What's new

Aaron Venture Infinite Brass

ZeeCount

Member
The room and body that Christian mentions in his video (thank you Noam :) )
The issue I take with that video, is that Christian just used a single reverb. You can quite very similar results to the tree mic by cascading a smaller, completely wet reverb, into a larger one. The smaller reverb creates the body you are describing, and the larger one creates the feeling of the tail in the hall.
 

leon chevalier

Piano roll musician
The issue I take with that video, is that Christian just used a single reverb. You can quite very similar results to the tree mic by cascading a smaller, completely wet reverb, into a larger one. The smaller reverb creates the body you are describing, and the larger one creates the feeling of the tail in the hall.
It's my way of doing it to, a short convo and an algo for the tail. I've made some tutorials (for SM but it applies to all dry instrument) about it :
and

But I'm not 100% happy about the sound, for the all the reasons discussed in this thread.
 

AlexanderSchiborr

Senior Member
It's my way of doing it to, a short convo and an algo for the tail. I've made some tutorials (for SM but it applies to all dry instrument) about it :
and

But I'm not 100% happy about the sound, for the all the reasons discussed in this thread.


Nice tutorial and good information there. I like also to do tests with SM picking up a famous line and see what I can do with it.
Here is my take on the vader march with SM.

 
Last edited:

ZeeCount

Member
@All: Aaron is already working on some improvements. I am getting these days something to betatest for the trombones.





Nice tutorial and good information there. I like also to do tests with SM picking up a famous line and see what I can do with it.
Here is my take on the vader march with SM.

I have to admit... that sounds a lot better than the one you posted in the Infinite Brass comercial thread. Excellent work.
 

AlexanderSchiborr

Senior Member
Sounds great! What did you do to make this sound?
Lots of eq..roll of the lows, roll of the highs, attenuating the mids on trombones and trumpets, but the more I dive into sm, I realize also you need to perform it right, so that means to ride a lot of controller curves, which imo very important. So I used here not only CC1, CC11, but also Growl, Buzz, Pitch fluctuation, detuning, and Dynamics to pitch and each instruments has these controllers performed in a different way. Thats quite some work because you have for every instrument like 6 controllers..Another point is that you need a reference to work with in order to have a perspective of the sound. Also mid / side eq is good to get ride a bit of the mid centered frequencies quite a bit.
 

Saxer

Senior Member
Absolutely worth the work! A lot of that work is already done when using a wind controller. There's always pitch fluctuation and playing 'dirty' is easier than playing tight (because of the latency). But editing wind controller data is very tricky because it's a hell of CC and pitch and dead notes and the you can't quantize because of disconnecting the breath curves from the notes. And those triple tongues are not possible to play... it's too slow. So it's always a combination of playing and constructing.
 

aaronventure

Senior Member
One complaint is that the french horn attacks (with the mod wheel all the way down) don't sound as dynamic as the rest of the instruments. They seem to have more of a sudden jump in attack, almost like it goes straight from mf to ff. Or maybe it's just the dynamic curve that feels different. It's harder to get the nice punchy short notes.
Something I'll be looking into as well.

Also, I wish there was a way to control the volume of the glissando transitions. If you play a note with the mod wheel up high and then play a low velocity legato note to trigger a gliss, the volume dips way down during the gliss and it sounds silly.
You mean how much the dynamics dip during a transition on a low velocity note for intervals of 3 semitones and fewer? This is doable, I could look to push this to all instruments in the next update, or the one after. Good call.
 

aaronventure

Senior Member
so sticking the mic in the bell of a tuba, for ex., is probably not the best choice since the lowest frequencies wouldn't have a chance to full develop before they hit the mic
You can bump up the lowest overtone for each note manually. You can't, however, create the highest overtones that got air-absorbed out of thin air or boost them without also boosting the noise from the recording.

Lower frequencies build up much more easily in a room. It's why an impulse response that's recorded at a longer distance in a bigger room than something relatively close will have more lower end.

The room and body that Christian mentions in his video (thank you Noam :) )
They would be just detailed EQ presets. They wouldn't add more reflections or change the existing ones, they would just change the tone (see . I'm afraid that dampening or even multiband dampening like you have in standalone convolution reverbs won't be available until it's implemented in Kontakt's convolution unit.
 

Paul T McGraw

Senior Member
@christianhenson no longer posts here sadly but this conversation reminded me of a video he made. You don't have to agree but it's an interesting argument:

(5:24)

I would be more convinced if he had matched volumes. With the volumes so much different it is hard to compare. I have Spitfire Orchestra, Berlin Brass and several dry libraries. When I match volumes and also match reverb qualitiy the differences seem to melt away. There are still some very subtle differences of course, but not a huge difference as Christian seems to want us to think.
 

