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ADHD medications that don't kill inspiration

Medicines definitely aren't always needed for sure. But they help a lot of people, and if you have severe enough executive function issues you really do benefit from medicine over most other natural things. I wouldn't urge anyone on ADHD medicine who's been thoroughly diagnosed not to take their medicine. Frankly because the worse parts of ADHD aren't the ones people see, they are the long term effects of being impulsive and bad with time; for long periods of time.
Ya I get that, in emergency situations they have a purpose like surgery. I've always trie to do things naturally all my life and so far so good. Best of luck and health to you man...
 
My best tip for falling asleep:
breathe evenly and slowly (roughly between 4 and 6 breath cycles per minute), and count down from 30 backwards, one number between breaths: breathe in, breathe out, 30, breathe in, breathe out, 29, breathe in, breathe out, 28... etc.. I've reached 1 only once. Does wonders for me, and I've tried lots of things.

I have supplements I take daily, like L-Theanine, Rhodiola, Ginko, B12 sublingual and fish oil (almost exact DHA to EPA ratio).
Maybe have your vitamin-D levels checked. Western lifestyles often lead to a deficiency, everyone that I know who had their levels checked was very deficient and started supplementing.

The only thing researchers think may happen is a reduced sensitivity to dopamine in the brain after long term use, and even that doesn't have substantial enough evidence to be a concern yet.
That sounds like it would be a pretty big deal if it's permanent though...

I've tried learned almost everything you can know about ADHD at this point, attended seminars, read tons of peer reviewed studies, and stay as up to date on research on it as possible.
I think you're 100% on the right track there, no doctor has time to put that much effort into keeping up with just one issue. I thought I had seen a study about structural brain changes from ADHD medication but the first study that I just googled paints a slightly different picture:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5082513/
Small samplesize though...

I met my doctor today and hearing my experience with Vyvanse he suggested I start on Adderall again, 10mg, and see how it goes for a week or so.
Did you read the patient information leaflet that comes with it (imho you should 100% read these for everything you get prescribed)? How long does it say it takes till initial side effects subside and positive effects engage? I haven't read any of these for ADHD meds yet, but for many many other neuro things it says 4 to 6 weeks before you even have a chance to get a positive effect. Side effects you can have from day 1, and not all of them will stay around, some will fade away over time.
 
This is from an addiction based site on abusing Adderall, not using a theraputic dose. The part before what you quoted puts that into context. There is a big difference between taking your prescribed amount and abusing it. This site/source isn't in relation to taking the medicine as instructed at a proper dose. Some people may take too much, but that's why you should always change medicine instead of bumping it up, that's also another reason most primary doctors can no longer prescribe it. Now only psychiatrist can (at least in my state), because they actively monitor you on it and shouldn't over-prescribe it. Once you get on a high enough dose you're getting into this territory. No studies related to taking theraputic doses support those claims. Most people seem to benefit from 10-30mg. Once you're above that I think its better to change medicines all together, but that's just my opinion.

I agree, all kinds of medicine get more dangerous the older you get. If you're taking ADHD medicine you shouldn't be ingesting caffeine at all. None. That's another way to make it hurt you long term, not taking it properly. It says on the instructions to avoid caffeine, why people ignore this I have no idea. That's asking for your heart to get wrecked.

Even if that happened to you, I'd be careful about blaming the medicine. There are a LOT of reasons you can have high blood pressure and hardened arteries, especially as you age. That stuff needs to be monitored more closely once you're past 40. Especially if you're a composer as well, its so easy to live a sedentary lifestyle in our profession. That combined with quick deadlines and stress will raise your BP so fast its insane.
Right. Amphetmaine (stimulants in general) abuse cause a lot of casualties among young people - mostly strokes and heart attacks. Does this mean adderal shouldnt be taken. Well first of all as you mentioned, dosage is important. Recreational use is totally differetn than normal therapeutic. Second one is follow up. If you are on meds your doc should monitor this.
 
I don't necessarily agree with that. Most of my doctors recommend everything but drugs. Though I was told to take D and B12. I actually have less pain and more energy when I take them regularly. I tend to forget to take them - I really suck at remembering to take pills. Probably good I'm not on any real medication.
 
