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A few months later... how is VEP 7 treating you?

novaburst

Senior Member
I would say VEPro 6 and 7 are the same in CPU performance, tho i must admit i did not have this impression to begin with, there is a little twist that goes with it that may give VEpro 7 an advantage if you use the provided plugins they may be more efficient than 3rd party plugins, giving 7 a slight edge.

There is a kind of completeness that VEpro 7 portrays, it is very nice to use over 5 and 6.

I did have a few negative feelings towards 7 but using it for a day or so has erased them all, very nice software its like VSL have squeezed every last bit of software knowledge and innovation and placing it in VEpro 7 you can easily see its one of there center developments.
 

rhye

Member
Working well here, but I am not really using any of the new features and I am sure that I had a slightly better performance and faster opening times on v6
 

Eloy

Member
Thank you for your great input. I had purchased the software months ago- seems like time to install.
 
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Dewdman42

Senior Member
There is definitely some performance difference with VEP7 compared to VEP6 on the mac. VEP7 is improved substantially, but only if you are on Mojave (or possibly High Sierra). When I first upgraded to VEP7 I was on Sierra and performance was worse then VEP6. I complained about it on the internet and ended up working closely with Martin at VSL to figure it out. We both ran tests on our systems and he even made some improvements to VEP7 that made it even faster, but in the end, we decided that I needed to upgrade to Mojave and when I did VEP7 out performed VEP6. The difference was particularly noted when the GUI was open (as opposed to being minimized), so the difference was not related to DSP, it was more related to OSX and graphics, etc.. It seems that VEP7 makes use of Metal and stuff that you need to be on Mojave to take advantage of, and if you aren't its a little slower. This is primarily related to a third party GUI development library that VEP is using, which has added performance improvements that take advantage of OSX Mojave, unfortunately at the expense of being a little more sluggish on older OSX. Its not a big difference, but a little bit yes.

I should add also that my system is using HiDPI on the monitor (ie, Retina display) which may have also contributed to the results in some way.
 

novaburst

Senior Member
There is definitely some performance difference with VEP7 compared to VEP6 on the mac. VEP7 is improved substantially, but only if you are on Mojave (or possibly High Sierra). When I first upgraded to VEP7 I was on Sierra and performance was worse then VEP6. I complained about it on the internet and ended up working closely with Martin at VSL to figure it out. We both ran tests on our systems and he even made some improvements to VEP7 that made it even faster, but in the end, we decided that I needed to upgrade to Mojave and when I did VEP7 out performed VEP6. The difference was particularly noted when the GUI was open (as opposed to being minimized), so the difference was not related to DSP, it was more related to OSX and graphics, etc.. It seems that VEP7 makes use of Metal and stuff that you need to be on Mojave to take advantage of, and if you aren't its a little slower. This is primarily related to a third party GUI development library that VEP is using, which has added performance improvements that take advantage of OSX Mojave, unfortunately at the expense of being a little more sluggish on older OSX. Its not a big difference, but a little bit yes.

I should add also that my system is using HiDPI on the monitor (ie, Retina display) which may have also contributed to the results in some way.
This must be only a Mac related and also the graphics related on the Mac,

As VEPro is running a dream works on my PC and a dated graphics cards and dated OS windows 7 seems that VSL are still doing perfect coding for windows 7, its as stable as a rock and a delight to use.

The latest Cubase is also running very solid in windows 7 but the software did request to remove high contrast Themes and replace with Aero Themes a more graphic intense color if you did not change this option cubase 10 would not load.

I do certainly hope these developers continue to develop for windows 7 as i think its the sweet spot from Microsoft, not sure if i could bare an OS that forces you to update and puts some things out of harmony on your system, when windows 10 decides inconvenience times to slap an update on your system that can be a real bummer but not so much if your only using office and excel, but for music software it can be a headache.

Unless Microsoft change there stance on windows 10 and i know you can turn off updates on the pro, but only with in a time limit but unless they change Mac is the best option as far as i can see.

