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A New Chapter from Spitfire Audio...

I think we should refrain from accusing developers of reusing samples unless you have two specific samples you want to share with the forum that you think are reused. In which case go for it. The only time I'm aware a developer has done something like this is the EW Ghostwriter situation and they pretty much never lived it down.

Reminds me of when someone asked if HZS was just Mural samples restacked. Oh yes? And how did they get the cellos all the way on the other side of the room? :rofl:
 
Vik said:
Recording multiple string ensembles using the same mic setup/room etc isn't necessarily a bad idea (different players, different concept, different section sizes, different signal chain etc). But if that's what they have done, and I was a Bernard Herrmann Toolkit owner planning to buy SStS, I'd like to know that I'm actually about to buy the same recordings again.

I don't think SF are reselling the BH strings with SStS. But if you are concerned, why not ask them?
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I would not be bothered either way as the choice of articulations is different and the BHT is more like an Albion in its section formats.

I simply think it would make no financial sense to do virtually the same studio setup/mic choices/producer twice.

Now I am not saying they are the exact same samples. Firstly they are mixed differently one is sectional the other instrument based. But its perfectly reasonable to assume they were part of the same session.
 
And even if they had it would not stop me buying as BHT does not have separate Violin, Viola, Cello, Bass.

My decision is more about what does this add to what I have, is it a fresh take, is the Legato good etc. Now if Spitfire had released this 3-4 years ago, I would have thought maybe, but any flaws will be ironed out in fixes.

Now with their hectic release schedule, I am not so sure. So I have to judge it on its first release state.

And if I did not have BHT I would be interested, but having re-evaluated the strings in there I am not so sure even at the very good price on intro its worth the extra control as BHT has some good stuff that crosses over with this.

And thats my real point.
 
NoamL said:
I think we should refrain from accusing developers of reusing samples unless you have two specific samples you want to share with the forum that you think are reused. In which case go for it. The only time I'm aware a developer has done something like this is the EW Ghostwriter situation and they pretty much never lived it down.

Reminds me of when someone asked if HZS was just Mural samples restacked. Oh yes? And how did they get the cellos all the way on the other side of the room? :rofl:
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moving your speakers from left to right !!!

:shocked::rofl:
 
I think "mentally lazy" is, at this point, a fair assessment.

Nobody is putting words in SF's mouth. The announcement was that this would be their most versatile and flexible string library yet. I guess if a person gauges flexibility entirely on whether or not the samples were taken in Lyndhurst, then yes they're more flexible.

But it seems that the phrasing capabilities, agility of, and general sound quality of this library is lesser than its predecessors. So then the argument is made that they meant flexible within the context of modern tv/film scoring.

And yet, the library seems to have considerable problems with tuning, legato transitions, telltale noises with low round robin count, etc. It becomes pretty clear that the reason they are using big fat cello chords, for example, in their demos is to hide the fact that there are obvious inconsistencies within the library.

Perhaps these issues will be corrected and Spitfire will do an update on the library. But then we're still looking at a release that clearly wasn't ready for professional use, based solely off the number of issues within the sample content itself

I can't think of a better description than mentally lazy. Would you prefer I say "dishonest"? They aren't giving these samples away. It's a paid product that can neither be returned or resold. And to me they have been sloppy enough that it is hard to take them seriously.
 
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On my side, I liked the walkthrough and I bought the library. I didn't have time to play much with it, but yesterday I used the 2 celli spiccato divisi with the solo strings one + some rev bus, and I really enjoyed the sonic result.

I'm a bit surprised by all the continuous negativity about the product and the company.

Imho, I don't think it brings any value to the discussion when I read some assumptions about the recording, or some comments about how Spitifre should drive its own business, or even worst some repetitive bashing because its not what people expect for their personal needs, or compared to what they already got.

Hey, relax :emoji_tulip:, maybe this library was not designed for you. And if that would be the case, why would you suffer from any kind of indignity? As lot of people didn't forget to mention, there are lot of other opportunities in the sampling library world now. And I'm wondering why is it so important for some people to repetitively convince the others this is not THE real thing, and they should do like them, not buy it?

Just wanted to post these few words because you cannot even imagine how I just feel strange and alone to write I liked this project (Am I normal?, Do I got ears?, Shouldn't I be ashamed?... ) after all the poisonous brainwashing posted in few different threads. I'm sure the negativity is not intended, but is more a result of emotional biased feedback with the brand anchored to memories and ideals. But whatever...

I hope to see more people coming with positive feedback, and my comment there is just there to try to break this dark loop. :emoji_sunny:
 
Francis Bourre said:
On my side, I liked the walkthrough and I bought the library. I didn't have time to play much with it, but yesterday I used the 2 celli spiccato divisi with the solo strings one + some rev bus, and I really enjoyed the sonic result.

I'm a bit surprised by all the continuous negativity about the product and the company.