I did look into it for a while, but never made a move on it. The results people shared and their special blends were way too dispersed imho. I never got to a place of trusting this particular solution. They seem to be really popular in the gyms. What kind of stack did you come up with?

there was a lot of that indeed in the forums. i bought the main ones from racetams type of nootropics and tried them individually. but there is little to no effect. from piracetam to aniracetam it was hard to get a feeling for them. and not sure if it was a thing where you conciously dont feel it but its working or something but i gave up before jumping into stacking and other things. it felt more like what i think of CBD and the "craze" of it. snake oil thing. like people commenting in blind preamp shootouts and choosing neve only after they know its neve. placebo effect. at least with caffeine+L-theanine i could easily feel both the cofee and l-theanine.
 
in general.. what i noticed in the US healthcare system... its that doctors really push drugs on patients. my wife went for a physical and saying she was a bit tired and the doctor gave her some anxiety type drug and antidepressants.... i forgot what brand and type but remember googling and seeing how addictive they are. people cannot just simply try them. its a whole life changing thing. i told her dont go for them... she got some sleep and that was it.
same w my parents.. they where immigrants from argentina and in argentina its like 1 psychologist/therapist per 3 citizens so its ingrained in them that therapy, pychotherapy and those type of drugs for the head are extremely normal and everyone needs to go to that doctor all the time. later i realized it was not the case with my friends, collegues and the general population so i decided to not do do that stuff and i was fine. i was starting to feel like i was crazy or something wrong with me. anyway, i think there are of course a case for therapy and those type of drugs but i also think its a balance and sometimes i get the feeling that doctors find the easiest solution which is those drugs. people lives are fine with it so they move on. get paid by the patient and get paid byt the drug companies. its just a mold which sometimes it works and sometimes it doesnt. with social media and posting annonimously we tend to go to extremes when its a large grey area. I dont know your or others situations. ADHD is not my forte but finding inspiration has been elusive so its the only part i can relate. and just as well the part of medications and the wary of US doctors who tend to over Rx. which i think is the main problem w the opiod epidemic (even though its a different topic).
 
there was a lot of that indeed in the forums. i bought the main ones from racetams type of nootropics and tried them individually. but there is little to no effect. from piracetam to aniracetam it was hard to get a feeling for them. and not sure if it was a thing where you conciously dont feel it but its working or something but i gave up before jumping into stacking and other things. it felt more like what i think of CBD and the "craze" of it. snake oil thing. like people commenting in blind preamp shootouts and choosing neve only after they know its neve. placebo effect. at least with caffeine+L-theanine i could easily feel both the cofee and l-theanine.

Yeah, those nootropics are a scam. But a lucrative one. Wish I was in nootropics sales. Hell, maybe I should get into it.
 
in general.. what i noticed in the US healthcare system... its that doctors really push drugs on patients. my wife went for a physical and saying she was a bit tired and the doctor gave her some anxiety type drug and antidepressants.... i forgot what brand and type but remember googling and seeing how addictive they are. people cannot just simply try them. its a whole life changing thing. i told her dont go for them... she got some sleep and that was it.

I do somewhat agree with you. That's why if you think you have ADHD you should go through a legit diagnosis. Not talking to your primary care doctor and taking a 6 question test haha. If you're doing the whole trifecta of therapist (referral), psychiatrist (medicine), and psychologist (specific ADHD tests) then your diagnosis is most likely correct. I had to take a ton of tests, had my doctor talk to my friends/family, and there has to be a clear indication of ADHD when you're a child. Otherwise nope, you got something else going on.

Primary care doctors are notorious for knowing very little about mental disorders. There is just too much stuff to learn for 1 doctor to know it all. Specialists at least have a better idea of what they're talking about. Then if you get a specialist in your specific issue you're solid.

Now paying for all of this stuff... that's a whole different subject haha, and the worst part. Good thing I have health insurance
 
I can use myself as substantial evidence. I was on dexedrine for years and it totally f'd me up physically. It left me with high blood pressure and hardened arteries -- with a low daily dose. Here's some more misinformation:

https://americanaddictioncenters.org/adderall/side-effects

"Stimulants such as Adderall raise blood pressure, body temperature, and heart rate, keeping users awake and stimulated while suppressing appetites. Regular use or abuse of Adderall can make changes in the structures of the brain and change the way emotions are regulated. They can also be hard on the heart muscles, lungs, vascular system, and other internal organs."

Of course everyone is different, and some may not suffer adverse effects. I personally think it gets more dangerous the older you get, especially if you're adding alcohol and caffeine in to the mix.

Yes, these are good points too. I have been off Adderall for 3 years now. Just started again this morning after consulting with my doc. I usually have lower blood pressure than higher. My heart rate jumped to 110 on Vyvanse. I don't experience that with Adderall.

I used to drink a pit of coffee every day. Now, if I drink one full cup it's a lot. But I will have to stop using Monster drinks (1 a day mixed with juice). I'm 62. 10mg XR to start with, and I didn't go beyond that for years.

