A plea to Spitfire... (POLL added)

Would it be of value to you if Spitfire made MIDI files for their demos available, where possible?

  • Yes

  • No


Results are only viewable after voting.

Lee Blaske

Senior Member
Ok guys - I can't resist it.... so here you go......... WE TOLD YA!!!! :elephant:

Just over 12 months later... but here it is. Christian came good on his promise and delivered. This was a thread in which I politely asked Christian if he would be open to releasing Midi and/or Logic files for his company demos. He agreed, but what followed was what is unfortunately not an isolated occurrence, where musicians look down on those looking to learn. The thread was dripping with elitism and patronizing dismissal. Re-reading, I've still no idea what elicited this vitriol (cough, elitism, cough), but I satisfy myself with today's outcome. TODAY - Christian officially confirmed that he will be releasing the Logic files for the demo track he wrote for BBCSO! A great outcome, that he generously agreed to, in response to a polite request, but in delivering the BBCSO on their new platform, facilitated so much more.

So, yes a great outcome. But, oh, it gives me great pleasure to re-read these comments now, in light of Spitfire's announcement. They haven't aged well:
  • JohnG:
    • It's nonsense. It's not practical for all the reasons people have described and it's downright obnoxious to the creator, in my opinion."
    • "downright childish to dismiss the technical impediments to sharing midi files. They are innumerable..."
    • "a reflection of inexperience and naivety to think that unscrupulous actors would not take advantage of such midi files"
    • "Some posts here are skating rather close to entitlement. They’re sound libraries, not GarageBand."
    • Garry keeps brushing off not only the technical difficulties (which others have enumerated) but, even worse, the outright rudeness of requiring employees to hand over their midi files."
  • Lee Blakse:
    • "I think it would be very difficult, if not impossible, to release MIDI session files that would accurately reproduce the sound of various demos."
    • "If these sessions get released, it's a safe bet that Spitfire tech support will be tied up with questions coming in about why the session won't work or load. It'll be an additional drain on their resources."
  • Quantum7:
    • "Why should composers who have practiced day and night for many years give away there acquired knowledge "trade secrets" to a newbie who hasn't even hardly any understanding of what he or she is even doing with the sample library anyway?"
  • ABalvin:
    • "In my opinion you are paying the developers for their libraries. You are not paying them to TEACH YOU how to use them"
  • Playz123:
    • "A demo file of 'something' useful...no problem. A demo of one written exclusively for the developer as a published "demo"...no."
  • Zolhof:
    • "I know it can be a bit overwhelming to actually put an effort in your work"
  • Wolfie2112:
    • "why is it up to the developer to hold your hand through the orchestration process?"
And johnbusbymusic... yes, I enjoyed this thread too... I just had a year to wait! :2thumbs:

Thanks guys - those named above can now safely return to my ignore list :)

But most of all, thanks Christian!

Sorry, I don't have any problems with my earlier statements that you quoted. Not that it matters, but you have not been vindicated. Spitfire is not releasing all the files of all the artists that contributed to the demos.

Instead, Spitfire's new product is EXPRESSLY designed for sharing, built and INTENDED to be a common platform for exchange (if you own that library, you have all the elements to recreate that demo). It's something that everyone can use for the purposes of exchanging ideas. This is a totally new and different ballgame. But I still expect individual artists (employed or not employed by Spitfire) will decide to, or not to release their demo files (and their desire for ownership will be a factor). As you recall, you were rudely demanding all of Spitfire's artists to post their files.

So, Garry, your attempt to return and rub salt in the wound has failed. You've also completely mischaracterized my position.

Is there some reason you choose to be completely insufferable?
 
OP
Garry

Garry

Senior Member
Sorry, I don't have any problems with my earlier statements that you quoted. Not that it matters, but you have not been vindicated. Spitfire is not releasing all the files of all the artists that contributed to the demos.

Instead, Spitfire's new product is EXPRESSLY designed for sharing, built and INTENDED to be a common platform for exchange (if you own that library, you have all the elements to recreate that demo). It's something that everyone can use for the purposes of exchanging ideas. This is a totally new and different ballgame. But I still expect individual artists (employed or not employed by Spitfire) will decide to, or not to release their demo files (and their desire for ownership will be a factor). As you recall, you were rudely demanding all of Spitfire's artists to post their files.

So, Garry, your attempt to return and rub salt in the wound has failed. You've also completely mischaracterized my position.

Is there some reason you choose to be completely insufferable?
I remember now why I turn on my ignore list, but ok, if you insist, I'll reply:

"Spitfire is not releasing all the files of all the artists that contributed to the demos." - nope, and neither did I claim they would. Please quote me if you think I did. Christian alone agreed, and it is Christian alone (currently, who knows later), who has released his own demo file. What in that is not vindication?

"This is a totally new and different ballgame" - yup, and I never once suggested that they had to do it in a particular way. They're a creative company, and they came up with a creative solution, that many on here (which I DO quote) say it wasn't technically possible - indeed I was childishly naive to think so!! 🤣

"As you recall, you were rudely demanding all of Spitfire's artists to post their files" - nope, I wasn't, and it's you who fails to recall. Again, quote me, or just decide to be wrong.

"Is there some reason you choose to be completely insufferable?" - I can see why you would find this insufferable. Being wrong can be hard to swallow. Swallow hard! :)
 

Lee Blaske

Senior Member
Sadly, this type of behavior is what really pulls this forum down, and especially makes it a very inhospitable place for developers to participate. It should not be a place where people come to do battle and enumerate old grudges.
 