Imho, I don't think it brings any value to the discussion when I read some assumptions about the recording, or some comments about how Spitifre should drive its own business, or even worst some repetitive bashing because its not what people expect for their personal needs, or compared to what they already got.

Hey, relax :emoji_tulip:, maybe this library was not designed for you. And if that would be the case, why would you suffer from any kind of indignity? As lot of people didn't forget to mention, there are lot of other opportunities in the sampling library world now. And I'm wondering why is it so important for some people to repetitively convince the others this is not THE real thing, and they should do like them, not buy it?

Just wanted to post these few words because you cannot even imagine how I just feel strange and alone to write I liked this project (Am I normal?, Do I got ears?, Shouldn't I be ashamed?... ) after all the poisonous brainwashing posted in few different threads. I'm sure the negativity is not intended, but is more a result of emotional biased feedback with the brand anchored to memories and ideals. But whatever...

I hope to see more people coming with positive feedback, and my comment there is just there to try to break this dark loop. :emoji_sunny:
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"poisonous brainwashing"

Woah there. I think you are reading far more into all this than is actually there.

Personally, i know i dont even have to buy it to know if i will like it or not, because almost all the demos sound horrible (in my opinion and to my ears).

I have nothing against Spitfire. I think some of their libraries sound fantastic. I just think it is very telling that they can't even make a fantastic sounding demo with it. Normally i expect demos to sound good and set my expectations slightly lower in terms of what i could get out of it. If the demos dont even sound passable though...well.

If you have bought it and like it then that is all that matters. There is no "brainwashing" going on though, just people stating their opinions.
 
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Francis Bourre said:
On my side, I liked the walkthrough and I bought the library. I didn't have time to play much with it, but yesterday I used the 2 celli spiccato divisi with the solo strings one + some rev bus, and I really enjoyed the sonic result.

I'm a bit surprised by all the continuous negativity about the product and the company.

Imho, I don't think it brings any value to the discussion when I read some assumptions about the recording, or some comments about how Spitifre should drive its own business, or even worst some repetitive bashing because its not what people expect for their personal needs, or compared to what they already got.

Hey, relax :emoji_tulip:, maybe this library was not designed for you. And if that would be the case, why would you suffer from any kind of indignity? As lot of people didn't forget to mention, there are lot of other opportunities in the sampling library world now. And I'm wondering why is it so important for some people to repetitively convince the others this is not THE real thing, and they should do like them, not buy it?

Just wanted to post these few words because you cannot even imagine how I just feel strange and alone to write I liked this project (Am I normal?, Do I got ears?, Shouldn't I be ashamed?... ) after all the poisonous brainwashing posted in few different threads. I'm sure the negativity is not intended, but is more a result of emotional biased feedback with the brand anchored to memories and ideals. But whatever...

I hope to see more people coming with positive feedback, and my comment there is just there to try to break this dark loop. :emoji_sunny:
Click to expand...

It’s been my assumption is that those who are enjoying this library do not feel comfortable posting here about it. Or possibly, they’re too busy making music with it ;)

Also, it seems that a lot of the critical posts are from people who have not used the library and are basing their opinions off of the demos (could be wrong).

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. I just appreciate fist hand experiences.

If you do own it and are disappointed, a demo of your own would be helpful in pointing out what you are disappointed in.

I myself am excited about this library and can’t wait till I can afford to purchase it.
 
dogdad said:
It’s been my assumption is that those who are enjoying this library do not feel comfortable posting here about it.
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As someone who really likes this library, and has posted a demo, I think that's a real thing. And a manifestation of a very well established effect, that I've seen it in many, many contexts.

But this is just to say the on the internet ... there are group dynamics at play (shocking, I know).
 
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Francis Bourre said:
On my side, I liked the walkthrough and I bought the library. I didn't have time to play much with it, but yesterday I used the 2 celli spiccato divisi with the solo strings one + some rev bus, and I really enjoyed the sonic result.

I'm a bit surprised by all the continuous negativity about the product and the company.

Imho, I don't think it brings any value to the discussion when I read some assumptions about the recording, or some comments about how Spitifre should drive its own business, or even worst some repetitive bashing because its not what people expect for their personal needs, or compared to what they already got.

Hey, relax :emoji_tulip:, maybe this library was not designed for you. And if that would be the case, why would you suffer from any kind of indignity? As lot of people didn't forget to mention, there are lot of other opportunities in the sampling library world now. And I'm wondering why is it so important for some people to repetitively convince the others this is not THE real thing, and they should do like them, not buy it?

Just wanted to post these few words because you cannot even imagine how I just feel strange and alone to write I liked this project (Am I normal?, Do I got ears?, Shouldn't I be ashamed?... ) after all the poisonous brainwashing posted in few different threads. I'm sure the negativity is not intended, but is more a result of emotional biased feedback with the brand anchored to memories and ideals. But whatever...

I hope to see more people coming with positive feedback, and my comment there is just there to try to break this dark loop. :emoji_sunny:
Click to expand...

