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A full Berlin template (purged) is running ridiculously high in ram

Discussion in 'SAMPLE Talk' started by SimonCharlesHanna, Apr 30, 2017.

  1. Ashermusic

    Ashermusic Senior Member

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    Man, in t never fails to amaze me how some people spend a whole lotta time complaining about how some things could be better, should be better, etc. when they could be making music.

    Just saying.
     
    jononotbono, tmhuud, dcoscina and 4 others like this.
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    SimonCharlesHanna

    SimonCharlesHanna Senior Member

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    Unfortunately I can't because Orchestral Tools took all my ram :geek:
     
    Alex Niedt, sazema and C-Wave like this.
  3. Phryq

    Phryq AlbertMcKay.com

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    Ya, I'm spending too much time on here instead of making music.
     
  4. C-Wave

    C-Wave Senior Member

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    Ultra, IT IS a state of mind.. not a state of knowledge. To elaborate, see what they do with samples:
    1. Berlin Strings: Basses has these known issues for ages. Can only be fixed by recording the samples, no way around it. Their reaction : we're working on it..NO YOU'RE NOT!
    2. Berlin Strings: First chairs has these wrong samples that need to be re-recorded. Their reaction: we're working on it..NO YOU'RE NOT!EXIT: EDIT: yes you did update at no cost.. kudos! Looking forward to doing the same with Woodwinds exp. A; still waiting.
    3. Nocturne Cello: lots of wrong samples .some of them can be fixed in editing, others need to be re-sampled. Their support reaction: yes we acknowledge them.. their support reaction few months later: what problems, no problems, Cello is perfect!
    4. Ark 2: To be realistic here, I am talking about re-editing several instruments; not the noise issues; waiting for Godot.
    5. Berlin Brass? Couple of months later and they fix it! they know it's crucial to their image.
    So you see? In the same way they won't do anything about anything unless they can see that their image is tarnished. It's a management policy, not a technical aspect of the problem.
     
    Last edited: Aug 9, 2018
    Ultra likes this.
  5. C-Wave

    C-Wave Senior Member

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    Do like I did.. spend double the money by re-buying everything all over again from a reputable company like VSL; who actually trust their products enough that they allow them to be resold.
     
    Zoot_Rollo, novaburst and Critz like this.
  6. Ultra

    Ultra Senior Member

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    Couldn't agree more, that is why I said what I said repeatedly ;)

    If they'd taken the time after BWW, receiving all that feedback, to sit down and revise their lib architecture around the pitfalls that Kontakt has, and come up with an optimized system (or as I said at least provide a bare bones patch as a resource saving alternative - there's various ways of tackling this), then all libs after that (BST|BPC|BBR) would have benefited from that. And all of us.

    But you need somebody who knows what they're doing as Capsule is a larger implementation.
     
    C-Wave likes this.
  7. Phryq

    Phryq AlbertMcKay.com

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    Something I don't get... Chris Hein's system can do everything Capsule can do, and even more. But his instruments are not taking up these insane amounts of RAM.
     
    Zoot_Rollo likes this.
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    SimonCharlesHanna

    SimonCharlesHanna Senior Member

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    That was the same issue I brought up with VSL's VIP. In fact VIP is the most full featured, most stable player on the market for a fraction of the foot print. I just don't understand.
     
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  9. Phryq

    Phryq AlbertMcKay.com

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    Can VIP make any articulation legato? Switch articulations mid-note? Note-heads? Scripted vibrato? Body IRs?

    On thing Capsule can do that Chris Hein's doesn't - 4 way articulation x-fade. Though I think it's not really that great.

    I've never used VIP, but I'd be pretty shocked if it could do all that.
     
  10. C-Wave

    C-Wave Senior Member

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    I actually have a slightly different stand with Capsule; VIP CAN save you money in hardware (Ram) while making you pay, literally, with their expensive VI's. But VSL NEVER produced an unfinished library to the market.THAT is my issue with OT; I refuse to be anybody's undeclared and unwilling PAYING beta tester.
     
