and API 512v that i also use as wet DI for bass,
as for 500 series case aaaand analog summing i highly recommend: https://www.cranborne-audio.com/500adat
and as others have mentioned i also find Rubert neve 511 to be great and id probably take that over neve 1073, also rubert neve 542 tape emulator i find beautiful.

i would probably start with LA 610 MKII or similar and then the cranborne 500adat and slowly fill it up with your fav gear.

i find that an arm is missing if i dont have knobs to turn,also running a hybrid setup is much more fun :)

i hope you find your gear
good luck!! :D
 
Summing: To make it worthwhile you need at least 16 channels of really good digital to analog converters, an amazing 2 channel analog to digital convertor and a decent summing box. That is a lot of money for that around 5-10% of "betterness".
You also need to change the way you work as for passing a mix, stems etc....
If you use sub par digital convertors you just end up with worst sounding stuff given by the unnecessary, less-then-stellar conversion.
Same thing for a good outboard compressor. Without also good stereo convertors, in and out, you are not going to obtain enough benefits.
So $3K is not going to be enough to do the "little big jump" for analog summing nor for analog 2 bus processing.

Preamps, I think are still the single most important analog equipment we still "need".
So if you do a lot of tracking, it could be a very clever investment to upgrade what you have.
Maybe a channel strip (if you usually record one source at a time) which will give you some nice EQ and compression flavours you can commit to while recording.

If you want analog, but don't really know what you want, you would probably, in my opinion, benefit from getting some "fun" processors such as analog delays and "destroyers" and manglers, aka pedals and boxes. It is often really inspiring because of all of the imperfections and happy accidents, and defo hands on "playing"...

I have been working hybrid for a while, and tried a lot of different setups over the years, hope this is helpful to curb some expectations....
 
Good advice above. I went through this same thing, ended up with some great outboard. The Liquid Saffire 56 is my interface, and it has two Liquid preamps. These can be made to "do something" to a mic input. The RND Portico preamps add some fur with Silk engaged.

The Chandler TG-2 500 definitely has mojo. The RND inductor EQ's are fun to twiddle and have weight. The Aphex Compellor is a really transparent magic box.

The ISA-Two is fantastic with direct guitar and bass. Slight mojo with some microphones.

Consider a patchbay. I got my two used.

The Radial X-amp 500 is a totally magical piece of gear. I can DI the guitar, then bring it back out into effects, and amp, whatever. I can have absolutely noiseless, buzzless guitar at the amp and re-mic it.

But this: take your tracks, bring them out balanced, then go through some unbalanced effects like guitar pedals.

Best of luck to ya. I found generally that most audio gear today is so good that it doesn't "do anything" to the sound unless it's specifically designed for it. Everybody has a Distressor pair. Or maybe should?
 
All this being said, though, there's probably no need for analog summing unless you really want to get that "extra 15%" out of your mixes. Check out e.g. Plugin Alliance's HG-2 which is still on sale today.
Oh my word.

Exorcizamus te, immunde spiritus!!!!!!!


[AFTER MUCH FUN with the HG-2 plugin]

Yup. This thing really rocks. I can immediately add heft and thwack to all sorts of material. I love this thing. You sent me on a downward spiral of plugins, which I haven't thought about in a long while, and found the Shadow Hills Mastering Compressor on sale for ridiculous. A $300 plugin that I just got for a lot off.

Be sure to use the promo code WELCOME-21 to get 21 bucks off the already-discounted 49.
 
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As someone who sold almost all of his outboard..try before you buy. Outboard won't give you that 'magic' you're looking for..most top mixers are completely in the box now..and it's good enough for them

If you're working with samples mainly don't waste your money..

Get some 'secret weapons' like True Iron or Inflator and spend your money where it matters..
 
Slightly different take - if you are just getting started with outboard gear start with the best microphone preamplifier you can afford. The difference that this can make is startling. Among my candidates I would include Millennia Media, Great River, and John Hardy - my three favorite preamplifiers, own and use the Millennia Media HV-37. All three companies offer models in the 500 form factor, but I would be wary of putting a microphone preamplifier in a 500 rack, the power supplies for some of these racks are not up to that task.

I think you will be pleasantly surprised at what you can do with a first rate preamplifier and plugins!

But eventually you will want to add other gear... just the way it works.

I would start with one or two really good compressors, or one really good stereo compressor. There are so many on the market, and they all sound really good, and really different. They come in a variety of architectures, feed forward, feed back, optical, tube, FET, or VCA gain elements, etc. This is one area where plugins can be helpful in narrowing the field.