It is good that you enjoy the new library, and I guess nobody here wants to speak bad about that library. I think the library does a great job for that emotional Film / TV Underscoring enviroment. So imo SFA aimed not to release a product to extremes here in terms of replicating Williams string stuff or some classical mockups. And it is not needed because the target audience are not a few people like me or Noam or Mike V. who dont´want to write to the strengths of a library but to their own needs but the mass market. SFA thinks also a lot about their target audience and they are definitely not the people who like to score oldschool shit.
 
AlexanderSchiborr said:
It is good that you enjoy the new library, and I guess nobody here wants to speak bad about that library. I think the library does a great job for that emotional Film / TV Underscoring enviroment. So imo SFA aimed not to release a product to extremes here in terms of replicating Williams string stuff or some classical mockups. And it is not needed because the target audience are not a few people like me or Noam or Mike V. who dont´want to write to the strengths of a library but to their own needs but the mass market. SFA thinks also a lot about their target audience and they are definitely not the people who like to score oldschool shit.
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I feel like some people are giving SF a little too much credit. There's no reason we can't push them to make content that works for more than underscoring. Sacconi's legatos are not fantastic and that was 100% marketed, conceived, and designed for string quartet music which is about as classic, nuanced, and high art as you can get. I LOVE Sacconi for non lead writing though. I also don't think Embertone's Joshua Bell violin is perfect either but definitely a huge step up. One of the main problems with any library for lead lines is the attacks just start to sound way too similar.

I love Spitfire's products and realize there are always limitations to sample libraries. I just think for the quality they are aiming for, the money they are making, and the amount of people they have hired to work for them there's no reason to hold back realistic critique. The goal is clear - they want to be as good as they possibly can be. Don't let marketing get in the way of knowing that there is always room for improvement.

It must be hard to be one of the leading sample developers!
 
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Let me clear this up because it's ridiculous that someone has made the claim in the first place. I can definitively tell you that these samples are not from, nor used in, the Bernard Herrmann library. How do I know? I have both and I've compared. I didn't compare because I felt the need to rebuke those conspiracies in this thread. I compared because they were recorded in the same room, same mics, and same engineer yet sound completely different to me. BHT is a great library for what it is. It's a very useful library. Those ensemble patches of mixed instruments aren't baked samples. They are the real deal. SStS is far from that. The sound and characteristic of the library is very different. I compared the two because one of them, SStS, is highly inferior to the other when you compare strings. Sure, SStS has more articulations and is regarded to be more versatile. I can personally get more music in different styles written with BHT's strings than I can with the current state of SStS.

-C
 
anderslink said:
I feel like some people are giving SF a little too much credit. There's no reason we can't push them to make content that works for more than underscoring. Sacconi's legatos are not fantastic and that was 100% marketed, conceived, and designed for string quartet music which is about as classic, nuanced, and high art as you can get. I LOVE Sacconi for non lead writing though. I also don't think Embertone's Joshua Bell violin is perfect either but definitely a huge step up. One of the main problems with any library for lead lines is the attacks just start to sound way too similar.

I love Spitfire's products and realize there are always limitations to sample libraries. I just think for the quality they are aiming for, the money they are making, and the amount of people they have hired to work for them there's no reason to hold back realistic critique. The goal is clear - they want to be as good as they possibly can be. Don't let marketing get in the way of knowing that there is always room for improvement.

It must be hard to be one of the leading sample developers!
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Just to give you an answer to your last line: Yes, where the bigger money comes and company grows, there comes the question: Do you want to produce libraries as good as possible or do you want to sell the things to the mass market? At least for me they evolved in a direction that I find unattractive to support anymore. And not because I have a grudge with them or anybody of course not but just simply because many of the releases seem to me a bit redundant. I hope that I can say that without getting stoned. I don´t want to be VIC persona non grata, but for me that is very obvious.
 
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ism said:
As someone who really likes this library, and has posted a demo, I think that's a real think. And a manifestation of a very well established effect, that I've seen it in many, many contexts.

But this is just to say the on the internet ... there are group dynamics at play (shocking, I know).
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I’m still on the fence on this library given all the faults demonstrated by Piet and others. Those examples really are disappointing. But your demo and in particular the legatos in it sound wonderful and are pushing me over to the buy side of the fence. Thanks for posting that.
 
AlexanderSchiborr said:
***********
........simply because many of the releases seem to me a bit redundant.
I hope that I can say that without getting stoned.
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:thumbsup:

You clearly have key perspectives beyond the pure 'music-related' aspects of this topic. Some things are universal and continue to play critical roles in company decisions.


I spent a long career with a top electronic firm growing out of the space-age period. It hit a major turning point when GROWTH became the driving force. Competitors were growing rapidly, and a large. divisive, internal split changed the company dramatically. Large segments which built profit and reputation were not seen as 'growing' fast enough and were turned into 'cash cows' until they failed and were discarded.

SFA is in a vastly different marketplace, but I see these forces as being very similar. How the issues get sorted will be instructional to follow.
 
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