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A New Chapter from Spitfire Audio...

erica-grace

Senior Member
Obviously I am guessing, but I reckon these might be the same samples used in Herrmann, find it hard to believe they re-recorded the Strings using the same Room, Producer, Mic Setup etc. The setup in BHT is the same as this ie C1 C2 T1 T2 O.

Nothing necessarily wrong with that.
Actually, there is something wrong with that.

Releasing a new product based, to a large degree, on samples from an old product, without telling your customers? There is something very wrong with that, IMO
 

givemenoughrope

Senior Member
I’m not sure I ever thought about a drier, studio version of Sable/SCS but I guess that makes sense. SCS sounds great but to me it’s the room (Air) that makes it. Tbh, I’m really all about more evo’s but was also kind of hoping they would tackle a project of connected notes (loures, spiccatos) using something like REX files and/or time machine.
 

procreative

Senior Member
Actually, there is something wrong with that.

Releasing a new product based, to a large degree, on samples from an old product, without telling your customers? There is something very wrong with that, IMO
Well firstly I cannot say 100% they did this and it would be wrong to accuse them of that. But logic would tell me it would be stupid to not re-purpose recordings and I doubt its the only time a developer has done this.

I don't see a problem with it because the BHT strings are premixed into ensembles so I think it is perfectly reasonable (if they have done this) to sell the same recordings in different products as they have been mixed differently.

I think Spitfire and any other developer that reacts badly to negative reviews should take a step back, take a breath then realise its a unique opportunity to gain customer insight.

If they truly passionately care about the quality of their libraries, they should be able to (once the emotions have calmed) take a step back and see that many of the criticisms come from loyal customers (in some instances) who rate previous work highly.

The vast increase in releases has definitely impacted on perceived quality for two reasons.

1. Firstly endless revamps of basically the same concepts eg Alternative Solo Strings/LCO begin to create an expectation the new title offers something better and more innovative than the last.

2. Secondly the mad schedule undoubtedly has an impact on quality control and design choices.

The sample library industry has devloped so far in a few years, but our expectations have grown as the choices are now so vast, but yet in many instances new libraries only offer minor advances (if any) and it often feels like commerce over art.

But if you have over 30 staff, you need to pay their wages, the rent, the investors. Thats the curse of growing a business based on artistic endeavour. I have seen it happen time and again my industry (graphic design).

You start off with a core of creative people, then as it grows you add account managers, sales teams, financial officers etc and it becomes a beast that has to generate income just to exist and starts to lose the essence of what made it great.
 

Vik

Scandi Member
Obviously I am guessing, but I reckon these might be the same samples used in Herrmann, find it hard to believe they re-recorded the Strings using the same Room, Producer, Mic Setup etc. The setup in BHT is the same as this ie C1 C2 T1 T2 O.
Recording multiple string ensembles using the same mic setup/room etc isn't necessarily a bad idea (different players, different concept, different section sizes, different signal chain etc). But if that's what they have done, and I was a Bernard Herrmann Toolkit owner planning to buy SStS, I'd like to know that I'm actually about to buy the same recordings again.

I don't think SF are reselling the BH strings with SStS. But if you are concerned, why not ask them?
 

NoamL

Winter <3
I think we should refrain from accusing developers of reusing samples unless you have two specific samples you want to share with the forum that you think are reused. In which case go for it. The only time I'm aware a developer has done something like this is the EW Ghostwriter situation and they pretty much never lived it down.

Reminds me of when someone asked if HZS was just Mural samples restacked. Oh yes? And how did they get the cellos all the way on the other side of the room? :rofl:
 

procreative

Senior Member
Recording multiple string ensembles using the same mic setup/room etc isn't necessarily a bad idea (different players, different concept, different section sizes, different signal chain etc). But if that's what they have done, and I was a Bernard Herrmann Toolkit owner planning to buy SStS, I'd like to know that I'm actually about to buy the same recordings again.

I don't think SF are reselling the BH strings with SStS. But if you are concerned, why not ask them?
I would not be bothered either way as the choice of articulations is different and the BHT is more like an Albion in its section formats.

I simply think it would make no financial sense to do virtually the same studio setup/mic choices/producer twice.

Now I am not saying they are the exact same samples. Firstly they are mixed differently one is sectional the other instrument based. But its perfectly reasonable to assume they were part of the same session.
 

procreative

Senior Member
And even if they had it would not stop me buying as BHT does not have separate Violin, Viola, Cello, Bass.

My decision is more about what does this add to what I have, is it a fresh take, is the Legato good etc. Now if Spitfire had released this 3-4 years ago, I would have thought maybe, but any flaws will be ironed out in fixes.

Now with their hectic release schedule, I am not so sure. So I have to judge it on its first release state.

And if I did not have BHT I would be interested, but having re-evaluated the strings in there I am not so sure even at the very good price on intro its worth the extra control as BHT has some good stuff that crosses over with this.

And thats my real point.
 