Lee Blaske

Senior Member
I remember now why I turn on my ignore list, but ok, if you insist, I'll reply:

"Spitfire is not releasing all the files of all the artists that contributed to the demos." - nope, and neither did I claim they would. Please quote me if you think I did. Christian alone agreed, and it is Christian alone (currently, who knows later), who has released his own demo file. What in that is not vindication?

"This is a totally new and different ballgame" - yup, and I never once suggested that they had to do it in a particular way. They're a creative company, and they came up with a creative solution, that many on here (which I DO quote) say it wasn't technically possible - indeed I was childishly naive to think so!! 🤣

"As you recall, you were rudely demanding all of Spitfire's artists to post their files" - nope, I wasn't, and it's you who fails to recall. Again, quote me, or just decide to be wrong.
You should consider getting counseling.
 
OP
Garry

Garry

Senior Member
Sadly, this type of behavior is what really pulls this forum down, and especially makes it a very inhospitable place for developers to participate. It should not be a place where people come to do battle and enumerate old grudges.
Let me get that right: I make a polite request, 200 people agree with me, the person I made the request of agrees with me, he delivers on it 12 months later as promised, and those who were dismissive and scornful of the idea can't deal with that being pointed out, but wait, I'm the one bring the forum down, right?!!

OK, time to turn the ignore list back on - enjoy shouting into the void! I'm off to hit pre-order, so I can learn from my demo files!!! :rofl:
 

miket

Senior Member
Some people did respond to the idea kind of strangely, but I don't think it's something to gloat over....
 
OP
Garry

Garry

Senior Member
Some people did respond to the idea kind of strangely, but I don't think it's something to gloat over....
why? If you read just the comments I quoted, it's clear they were offensive. Why not be happy that they were not only rude, but wrong?
 
OP
Garry

Garry

Senior Member
Nope, not an achievement, just data. Facts, don't you just hate it when they get in the way?
 

Wolfie2112

Senior Member
Ok guys - I can't resist it.... so here you go......... WE TOLD YA!!!! :elephant:

Just over 12 months later... but here it is. Christian came good on his promise and delivered. This was a thread in which I politely asked Christian if he would be open to releasing Midi and/or Logic files for his company demos. He agreed, but what followed was what is unfortunately not an isolated occurrence, where musicians look down on those looking to learn. The thread was dripping with elitism and patronizing dismissal. Re-reading, I've still no idea what elicited this vitriol (cough, elitism, cough), but I satisfy myself with today's outcome. TODAY - Christian officially confirmed that he will be releasing the Logic files for the demo track he wrote for BBCSO! A great outcome, that he generously agreed to, in response to a polite request, but in delivering the BBCSO on their new platform, facilitated so much more.

So, yes a great outcome. But, oh, it gives me great pleasure to re-read these comments now, in light of Spitfire's announcement. They haven't aged well:
  • JohnG:
    • It's nonsense. It's not practical for all the reasons people have described and it's downright obnoxious to the creator, in my opinion."
    • "downright childish to dismiss the technical impediments to sharing midi files. They are innumerable..."
    • "a reflection of inexperience and naivety to think that unscrupulous actors would not take advantage of such midi files"
    • "Some posts here are skating rather close to entitlement. They’re sound libraries, not GarageBand."
    • Garry keeps brushing off not only the technical difficulties (which others have enumerated) but, even worse, the outright rudeness of requiring employees to hand over their midi files."
  • Lee Blakse:
    • "I think it would be very difficult, if not impossible, to release MIDI session files that would accurately reproduce the sound of various demos."
    • "If these sessions get released, it's a safe bet that Spitfire tech support will be tied up with questions coming in about why the session won't work or load. It'll be an additional drain on their resources."
  • Quantum7:
    • "Why should composers who have practiced day and night for many years give away there acquired knowledge "trade secrets" to a newbie who hasn't even hardly any understanding of what he or she is even doing with the sample library anyway?"
  • ABalvin:
    • "In my opinion you are paying the developers for their libraries. You are not paying them to TEACH YOU how to use them"
  • Playz123:
    • "A demo file of 'something' useful...no problem. A demo of one written exclusively for the developer as a published "demo"...no."
  • Zolhof:
    • "I know it can be a bit overwhelming to actually put an effort in your work"
  • Wolfie2112:
    • "why is it up to the developer to hold your hand through the orchestration process?"
And johnbusbymusic... yes, I enjoyed this thread too... I just had a year to wait! :2thumbs:

Thanks guys - those named above can now safely return to my ignore list :)

But most of all, thanks Christian! For everything, but particularly for 11:52 in this video:

Jeez, I had high regard for you until this post. I stand by my comment you quoted, always will. I am grateful for Spitfire for releasing this BBC project file, but it was purely their decision and it makes sense based on the philosophy behind the product. If you can't handle opinions you don't agree with, or love tooting your own horn, I suggest sticking to Facebook.
 
OP
Garry

Garry

Senior Member
Jeez, I had high regard for you until this post. I stand by my comment you quoted, always will. I am grateful for Spitfire for releasing this BBC project file, but it was purely their decision and it makes sense based on the philosophy behind the product. If you can't handle opinions you don't agree with, or love tooting your own horn, I suggest sticking to Facebook.
Yes, of course it was their decision - that's why I specifically asked them for it in the first place. Nothing I've said changes that.

I don't know why you would think it's opinions I don't agree with that I can't handle - I started a poll to request them! It's purely the condescending tone, and ad hominem attacks that I object to, and now take some satisfaction in them having been proved wrong.

If unfortunately your high regard is lost for this, ok.
 
OP
Garry

Garry

Senior Member
Look, it's you who came here to express an opinion on a thread you think should be deleted. If you don't want to read or comment, feel free. If you're going to make comments against it though, don't be surprised to receive a response.