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  11. Confuzzly

    Confuzzly Active Member

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    For the sake of balanced discussion, I use OT libraries every day (except for brass which I don't own yet), and have never had an issue. I think they are fantastic and certainly wouldn't call them unfinished or anything like that.

    With that said, they do use a lot of ram, and with OT having pretty much sampled an entire orchestra, I would love to see them focus on optimizing Capsule's performance.
     
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  12. Critz

    Critz Senior Member

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    I'd say it's not Capsule to do that things, but Kontakt. OT just came out with this capsule thing, but actually every orchestral library for kontakt has it's own scripting, even if they don't look for a cool name for it. I want to be clear, I think OT libraries are pretty amazing, the only libraries with a natural approach similar to VSL (and with a better sound for the moment). But this capsule thing is a non-sense, imho.

    The 4-way articulations it's almost useless. A 2-way cross fading articulation can be done in VIP for sure.
    Switch articulation mid-note? Yes, from any articulation you can have legato switching to the legato articulation.

    Could you explain the Body ir and scripted tremolo? can't find anything online, thanks!
     
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  13. Phryq

    Phryq AlbertMcKay.com

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    I agree the 4-way articulations are pretty useless.

    Switch articulation mid note, what I meant is holding a note, e.g. sustain, and press a key and it turns into a trill seamlessly, then let go and it becomes a sustain again. Christ Hein and Embertone both allow this (Capsule can do it with it's x-fade, but personally I think the Hein/Embertone works better).

    So VIP allows e.g. legato transitions with the portato/tremolo/trill samples? Hein allows legato between literally any samples, so I think he wins here. Looking at the VSL site, it seems only certain articulations are legato.

    Sorry, I meant Scripted vibrato. So with Embertone and Hein you can use CC to control vibrato speed/depth, and it actually sounds quite good. Hein uses sampled vibrato as well, whereas Embertone is entirely scripted (but their scripting does sound good). They also have scripted sordino (meaning all articulations can be sordino, without any more sample-overhead). And Embertone will allow you to change bow-position using phase-aligned samples of the bow at different positions.

    Body IR - Hein has a short IR option for his strings, which changes the 'body tone'. Because his samples are ultra dry, these tiny IRs allow you to give the instruments different tones (like, a larger/darker/woodier violin, or a brighter, more nasal violin).
     
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    SimonCharlesHanna

    SimonCharlesHanna Senior Member

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    FYI I upgraded to 128gig.

    My full berlin template is about 70 gig purged haha.

    start utilizing all the mic positions and you're talking about a dizzying amount of ram usage.

    It's awesome having everything at your fingertips though :D
     
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  15. C-Wave

    C-Wave Senior Member

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    Hi,
    Thanks for reporting that.
    1. can you please elaborate (list) those OT libraries that used 70GB in Ram?
    2. when you say purged, do you mean no mics whatsoever, or with one mic. active, if you have one mic active then which one?
    thanks.
     
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    SimonCharlesHanna

    SimonCharlesHanna Senior Member

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    All BS, BB, BWW, BP (perc), Harps, ARK Choirs. Tree mics originally but I've just changed so all mics are loaded but muted (for easier mixing). I'd have to check to see if the ram footprint is bigger now.
     
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  17. C-Wave

    C-Wave Senior Member

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    Sorry , more questions:
    1. “..but muted”.. you mean not purged, just muted? does muting without purging affect ram load?
    2. These above are just the main libraries.. no expansions, correct?
     
    Last edited: Aug 9, 2018
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    SimonCharlesHanna

    SimonCharlesHanna Senior Member

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    Expansions included (except brass additional & winds solo 2)

    everything is purged, but I have activated all mics (turned them on). I haven't checked the ram usage since I've done that. Next time I have a chance, ill let you know.
     
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  19. TimCox

    TimCox Senior Member

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    I'm running 32gb of ram using BB+mutes and BWW+EXP A and sitting at about 82% at all times. I'm also using CSS, LADD, and some HOP.

    It can bog down occasionally when it gets heavy but I'm usually doing just fine
     
  20. galactic orange

    galactic orange Sensor Number

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    FWIW I’d like to know the RAM usage for that setup too.
     
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