AlexanderSchiborr

Senior Member
I think we should refrain from accusing developers of reusing samples unless you have two specific samples you want to share with the forum that you think are reused. In which case go for it. The only time I'm aware a developer has done something like this is the EW Ghostwriter situation and they pretty much never lived it down.

Reminds me of when someone asked if HZS was just Mural samples restacked. Oh yes? And how did they get the cellos all the way on the other side of the room? :rofl:
moving your speakers from left to right !!!

:shocked::rofl:
 

Brian Nowak

Active Member
I think "mentally lazy" is, at this point, a fair assessment.

Nobody is putting words in SF's mouth. The announcement was that this would be their most versatile and flexible string library yet. I guess if a person gauges flexibility entirely on whether or not the samples were taken in Lyndhurst, then yes they're more flexible.

But it seems that the phrasing capabilities, agility of, and general sound quality of this library is lesser than its predecessors. So then the argument is made that they meant flexible within the context of modern tv/film scoring.

And yet, the library seems to have considerable problems with tuning, legato transitions, telltale noises with low round robin count, etc. It becomes pretty clear that the reason they are using big fat cello chords, for example, in their demos is to hide the fact that there are obvious inconsistencies within the library.

Perhaps these issues will be corrected and Spitfire will do an update on the library. But then we're still looking at a release that clearly wasn't ready for professional use, based solely off the number of issues within the sample content itself

I can't think of a better description than mentally lazy. Would you prefer I say "dishonest"? They aren't giving these samples away. It's a paid product that can neither be returned or resold. And to me they have been sloppy enough that it is hard to take them seriously.
 
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On my side, I liked the walkthrough and I bought the library. I didn't have time to play much with it, but yesterday I used the 2 celli spiccato divisi with the solo strings one + some rev bus, and I really enjoyed the sonic result.

I'm a bit surprised by all the continuous negativity about the product and the company.

Imho, I don't think it brings any value to the discussion when I read some assumptions about the recording, or some comments about how Spitifre should drive its own business, or even worst some repetitive bashing because its not what people expect for their personal needs, or compared to what they already got.

Hey, relax :emoji_tulip:, maybe this library was not designed for you. And if that would be the case, why would you suffer from any kind of indignity? As lot of people didn't forget to mention, there are lot of other opportunities in the sampling library world now. And I'm wondering why is it so important for some people to repetitively convince the others this is not THE real thing, and they should do like them, not buy it?

Just wanted to post these few words because you cannot even imagine how I just feel strange and alone to write I liked this project (Am I normal?, Do I got ears?, Shouldn't I be ashamed?... ) after all the poisonous brainwashing posted in few different threads. I'm sure the negativity is not intended, but is more a result of emotional biased feedback with the brand anchored to memories and ideals. But whatever...

I hope to see more people coming with positive feedback, and my comment there is just there to try to break this dark loop. :emoji_sunny:
 

Eptesicus

Senior Member
On my side, I liked the walkthrough and I bought the library. I didn't have time to play much with it, but yesterday I used the 2 celli spiccato divisi with the solo strings one + some rev bus, and I really enjoyed the sonic result.

I'm a bit surprised by all the continuous negativity about the product and the company.

Imho, I don't think it brings any value to the discussion when I read some assumptions about the recording, or some comments about how Spitifre should drive its own business, or even worst some repetitive bashing because its not what people expect for their personal needs, or compared to what they already got.

Hey, relax :emoji_tulip:, maybe this library was not designed for you. And if that would be the case, why would you suffer from any kind of indignity? As lot of people didn't forget to mention, there are lot of other opportunities in the sampling library world now. And I'm wondering why is it so important for some people to repetitively convince the others this is not THE real thing, and they should do like them, not buy it?

Just wanted to post these few words because you cannot even imagine how I just feel strange and alone to write I liked this project (Am I normal?, Do I got ears?, Shouldn't I be ashamed?... ) after all the poisonous brainwashing posted in few different threads. I'm sure the negativity is not intended, but is more a result of emotional biased feedback with the brand anchored to memories and ideals. But whatever...

I hope to see more people coming with positive feedback, and my comment there is just there to try to break this dark loop. :emoji_sunny:
"poisonous brainwashing"

Woah there. I think you are reading far more into all this than is actually there.

Personally, i know i dont even have to buy it to know if i will like it or not, because almost all the demos sound horrible (in my opinion and to my ears).

I have nothing against Spitfire. I think some of their libraries sound fantastic. I just think it is very telling that they can't even make a fantastic sounding demo with it. Normally i expect demos to sound good and set my expectations slightly lower in terms of what i could get out of it. If the demos dont even sound passable though...well.

If you have bought it and like it then that is all that matters. There is no "brainwashing" going on though, just people stating their opinions.
 
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dogdad

Member
On my side, I liked the walkthrough and I bought the library. I didn't have time to play much with it, but yesterday I used the 2 celli spiccato divisi with the solo strings one + some rev bus, and I really enjoyed the sonic result.

