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Aaron Venture Infinite Brass

aaronventure

Senior Member
After a few tries I realized that I cannot use Snapshot function in Kontakt to reload my settings on the new version, it change something under the hood and I don't use the 1.2 version. With Tenor Trombones by loading previous settings I get an out of tune result with the instrument.

So as an advice don't use snapshot with every update, you have to setup your instruments manually. ;)
I can't seem to be able to reproduce this, Snapshot works normally for me. Have you tried re-initialization (the big exclamation mark in the top right corner of Kontakt)? That should work.

So basically, if I take the 1.2 folder, copy-paste its contents into the 1.1 folder, then point Kontakt to that folder, then load the instruments from Kontakt afresh, I'll have 1.2 right?
Don't just load the projects, you have to manually swap in the instruments. Else you won't be at either 1.1 or 1.2, but somewhere closer to 0.5 since having re-adjusted samples (especially horns) used with 1.1 .nkis in absolutely not what is intended :grin:

BTW I never checked out the "Chorus" effect on the horns. What does that button do?
It turns the chorus effect on, that I think can sometimes work on horns (because of their indirect sound and the fact that IRs are static) for some sound-design purposes, so I included it. If you own any better-quality chorus plugins like SoundToys, go for that instead.
 

DANIELE

Active Member
I can't seem to be able to reproduce this, Snapshot works normally for me. Have you tried re-initialization (the big exclamation mark in the top right corner of Kontakt)? That should work.
I didn't try it, I didn't think about it. But by loading settings of the previous version on the new instrument cause me different issues. One of them is the out of tune for Trombones, another is the character menu that change nothing etc...
Anyway I already replaced all the instruments with 1.2 ones.

I'll try to reset as you suggest for the next update or maybe on one of the instruments to try if it works.
 

gfcgfc

New Member
Hi Aaron,
I bought the library last sunday and to date I'm very happy with playability and the tone is ok with some minor eq tweaking (very good job on horns in 1.2 btw).

I have a request... not sure about feasibility, but is it possibile to have an option to exclude smart legato but not attack dynamics ? In this way you can play polyphonically and in the mean time have the benefit to control attack dynamics through velocity (very natural control way on shorts).

Thanks
GF

P.S. Your engine seems to be ready for woodwinds.....
 

aaronventure

Senior Member
Hi Aaron,
I bought the library last sunday and to date I'm very happy with playability and the tone is ok with some minor eq tweaking (very good job on horns in 1.2 btw).
Yeah, I'm very happy with how 1.2 rounded out and re-balanced everything, and I can safely say that EQing now is entirely subjective (much like I use an EQ on almost every single other library). I would still say that dropping tape on top of the bus is mandatory to add that small amount of noise to the overall output, which won't really be there (like in normal recordings) since the output is the result of convolution.

I have a request... not sure about feasibility, but is it possibile to have an option to exclude smart legato but not attack dynamics ? In this way you can play polyphonically and in the mean time have the benefit to control attack dynamics through velocity (very natural control way on shorts).
I thought about that. The thing is that when you play a soft attack, you're not getting a pre-recorded soft attack or a filter sweeping to fake it out. Rather, the script is moving through the dynamic layers, and taking into account moment-to-moment CC1 changes as well as vibrato (if it's playing) until it arrives at your current CC1 value over the period you dialed in with the "Cresc. Time" knob. So if you were playing polyphonically, introducing new notes at lower/higher velocities would duck/accent your entire output.

"Legato Bypass" is named that way for clarity - the intent that I stand behind is "sketch mode", so you can preview chords without having to manually play them in first. If you're sketching, sketch it out that way, then play in each line into a different solo instrument. Because if you do play chords on a single one, all of these voices get the exact same breath fluctuation, near-exact same pitch fluctuation and the exact same dynamic curve (including attack dynamics), so you're already almost 3 full factors away from "natural".

P.S. Your engine seems to be ready for woodwinds.....
Some minor adjustments were made, but mostly yes. The woods are ~60% done. And the instrument list is pretty massive.
 

