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A question On Orchestral Tools Samples

Chungus

Active Member
I've been looking at/reading some reviews on OT libraries, and some things that came up more than once were mentions of faults in the strings and brass libraries. Being some odd-sounding RRs in BS, hall noises being baked in to the recordings of the 1st chairs, inconsistent dynamic layers in the brass.


So, my question to those who own these libraries; are these issues still a thing, or have they since been fixed? And also, are there any other issues that are still around?
 
if you for some reason dislike an RR you can disable it.

first chairs are literally first chairs, and recorded in a hall, so not sure what you mean there

brass layers are fine, most people complain that the top dynamic on sustains isn't fff. IIRC naom tweaked his cc1 curves for them to be more homogeneous on their sustains - but the effect is pretty minor, and if you're playing the parts in manually instead of programming then it's completely redundant.

hope that helps
 
if you for some reason dislike an RR you can disable it.

How do I disable individual RR samples in MA1 without disabling more than absolutely necessary? I'm only aware of disabling RR layers in sync for all notes, which doesn't solve it at all because the ones I don't like aren't all in the same layers/slots, and there are quite a lot that I don't like in for example the low strings. Some sound bad, some have incorrect sample start positions leading to big timing inconsistencies.

The other method (that imho doesn't work either and would be an absolute pain in the ass) that I found was manually resetting RRs position and triggering a number of 0 velocity notes to move the RR position to the right slot and/or skip the bad ones. You'd need to tweak other settings to make sure the 0 velocity samples don't get actually audibly played, which by default they will. Makes it a nightmare to see in the piano roll what the instruments are actually supposed to be playing. Utterly impractical imho.

Another way that I could think of would be loading a single articulation patch as often as there are RR layers and assigning them to individual midi channels, and only activating one RR layer per patch to be able to manually pick your RR samples. I didn't test this because it too sounds like a pain in the ass and I want to use midi channels for articulation switching.

Am I missing a method that is more convenient and practical?
 
Ark 1 is supposed to sound unruly and aggressive, ive never felt the need to disable an RR from it. If you want smooth - buy berlin strings? The QA is a whole lot different considering they are dedicated libraries that cost more than an entire Ark on their own - and unlike Ark - it's designed to be versitile.

The more practical thing if a particular sample bothers you - is to just disable it whenever it comes up in a phrase, render in place, then re-enable it. It's probably possible to open up the instrument, delete the mapping group on those 2 semitones and extend the above and below ranges a half step a piece.

I use the attack knob on OT libraries, so it's entirely possible whatever ugly sound you're hearing that I'm not is simply because of that. In my opinion it sounds more massive that way anyways - so maybe that's a solution worth exploring.

Honestly if you can show me an example of how you're using it - and leave the "unbearable" round robins in - I'd appreciate it.
 
I have Berlin Brass, Cinebrass and Cinematic Studio Brass. If you're looking for a consistent library go for CSS. The sound and concept of BB is great but the inconsistency in dynamics and heavy cpu load is unbearable, especially for that price. And no, updates didn't fix this.
 
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Ark 1 is supposed to sound unruly and aggressive, ive never felt the need to disable an RR from it. If you want smooth - buy berlin strings? The QA is a whole lot different considering they are dedicated libraries that cost more than an entire Ark on their own - and unlike Ark - it's designed to be versitile.
If Ark 1 was supposed to be the cheap entry level bundle with poor QA, it wasn't communicated well to me. There's aggressive, and then there's "I can't make a fast repetition line on this note without manually re-aligning one of the note-ons so that it doesn't sound like a random break was thrown in". They know there are errors like this, because another user from here reported this to them. They said they'd fix it in a future update, which hasn't come yet. And I doubt they're doing a proper QA pass looking through all the samples of the shorts this time either.
And I would argue that the stuff that bothers me in terms of other inconsistences sounds straight up bad at times, but I concede that there's some level of subjectivity involved. If you never wanted to disable a RR from it, you might be layering many things on top of each other, whereas I usually use it more exposed because I don't have that huge library collection and I bought it as an allround orchestral library for loud stuff.

The more practical thing if a particular sample bothers you - is to just disable it whenever it comes up in a phrase, render in place, then re-enable it.
Rendering to wav would mean I can't make changes to the microphone settings without manually re-doing all those individual tweaks, that's not an option for me.

It's probably possible to open up the instrument, delete the mapping group on those 2 semitones and extend the above and below ranges a half step a piece.
You're assuming that both neighboring notes don't contain RRs that bother me and that the sound of them being pitch shifted 2 semitones wouldn't bother me, and I'm not so sure about both. But thanks for the recommendations, I do appreciate them!


I think I might try the following, since most of the RRs that bother me are in the string spiccatos: I'll keep using my "articulation by midi channel" setup for my main work and throw in an RR reset trigger at the start of every phrase, and when somewhere a RR sample is hit in a spiccato part that I really can't stand, I'll move that part over to a midi track that has just high and low spiccatos and all RR layers activated on channel 1 and individual RR layers on channels 2 and upwards. Then I can maybe leave most of the part of the phrase on channel 1 and only "evade" individual notes that would trigger bad RRs.


P.s.: At some point in the future I'll probably buy the Cinematic Studio Strings/Brass/Woods. From what I've read that seems to be the best fit for me so far.
 
if you for some reason dislike an RR you can disable it.

first chairs are literally first chairs, and recorded in a hall, so not sure what you mean there

brass layers are fine, most people complain that the top dynamic on sustains isn't fff. IIRC naom tweaked his cc1 curves for them to be more homogeneous on their sustains - but the effect is pretty minor, and if you're playing the parts in manually instead of programming then it's completely redundant.

hope that helps
On brass, I've heard the complaints about the lack of a FFF, and don't think that would bother me. What would, is if the mod wheel for two instruments in the same section is set to the same value, but one instrument is playing a MF, while the other is playing a P. To give an example.

By "hall noises", I meant noises, things like scratches of chairs on the floor. Sorry if that wasn't clear, I couldn't think of a better way to word it. :P

Anyway, this review mentions the issues in the FC:


Do any of these issues persist?

I have Berlin Brass, Cinebrass and Cinematic Studio Brass. If you're looking for a consistent library go for CSS. The sound and concept of BB is great but the inconsistency in dynamics and heavy cpu load is unbearable, especially for that price. And no, updates didn't fix this.
Hm. That seems to confirm the example I've mentioned, above. And indeed, such issues in combination with the price tag is the real kicker. When paying a premium price, I don't think it's unreasonable to expect premium QA.
 
"I can't make a fast repetition line on this note without manually re-aligning one of the note-ons so that it doesn't sound like a random break was thrown in".
I had this problem with MA1 recently and had to pull the spiccatos from the song and go to a different library. There are things I absolutely love about MA1 and MA2, like the sound and the less-common articulations they offer. But sometimes there are programming hiccups that make it unusable in certain situations; hiccups which Orchestral Tools could conceivably fix in an update. :)

I would love if Orchestral Tools would do a better job with their programming and quality control. When their stuff is working properly, it can do wonders.

So, my question to those who own these libraries; are these issues still a thing, or have they since been fixed? And also, are there any other issues that are still around?
I don't own Berlin Brass, but here is a post that goes into detail about its dynamic inconsistencies as well as how you can fix them. Orchestral Tools' player, Capsule, does offer a deep set of tools for customizing the samples and sometimes I've been able to use it to fix library issues.

If you're looking for a consistent library go for CSS.
This has been my experience as well. Cinematic Studio Series is 100% reliable.
 
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