Henu

Senior Member
Concerning Christian's video and the coincidence that I've been trying to replicate the AIR (+ some others) room sound on different libraries (OR dry Spitfire Instruments from woodwinds to brass and back) for fun for the whole weekend, I disagree with him to an extent.

Not only weren't his sounds level-matched, but what he did was just slapping a lazy hall reverb to the dry tuba (which is, as he also stated, pretty much the hardest thing you could pick up for a comparison like this), playing a couple of notes and called it a day. As anyone could hear, the EQ curve was already completely different on the dry sound, so of course it doesn't sound like the real deal. You can pretty much 90% replicate the sound of tree mikes with very precise and time-consuming EQ and reverberation- but in general it takes about three different reverbs (distance, ER, tail) which also need to be EQ'd properly. And still, you will lack some of the depth and certain "3d" on the sound.

Most certainly, it is doable to be way more closer than what Christian did.
But is it worth it? For me, when mixing libraries and being able to put them to the same room convincingly enough (and especially a room of my own preference) no matter the library: absolutely.
For someone else it might be just waste of time and utter nerdism and/or autism. I'm kind of a geek in this area and one of my personal interests in audio production (which I also do for my living when I'm not composing) is to replicate things as accurately as I can, so I take these things more as a challenge instead of an utopistic idea.

EDIT:

Here are two examples I quickly did, noodling around with Skyrim theme.

The Brass is tree vs. close mic faked and the Flute is the same thing. Besides the EQ and the space, the stereo image is also bit different in close mics so there are a lot of moving parts to consider. It's nowhere near perfect and I'm still tweaking the sound as we speak, but I think it's close enough to prove Christian wrong. :D

[AUDIOPLUS=https://vi-control.net/community/attachments/brass-mp3.16834/][/AUDIOPLUS]

[AUDIOPLUS=https://vi-control.net/community/attachments/flute1-mp3.16835/][/AUDIOPLUS]

EDIT 2: Goddamn the close flute mike has quite a lot of "mouth" in it, haha!
 

Attachments

Last edited:

Karl Feuerstake

Active Member
I wasnt going to reply to this thread to avoid too much controversy... but i'll give a brief input. People who have tight deadlines and need to produce music by tomorrow can't spend all day finding and preparing the perfect reverb. Thats why I prefer wet, baked-in sounds - no messing around, just instant perfection working right out of the box.

I understand and appreciate that others may enjoy writing as a hobby and have the time to fiddle around. And to that I say, have fun :)
 

AlexanderSchiborr

Senior Member
I wasnt going to reply to this thread to avoid too much controversy... but i'll give a brief input. People who have tight deadlines and need to produce music by tomorrow can't spend all day finding and preparing the perfect reverb. Thats why I prefer wet, baked-in sounds - no messing around, just instant perfection working right out of the box.

I understand and appreciate that others may enjoy writing as a hobby and have the time to fiddle around. And to that I say, have fun :)
why? You can always reply and tell your opinion. But just to demystify that thing that instant gratification is mostly tied to baked in verb. I am working (for quite some time) not as a hobby musician and fiddling around with verbs isn´t always for people who do that just as a hobby. I may agree that samples with baked in verb give you a specific sound and "here we go ambience" which in case its needed for the project is good, but its not always like that. And there are certainly more factors which are important when it comes to production value. :) (just my opinion of course..)
 
Last edited:

Karl Feuerstake

Active Member
why? You can always reply and tell your opinion. But just to demystify that thing that instant gratification is mostly tied to baked in verb. I am working (for quite some time) not as a hobby musician and fiddling around with verbs isn´t always for people who do that just as a hobby. I may agree that samples with baked in verb give you a specific sound and "here we go ambience" which in case its needed for the project is good, but its not always like that. And there are certainly more factors which are important when it comes to production value. :) (just my opinion of course..)
I don't have the time or patience for that :P
 

miket

Senior Member
I wasnt going to reply to this thread to avoid too much controversy... but i'll give a brief input. People who have tight deadlines and need to produce music by tomorrow can't spend all day finding and preparing the perfect reverb. Thats why I prefer wet, baked-in sounds - no messing around, just instant perfection working right out of the box.

I understand and appreciate that others may enjoy writing as a hobby and have the time to fiddle around. And to that I say, have fun :)
True.

Even without deadlines, some of us just want a good, baseline sound so we can focus entirely on the music.

I used to think I had the patience and interest required to tinker and inch asymptotically towards my idea of a good sound. I was mistaken. ;)
 

DANIELE

Active Member
Sorry, I post it here:

Hi Aaron, could I ask you to make a tutorial to show how to achieve special effects (like rips and other FX) and maybe think to an articulation parallel method to achieve some of this easily, like with SM Brass?

I can't wait for the updates to come. I'm enjoying your library and trying to set it up for my template.

Thank you.
 
Last edited:
Top Bottom