DANIELE

Active Member
Some minor adjustments were made, but mostly yes. The woods are ~60% done. And the instrument list is pretty massive.
OMG, can't wait!! Please tell me that you are working on a string library too, I hardly need a solo/ensemble library like this.
 

I like music

Senior Member
Yeah, I'm very happy with how 1.2 rounded out and re-balanced everything, and I can safely say that EQing now is entirely subjective (much like I use an EQ on almost every single other library). I would still say that dropping tape on top of the bus is mandatory to add that small amount of noise to the overall output, which won't really be there (like in normal recordings) since the output is the result of convolution.


I thought about that. The thing is that when you play a soft attack, you're not getting a pre-recorded soft attack or a filter sweeping to fake it out. Rather, the script is moving through the dynamic layers, and taking into account moment-to-moment CC1 changes as well as vibrato (if it's playing) until it arrives at your current CC1 value over the period you dialed in with the "Cresc. Time" knob. So if you were playing polyphonically, introducing new notes at lower/higher velocities would duck/accent your entire output.

"Legato Bypass" is named that way for clarity - the intent that I stand behind is "sketch mode", so you can preview chords without having to manually play them in first. If you're sketching, sketch it out that way, then play in each line into a different solo instrument. Because if you do play chords on a single one, all of these voices get the exact same breath fluctuation, near-exact same pitch fluctuation and the exact same dynamic curve (including attack dynamics), so you're already almost 3 full factors away from "natural".


Some minor adjustments were made, but mostly yes. The woods are ~60% done. And the instrument list is pretty massive.
Shit! How long will it take to go from 60% to 100%?! Sooner you let us know, the sooner I can plan to save/buy other things, because I'm very very curious about the woods.
 

aaronventure

Senior Member
OMG, can't wait!! Please tell me that you are working on a string library too, I hardly need a solo/ensemble library like this.
Not yet, but I'll start working after Infinite Woodwinds are done. There's some ground to break there (autodivisi, scalable sections), but the core concepts will stay the same: playability, positioning, space choice, low-resource.

Shit! How long will it take to go from 60% to 100%?! Sooner you let us know, the sooner I can plan to save/buy other things, because I'm very very curious about the woods.
I'll be bold and say early April. It's 3 Flutes, 1 piccolo, 1 alto, 1 bass, 3 oboes, 1 bass oboe, 1 cor anglais, 3 clarinets, 1 bass clarinet, 1 contrabass clarinet, 3 bassoons, 1 contrabassoon, 2 soprano saxes, 2 alto saxes, 2 tenor saxes, 2 baritone saxes. So 60% is still some ways off from being done :grin:

It won't cost more than Infinite Brass, that's 100% sure.
 

DANIELE

Active Member
Not yet, but I'll start working after Infinite Woodwinds are done. There's some ground to break there (autodivisi, scalable sections), but the core concepts will stay the same: playability, positioning, space choice, low-resource.


I'll be bold and say early April. It's 3 Flutes, 1 piccolo, 1 alto, 1 bass, 3 oboes, 1 bass oboe, 1 cor anglais, 3 clarinets, 1 bass clarinet, 1 contrabass clarinet, 3 bassoons, 1 contrabassoon, 2 soprano saxes, 2 alto saxes, 2 tenor saxes, 2 baritone saxes. So 60% is still some ways off from being done :grin:

It won't cost more than Infinite Brass, that's 100% sure.

Great, I truly need strings. It is expected some sort of price reduction for them who bought Infinite Brass?

About the strings auto-divisi is a great thing but I'd think about dynamic ensemble, like the concept from Chris Hein libraries. You could have some type of controller that change the number of instruments in your patch, so you could choose from 1 to maybe 12, or 18 or similar.
So maybe with two or three track per section (to have independent lines) one could build all the string section.
For strings you have to take in mind bow direction, pressure (going from flautando to sforzando) and so on.
You have to take care also of the plucking and maybe bartok pizzicato etc...