Next up would be equalizers, and from your description I'd start with a graphic EQ or even a Baxandall tone control. These are available from several manufacturers in 500 form factor. The API 560 is probably my favorite.

The last thing on my processor list would be a parametric EQ. Again I turn to API, the 550 family sound really good.

Then of course you can dig into effects processors, a nearly bottomless pit! I would recommend starting with single function devices because they will let you focus. The Eventide 4000 is a monster, it can do nearly anything, and it can also drive you a little nuts if you are not used to it.

Regardless of what gear you choose leaves something in the budget for a patchbay, and avoid any patchbay that has 1/4" connectors on the rear. Almost anything is better, and Elco/Edac is my favorite after wirewrap pins and solder tabs.

After all that I do want to mention that outboard gear is cool, but with the exception of a great microphone preamplifier it is not a panacea. It won't add magic to a mix all by itself. I think the best way, today, to learn about processors is to use really good plugin emulations. Universal Audio, Plugin-Alliance, Soundtoys, and PSP Audioware all make great plugins.

Good luck and have fun!!!
 
The microphone is 60% of the sound, the preamp is 20% of the sound. Then EQ, comp, and converter make up the last 20%. Committing to hardware slows your workflow down into realtime. If you've scored a movie, and you're doing stems, think that it's going to be ~60 minutes of score multiplied by however many stems you're going to have.
 
Good luck in your quest! Many great points made here already. I would search high and low for audio examples online for the equipment you are interested in. IMO the best examples are when there are multiple pieces of equipment and a comparison can be made between them instead of hearing something in isolation. Of course, it can be quite difficult if not impossible to find the exact examples you would like, but I think it is worth the effort.

Personally, I am happy with my hardware purchases. The hybrid route is great IMO. Combining the best of both worlds. If your mix is already pretty good, having something on the master bus is probably the easiest way to add a little something to your mix with the least effort.
 
The microphone is 60% of the sound, the preamp is 20% of the sound. Then EQ, comp, and converter make up the last 20%. Committing to hardware slows your workflow down into realtime. If you've scored a movie, and you're doing stems, think that it's going to be ~60 minutes of score multiplied by however many stems you're going to have.
Yes, percent here, percent there that's pretty accurate (well, after source and room if we want to be pedantic...). ;)

Unfortunately, I agree. If you work with media projects that require speed and agility such as shows and films, the luxury of even thinking about analog mix processing and summing goes totally out of the window and it is no longer realistic nor contemplated when starting to work on a score.
It's still feasible to track with hardware committing to a sound as you are in the writing process, pass a few tracks through a special flavor analog box such as a half broken tape delay or a cool character compressor - but mixing with analog summing especially is really out of the equation because of time constraints.

When doing other types of projects, when time is not trying to murder you and nights always seem too short, spreading everything on a summing box, applying real time processing, moving dials and knobs is surely inspiring and great fun and, in my experience and experimentation (without getting into OTB vs ITB matters which are an infinite pit of sorrow and dust of stench) sounds a little tiny % better.... (More open, more forward)
 
You'll get loads of opinions and all can be right. If you record a lot then I also suggest a high-end preamp, but if you use samples maybe a mastering setup type solution would be better.
 
The microphone is 60% of the sound, the preamp is 20% of the sound. Then EQ, comp, and converter make up the last 20%. Committing to hardware slows your workflow down into realtime. If you've scored a movie, and you're doing stems, think that it's going to be ~60 minutes of score multiplied by however many stems you're going to have.
Thanks for pointing out something that should have been obvious, but I really didn't consider. This time investment means I am now thinking of outboard gear primarily for only certain projects, which helps the decision process.
 
And thank you all for the responses - such rich, varied, and useful advice. Truly appreciated!
Just a quick update on my reply.

Imho, applying fx after vs mixing through makes a big difference on the mixing process. Often you'll read compressors, eq for such use but thats a bit aimed for pop/rock. Some sort of colorbox like the SSL fusion, analog tape emulator etc. might be more ideal for you.
 
I found generally that most audio gear today is so good that it doesn't "do anything" to the sound unless it's specifically designed for it.
Agree with this.

"preamp is 20% of the sound" - it's probably more like 1% if you are going for clean and already have a half decent preamp. Slightly higher if pushing it.

"5-10% of "betterness" with summing" - I'd say more about 0.005%.

Effects like reverb and delay are a different story though. This is where I'd focus the attention if sound source is already optimal and something is still lacking.
 
Came across this today. Not sure if you have invested already. But you could always test some stuff on services like access analog etc
 
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