I'm a bit surprised by all the continuous negativity about the product and the company.

Imho, I don't think it brings any value to the discussion when I read some assumptions about the recording, or some comments about how Spitifre should drive its own business, or even worst some repetitive bashing because its not what people expect for their personal needs, or compared to what they already got.

Hey, relax :emoji_tulip:, maybe this library was not designed for you. And if that would be the case, why would you suffer from any kind of indignity? As lot of people didn't forget to mention, there are lot of other opportunities in the sampling library world now. And I'm wondering why is it so important for some people to repetitively convince the others this is not THE real thing, and they should do like them, not buy it?

Just wanted to post these few words because you cannot even imagine how I just feel strange and alone to write I liked this project (Am I normal?, Do I got ears?, Shouldn't I be ashamed?... ) after all the poisonous brainwashing posted in few different threads. I'm sure the negativity is not intended, but is more a result of emotional biased feedback with the brand anchored to memories and ideals. But whatever...

I hope to see more people coming with positive feedback, and my comment there is just there to try to break this dark loop. :emoji_sunny:
It’s been my assumption is that those who are enjoying this library do not feel comfortable posting here about it. Or possibly, they’re too busy making music with it ;)

Also, it seems that a lot of the critical posts are from people who have not used the library and are basing their opinions off of the demos (could be wrong).

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. I just appreciate fist hand experiences.

If you do own it and are disappointed, a demo of your own would be helpful in pointing out what you are disappointed in.

I myself am excited about this library and can’t wait till I can afford to purchase it.
 

ism

Senior Member
It’s been my assumption is that those who are enjoying this library do not feel comfortable posting here about it.
As someone who really likes this library, and has posted a demo, I think that's a real thing. And a manifestation of a very well established effect, that I've seen it in many, many contexts.

But this is just to say the on the internet ... there are group dynamics at play (shocking, I know).
 
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AlexanderSchiborr

Senior Member
On my side, I liked the walkthrough and I bought the library. I didn't have time to play much with it, but yesterday I used the 2 celli spiccato divisi with the solo strings one + some rev bus, and I really enjoyed the sonic result.

I'm a bit surprised by all the continuous negativity about the product and the company.

Imho, I don't think it brings any value to the discussion when I read some assumptions about the recording, or some comments about how Spitifre should drive its own business, or even worst some repetitive bashing because its not what people expect for their personal needs, or compared to what they already got.

Hey, relax :emoji_tulip:, maybe this library was not designed for you. And if that would be the case, why would you suffer from any kind of indignity? As lot of people didn't forget to mention, there are lot of other opportunities in the sampling library world now. And I'm wondering why is it so important for some people to repetitively convince the others this is not THE real thing, and they should do like them, not buy it?

Just wanted to post these few words because you cannot even imagine how I just feel strange and alone to write I liked this project (Am I normal?, Do I got ears?, Shouldn't I be ashamed?... ) after all the poisonous brainwashing posted in few different threads. I'm sure the negativity is not intended, but is more a result of emotional biased feedback with the brand anchored to memories and ideals. But whatever...

I hope to see more people coming with positive feedback, and my comment there is just there to try to break this dark loop. :emoji_sunny:
It is good that you enjoy the new library, and I guess nobody here wants to speak bad about that library. I think the library does a great job for that emotional Film / TV Underscoring enviroment. So imo SFA aimed not to release a product to extremes here in terms of replicating Williams string stuff or some classical mockups. And it is not needed because the target audience are not a few people like me or Noam or Mike V. who dont´want to write to the strengths of a library but to their own needs but the mass market. SFA thinks also a lot about their target audience and they are definitely not the people who like to score oldschool shit.
 

anderslink

New Member
It is good that you enjoy the new library, and I guess nobody here wants to speak bad about that library. I think the library does a great job for that emotional Film / TV Underscoring enviroment. So imo SFA aimed not to release a product to extremes here in terms of replicating Williams string stuff or some classical mockups. And it is not needed because the target audience are not a few people like me or Noam or Mike V. who dont´want to write to the strengths of a library but to their own needs but the mass market. SFA thinks also a lot about their target audience and they are definitely not the people who like to score oldschool shit.
I feel like some people are giving SF a little too much credit. There's no reason we can't push them to make content that works for more than underscoring. Sacconi's legatos are not fantastic and that was 100% marketed, conceived, and designed for string quartet music which is about as classic, nuanced, and high art as you can get. I LOVE Sacconi for non lead writing though. I also don't think Embertone's Joshua Bell violin is perfect either but definitely a huge step up. One of the main problems with any library for lead lines is the attacks just start to sound way too similar.

I love Spitfire's products and realize there are always limitations to sample libraries. I just think for the quality they are aiming for, the money they are making, and the amount of people they have hired to work for them there's no reason to hold back realistic critique. The goal is clear - they want to be as good as they possibly can be. Don't let marketing get in the way of knowing that there is always room for improvement.

It must be hard to be one of the leading sample developers!
 
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