Believe me, I've been reading on this for years, watching videos and following ADHD experts (Barkley, Parker, Amen, Hallowell, Pera, etc). Medication was at the bottom of my list. I use supplements daily as well.

:)
 
My best tip for falling asleep:
breathe evenly and slowly (roughly between 4 and 6 breath cycles per minute), and count down from 30 backwards, one number between breaths: breathe in, breathe out, 30, breathe in, breathe out, 29, breathe in, breathe out, 28... etc.. I've reached 1 only once. Does wonders for me, and I've tried lots of things.

Yes, great idea. I do breathing exercises almost every night before sleep. I do find it helps.

Maybe have your vitamin-D levels checked. Western lifestyles often lead to a deficiency, everyone that I know who had their levels checked was very deficient and started supplementing.

Ah, I forget that one. I do have D3 here I often take. My latest tests showed pretty good across the board.

Did you read the patient information leaflet that comes with it (imho you should 100% read these for everything you get prescribed)? How long does it say it takes till initial side effects subside and positive effects engage? I haven't read any of these for ADHD meds yet, but for many many other neuro things it says 4 to 6 weeks before you even have a chance to get a positive effect. Side effects you can have from day 1, and not all of them will stay around, some will fade away over time.

Yes I do read, but everyone metabolism is different and the side-effects usually try to cover everything (even death). That's why doctors usually say "try this for a while and report back." The effects of stimulants are pretty quick to show, much faster than anti-depressants. That's why the doc want me to start with Adderall and see if that addresses the issues I am dealing with.

In a few weeks, if needed, we'd add something else. But my hope is that I'll only need Adderall. Tweaking meds can take a while to find the right one/dosage. And that can also change over time so that you need to add something or increase a dosage. I hope I won't have to.

Even if it wasn't concerns for creativity and focus (many deal with this differently as well, stress and bad life habits, substance abuse, self-sabotage, etc), I still live too isolated, and wish I'd be more involved in the community or with humanitarian projects. But, eh. One step at a time. :)
 
This is what I was concerned about.

10561623_729647560424856_5136929519118964953_n.jpg

But after Day #1 back on Adderall, supplements, forest bathing and playing piano, I think I'll be fine. I think it's the anti-depressant that messes most with the creative spark (in my case, anyway) :) Of course this is only day #1, but what a contrast with Vyvanse.

Thanks to all who chimed in publicly and privately, it was enlightening and encouraging. Health concerns affect so many people, it's good to read about other people's journey.

Cheers,

Andre
 
I walk in a little fake forest in Central Park, Manhattan. Every day. I birdwatch. I recommend the endorphins and the clean outdoor air. I feel pretty good.

On the other hand, I'm 65 and have been self medicating with whiskey most of my life, so don't listen to a word I say.

My son drinks that Monster crap-isn't that, like, double caffeine?
 
Then there's this, indeed, anyone looking into medical use of marijuana and its derivatives, should be sure of their provenance. Always work with supervision from a health professional, imho.

(CNN) A drug called K2 is believed to be behind more than 100 overdoses in New Haven, Connecticut, this week. Some of those who overdosed experienced speeding heart rates, difficulty breathing and vomiting. Others were found collapsed in a semiconscious or unconscious state on the New Haven Green, the downtown park.

Although no deaths were reported, two people experienced serious, life-threatening consequences. Earlier this year, K2 was also tied to 56 cases of severe bleeding, including four deaths, across Chicago and central Illinois. In a separate incident, 33 people collapsed on the streets of New York City. A July report from the US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention indicated that the number of K2 poisonings rose sharply over the past year.

So what is this drug that is causing all this mayhem?



More than 90 people overdosed on K2 in one New Haven park


'A different animal altogether'
"The nomenclature 'synthetic marijuana' is really incorrect. These things are not synthetic marijuana, and I worry using this term might give the wrong impression, especially to young people," said Mike Baumann, chief of the Designer Drug Research Unit at the National Institute on Drug Abuse.

K2 or "spice" is a mixture of herbs, spices or shredded plant material that has been sprayed with chemicals that are similar to but not the same as THC, the psychoactive ingredient in marijuana. Sometimes, K2 comes in liquid form to be vaporized in e-cigarettes. It is also smoked in joints or pipes or made into a tea.

https://www.cnn.com/2018/08/18/health/k2-synthetic-weed-explainer/index.html
 
Then there's this, indeed, anyone looking into medical use of marijuana and its derivatives, should be sure of their provenance. Always work with supervision from a health professional, imho.