I'm dreaming about a library like this literally every day!! :D

EDIT
Also, do you think about some kind of expansions for IB (for example Cimbasso and some other special instrument)?
 
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aaronventure

Senior Member
It is expected some sort of price reduction for them who bought Infinite Brass?
Yeah, there'll be a lower price for Woodwinds as well.

About the strings auto-divisi is a great thing but I'd think about dynamic ensemble, like the concept from Chris Hein libraries. You could have some type of controller that change the number of instruments in your patch, so you could choose from 1 to maybe 12, or 18 or similar.
So maybe with two or three track per section (to have independent lines) one could build all the string section.
For strings you have to take in mind bow direction, pressure (going from flautando to sforzando) and so on.
You have to take care also of the plucking and maybe bartok pizzicato etc...
I do have the concepts down but I haven't started actual work on it, as I've said. But I plan for it to be pretty much what you described, with a pretty small RAM footprint.

Also, do you think about some kind of expansions for IB (for example Cimbasso and some other special instrument)
Yes, I plan to eventually record and release additional instruments, like an Euphonium or two, a Bass Trumpet, a Piccolo Trumpet, and a couple of Wagner Tubas, and possibly Cimbassos as well.

These will be released as a free update to all Infinite Brass owners and will become a part of the standard Infinite Brass lineup (no price increase or anything).

That should be somewhere around May/June.
 

DANIELE

Active Member
Yeah, there'll be a lower price for Woodwinds as well.



I do have the concepts down but I haven't started actual work on it, as I've said. But I plan for it to be pretty much what you described, with a pretty small RAM footprint.


Yes, I plan to eventually record and release additional instruments, like an Euphonium or two, a Bass Trumpet, a Piccolo Trumpet, and a couple of Wagner Tubas, and possibly Cimbassos as well.

These will be released as a free update to all Infinite Brass owners and will become a part of the standard Infinite Brass lineup (no price increase or anything).

That should be somewhere around May/June.
Well...I'm speechless, can't wait to try your new libraries and give some feedbacks to you.
 

DANIELE

Active Member
Is there someone that could imitate this two passages and tell me how he did it and with what instruments of this awesome library?

Here the brass that play at 00:08...


...and here the brass that play at 00:45

Thank you.
 

aaronventure

Senior Member
Here's a quick take on the line from "On The Inside". I used an EQ on the trombones to get closer to the reference. There's also tape on top of it all, and some mild, high-attack compression. You'll find MIDI in the attachment.

[AUDIOPLUS=https://vi-control.net/community/attachments/on-the-inside-infinite-brass-low-brass-marcato-mp3.18632/][/AUDIOPLUS]

upload_2019-2-24_23-18-59.png

Trombone mix (Horn mix is the default one)
upload_2019-2-24_23-19-15.png
 

Attachments

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DANIELE

Active Member
Wow, thank you Aaron, sounds great!! I fear a little the EQ, a very elaborate one. The library sounds great on its own but it is incredible what you could do with it.

About TAPE (is it the waves one?), I never used it, what kind of settings do you use?

Did you use only three trombones? Could you share (even with an image) the automation under this?

And finally, do you think to add some more on the fly EQ preset on your instruments? Like this maybe, this library is very flexible.
 

aaronventure

Senior Member
About TAPE (is it the waves one?), I never used it, what kind of settings do you use?
I used Slate Digital VTM here. It's quite subtle, but it does add a small amount of noise that's present in recordings but isn't with Infinite Brass.

Did you use only three trombones? Could you share (even with an image) the automation under this?
4 Horns, 2 Tenor Bones, 2 Bass Bones, and a Tuba. If I were orchestrating this, I'd put at least one horn there. Since the passage is really low, the Trombones are easily overpowering the horns down there so I played in 4 :grin:. It's a guess.

You can find the ZIP of all the MIDI files in the attachment of my post. It's the 8 KB one. Default CC mappings, but I only used CC1 and CC21 anyway.

