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A large "Sinatra" sound from CSS. Is it obtainable?

Thorgod10

New Member
Been working on a project where strings need to sound full, yet very intimate.
The track itself (especially where strings come in) do require a bit of intense vibrato, and I've found that CSS fills that gap the best for a spacey, yet intimate sound.
My current problem is that I need to make each section sound quite a bit "fuller" to match the context of the piece, and I'm having quite a hard time achieving this without using other libraries.
If anyone would happen to know how to make such a library sound more "close" and "full," it would be much appreciated! :)

Video Link for reference(at 2:56):
 

NoamL

Winter <3
It's not gonna be easy with CSS alone as it's about half the size you'd want for matching the recording. I would use CSS close mics to create the detailed legato and the old school vibrato, and then in the background I'd layer SSS or LASS (or HWS with the vintage mics perhaps?) to create the impression of larger sections.
 

Saxer

Senior Member
It's mainly the sound of close three part voicing with octave doubling and espressivo vibrato. You need four violin tracks to get the divisi chords. I think CSS is the best choice along with Berlin Strings 'strong vibrato legato' or Soaring Strings (while Soaring Strings doing divisi might be a bad idea as they doesn't even have a second violin). I would just try to open another first and second violin track in CSS. In the Sinatra track they hard panned the first and second violins apart.
 

Nick Batzdorf

Moderator
Moderator
What I hear: that sound is the string section miked in a studio (rather than from a distance in a concert hall), but the bigness comes from reverb - most likely the live chamber at Capitol Records, but who knows.

Trying to get that sound with samples is going to be a miserable experience, now that you're comparing the two.

Beautiful writing. I had to look up the arranger, and Gordon Jenkins won the Grammy for it in 1966. So did Sinatra.

By the way, the recording is intimate, but I don't think it's a small section the whole way through. Small violin sections sound like dog's breakfast when they're playing high, and they can't get that powerful and smooth. Plus the unmeasured tremolo chords at the beginning sound like lots of players (although it could be mixed with regular bows).
 

Lee Blaske

Senior Member
Not sure if you'll be able to get it with that library. There are a lot of things that go into that sound. Lots of vibrato in specific places, and portamento. Plus, vintage reverb and some compression. Also, either a full con sordino section, or half and half. I've had some luck getting that sound with VSL, using a combination of solo, chamber and orchestra. Having a solo sample on the top helps. The arrangement and voicings are very important. Here's one example (a little more hi-fi than the Sinatra example, though).

https://www.reverbnation.com/leeblaske/song/19151365-lush
 

Lee Blaske

Senior Member
Also, record each part as a monophonic, legato line. Don't try to play the entire ensemble all at one time. If I were trying to do this today, I think I would gravitate toward Dimension Strings, using some of the vintage mic options in MIR.
 

robgb

I was young once
My current problem is that I need to make each section sound quite a bit "fuller" to match the context of the piece, and I'm having quite a hard time achieving this without using other libraries.
So why not use other libraries?
 
OP
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Thorgod10

New Member
I think LASS is best bet.


I wasn't playing as high there, but that's the legato sordino patches - and I feel like it wouldn't take many steps further to get closer to the sound in that video

and it does come with first chair(which I'm not using at all here, just A B C sections)
I don't know, unless It has been updated, the one thing that has set me off of LASS is the lack of vibrato intensity.
If there's a trick to intensify vibrato, I would of course buy it in a heart beat.
 

Joram

Active Member
Part of the sound is made by the recording techniques and equipment of that era, which had it's consequences regarding playing style and instrumentation.
 

Saxer

Senior Member
What vst's did you use for this?
Also, if you used spitfire, it unfortunately lacks the marcato required for that aggressive romance sound.
I used VSL Dimension Strings. I tried CSS first but I couldn't get it to play in time.

I don't know, unless It has been updated, the one thing that has set me off of LASS is the lack of vibrato intensity.
If there's a trick to intensify vibrato, I would of course buy it in a heart beat.
It doesn't really add vibrato but detuning the three LASS sections about +/-5cent can make it sound more like a big vibrato section.
 

muk

Senior Member
From the get go I thought: that is a job for Saxer! DS comes fairly close soundwise in my opinion. By the way @Saxer, your stacking of SCS with sample modelling is close as well if I remember correctly.
 
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