(CNN) A drug called K2 is believed to be behind more than 100 overdoses in New Haven, Connecticut, this week. Some of those who overdosed experienced speeding heart rates, difficulty breathing and vomiting. Others were found collapsed in a semiconscious or unconscious state on the New Haven Green, the downtown park.

Although no deaths were reported, two people experienced serious, life-threatening consequences. Earlier this year, K2 was also tied to 56 cases of severe bleeding, including four deaths, across Chicago and central Illinois. In a separate incident, 33 people collapsed on the streets of New York City. A July report from the US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention indicated that the number of K2 poisonings rose sharply over the past year.

So what is this drug that is causing all this mayhem?



More than 90 people overdosed on K2 in one New Haven park


'A different animal altogether'
"The nomenclature 'synthetic marijuana' is really incorrect. These things are not synthetic marijuana, and I worry using this term might give the wrong impression, especially to young people," said Mike Baumann, chief of the Designer Drug Research Unit at the National Institute on Drug Abuse.

K2 or "spice" is a mixture of herbs, spices or shredded plant material that has been sprayed with chemicals that are similar to but not the same as THC, the psychoactive ingredient in marijuana. Sometimes, K2 comes in liquid form to be vaporized in e-cigarettes. It is also smoked in joints or pipes or made into a tea.

https://www.cnn.com/2018/08/18/health/k2-synthetic-weed-explainer/index.html
That is really scary. You think of marijuana as a fairly safe drug, compared to a lot of the other stuff out there. At least no more dangerous than alcohol. They recently started selling recreational marijuana here in California. I haven't taken advantage of it yet, but I would hope that legalizing it makes it a little more regulated as far as what they sell so you don't get stuff like K2.
 
That is really scary. You think of marijuana as a fairly safe drug, compared to a lot of the other stuff out there. At least no more dangerous than alcohol. They recently started selling recreational marijuana here in California. I haven't taken advantage of it yet, but I would hope that legalizing it makes it a little more regulated as far as what they sell so you don't get stuff like K2.

Definitely!
 
Here in germany we had a big problem with spice for a while before they delegalizef it. Imo cannabis is way more dangerous than most people think. Not physically but mentally. Schizophrenia and amotivational syndrome are often caused by longtime usage
 
Here in germany we had a big problem with spice for a while before they delegalizef it. Imo cannabis is way more dangerous than most people think. Not physically but mentally. Schizophrenia and amotivational syndrome are often caused by longtime usage
From what I've read, this is not necessarily true. The problem is heavy users of cannibis tend to have problems to start with, so they can't say for sure that cannibis caused the problem. But it may exacerbate it, or cause it to show up quicker. Really, it is no different than being a heavy user of alcohol. Moderation is best. Self medicating your problems away never works.
 
Hello Andre..

I can feel what you are going through..
But I'm not sure ADHD medication is the cause of it.. it might be the other medication being prescribed with it or something in your diet interacting with it.
for my Vyvanse was bliss.. I cannot live without it because at a certain age and after going through years of stress due to life-threatening political circumstances, it takes a huge toll on ones health to the point that I had chronic fatigue for years that made me feel like I'm 90 years old. Vyvanse alone cleared away all the anxiety and fatigue and helped me spring to life again and be more inspired and creative in my field.. which is not music.. as I'm still a newbie here.
The anxiety you had might be due to a high dose of Vyvanse.. maybe you could try with the help of a specialist taking the lowest dose possible and building it up to the point that you can tolerate without getting anxiety.
also a very important factor .. is that Vyvanse interact in an unpredictable way with food and supplements.. never take it with any acidic food as it prevents it from being metabolised. also supplements like Ginseng, fish oil, ashwaghanda , and even chai spices and nutmeg.. all cancel out the effect of Vyvanse and leave only increased side effects.
 
The anxiety you had might be due to a high dose of Vyvanse.. maybe you could try with the help of a specialist taking the lowest dose possible and building it up to the point that you can tolerate without getting anxiety.
That was my assessment, too high a dose to start with. But as a former drug addict, it freaked me out enough to keep me away. So the plan is to try again eventually when I feel ready (and because some people here had to wait 10 years before finding a doctor).

As far as fish oil interacting with Vyvanse? I never heard that. Especially since Omegas are highly recommended for ADHD. But I looked into it and found this pretty detailed list of interactions to watch for. Stopping or distancing the intake may work.


Cheers and thanks for chiming in. 90 yo? I hope to make it as far! :)

Andre
 
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