And finally, do you think to add some more on the fly EQ preset on your instruments? Like this maybe, this library is very flexible.
I'll try out this one on all the instruments and if it's alright, I'll add it.
 

DANIELE

Active Member
Great Aaron, I'll look at it and let you know. Since I'm composing a track where I'm trying different techniques and your instruments if you don't mind I'll post other feedback like this here.

Thank you. :)
 

DANIELE

Active Member
Ok, may I ask to play the staccatos immediately after this theme in the same piece ("On The Inside" from 00:54)?

I'm trying to achieve a dark staccato cluster similar to this.

Or maybe something like this (from 1:29 till 02:12 where different underlying rhythm are heard):


I'm trying to get the same effect without being metallic or too fake. It is not so easy because it is a sort of blown and I need to understand well how to get it through automations and the right instruments.

I don't want to use some ensemble patch, I'd like to get it by using "true" single instruments.

Thank you so much.
 
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aaronventure

Senior Member
Ok, may I ask to play the staccatos immediately after this theme in the same piece ("On The Inside" from 00:54)?
That's just three trumpets doing a Gm chord in close voicing. The Maze Runner track also sounds like trombones in closed voicing.

For these shorts, you'll find yourself in a lot of work if you want to dial them in manually unless your DAW can humanize MIDI events, because the three main factors in Infinite Brass are Dynamics, Note Velocity and Note Duration. So you're best off slowing the tempo down, playing them in to get all the different note durations and velocities. If you can play these in at normal tempo, more power to you :grin:

As I've said, I prefer having the Cresc. Time knob almost all the way down (~5%) for trumpets since for me it makes it easier to play these fanfarish shorts.

No EQ, slightly lowered Amb mic and a small amount of LXPHall added on top.
[AUDIOPLUS=https://vi-control.net/community/attachments/trumpet-gm-mp3.18657/][/AUDIOPLUS]

MIDI in the attachment as well, but that's pretty straightforward.
 

Attachments

DANIELE

Active Member
That's just three trumpets doing a Gm chord in close voicing. The Maze Runner track also sounds like trombones in closed voicing.

For these shorts, you'll find yourself in a lot of work if you want to dial them in manually unless your DAW can humanize MIDI events, because the three main factors in Infinite Brass are Dynamics, Note Velocity and Note Duration. So you're best off slowing the tempo down, playing them in to get all the different note durations and velocities. If you can play these in at normal tempo, more power to you :grin:

As I've said, I prefer having the Cresc. Time knob almost all the way down (~5%) for trumpets since for me it makes it easier to play these fanfarish shorts.

No EQ, slightly lowered Amb mic and a small amount of LXPHall added on top.
[AUDIOPLUS=https://vi-control.net/community/attachments/trumpet-gm-mp3.18657/][/AUDIOPLUS]

MIDI in the attachment as well, but that's pretty straightforward.
Thank you Aaron. I feel this question a lot because I tried with many libraries to build some realistic staccatos but everytime I can't achieve enough power: with "classic" sample libraries I have to deal with short articulations and almost everytime I fall in RR or "too long articulation" issues that make this parts sounds fake. With modeled libraries like SM one in can't get a more organic sound even if I feel I could. Strong is this feeling (that I could) with your library. :grin:

So I'm already trying to play with Cresc. Time knob to manage the attack with velocity, what is bothering me is how to deal with automations, because even if the note is pretty short I have to simulate the blowing on it to get this nasty strong sound.

When I'll be back at home I'll listen to your example here and I'll try to get it with low brass. So do you think that I can achieve this sound only with trombones in low register in closed voicings (that makes sense because of the muddy sound with c.v. in low registers).
I'm still concerned with automations though! I don't think I can play this short at normal speed, and I think I could loose the result by slowing down everything (since I have to slow down it a lot :D).

Anyway, I hardly need a tutorial for the articulation performance with your library (but I understand it requires a lot of time to be built).
 
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