Can you imagine when W 10 updates do you know the whole world is updating together or at least every one that has W 10 that OS is certainly not composer friendly but its strengths are more suited for the office worker.
 

rlw

Rod Wilson
I like the many new features in VEP 7, but I am disappointed in automation feature in Logic Pro x. I am having issues with Kontakt automation when mapping the different Mics such as SSO extended mics with Smart Controls. I am using Lemur attached with Smart Controls to set the various mic combinations for my various projects. I have multis with all articulations and 11 mics mapped with automation control. In VEP 6, the automation worked seamlessly and the Smart Controls Display decimal reading for the various mics. However in VEP 7, the mics in Kontakt display percentage. While Lemur will still change the various Mic levels, the Smart Controls freeze to the initial Percentage of the control and the Range Max and Range Min lock to the same value and prevent me from changing them. Also, the Smart Control Displays will not change to any new value even though Lemur can still change the Mic levels in Kontakt even though Lemur is connected thru the Smart Controls. In VEP 6, I had depended on the decimal read out used track automation in Logic to alter the mics that were mapped to the Parameters, however these will also no longer work with VEP 7. My old projects where I have saved values for the various mics no longer change the mic levels of Kontakt in VEP 7. I created a ticket almost 2 weeks ago and have recieve no response from Vienna except for the automated verification of the ticket. I have 128 gb of ram on my iMac Pro and my templates are very large so I still use my PC slave machine. If i can't resolve the automation issues, i may need to step away from VEP and just add more memory to my iMac Pro. I do like the new feature in VEP 7 but my workflow requires that automation work with Kontakt since I have so many extensive libraries with Kontakt. I have considered trying to down load VEP 6 again and going back but I was experience some issues with VEP 6 that seemed to be resolved in VEP 7. Has anyone else had, and/or , resolved automation issues with VEP 7, Kontakt 6 and Logic Pro X? My next issue with VEP 7 automation is that the parameters in VEP 7 are now just a "one to one" mapping. In VEP 6 I could map one VEP parameter to multiple mic controls in Kontakt so that in my multis, I could alter the gain of the same Mic in multiple plugins in the same Multi . I can not seem to do the same in VEP 7. For instance, I can now only map one parameter to just one instance of say the "Close Mic".
 

novaburst

Senior Member
anyone else had, and/or , resolved automation issues with VEP 7, Kontakt 6 and Logic Pro X?
using cubase 10 VEpro 7 and PC and no automation issues in Kontakt 5. i would if i was you rig up a quick new test project and try it in that , it may be a time wasting but at least you can rule out an existing project issue you may hove glitched out because of your project from VEpro 6 into 7 just a guess
 

rlw

Rod Wilson
Thanks for the reply. I have built a temp test with just one track. I think the problem is the combination with Logic Pro x smart controls and the interplay with kontakt. Here is a picture of the Smart Control in a new Logic Pro Project. I have Lemur mapped to the Smart Control also. Again this worked in VEP 6. Screen Shot 2019-09-14 at 12.30.27 AM.png
 

rlw

Rod Wilson
I also use VEP 7 to host HZ Strings and with HZ Strings the controls list DB and they work without issue. My only other issue is that in VEP 7 I can only map one Parameter to one Mic control. In VEP 6 i had 11 channels in VEP 6 all loaded with an HZ Strings Plugin. I used one parameter to control the same mic in each of the 11 channels. In VEP 7, I can only assign a parameter to one channel Mic.
 

novaburst

Senior Member
i dont use the automation built in VEpro i find no need for it, when my instruments are in VEpro i automate directly from the instrument,

So maybe there may be an issue like you said

Is there any reason or advantage why you would use the automation built in VEpro i just never felt the need for it or maybe there is an advantage i have not seen.
 

rlw

Rod Wilson
By using parameters, I don't need to clone channel control across multiple midi channels when I want to effect the same mic in multiple channel instances where each channel has the same mic. Also, I use the feedback in the Smart Controls to display the gain for instance of the Close Mics verse the Tree Mics verses the Outrigger and so on. I don't have to navigate to the Instance in VEP to see the Mics settings. I can use Lemur but I will have to redesign the feedback because I only display the sliders and midi feedback with CCs seems to be problematic while the connection using the Parameters with Smart Controls worked great in VEP 6. I would hope that when we do upgrades with VEP, existing functionality would not be broken with the next upgrade. While the automation in VEP 7 has a nicer look and slightly easier mapping feature, it is not as powerful as it was in VEP 6 and much more limited. I don't feel that Vienna is interested in addressing the problems they created in the release of VEP 7. When there seems to be indifference by developers to support the functionality in upgrades, most users finally decided to leave those products and move toward developers who are open to provide consistency. I spent weeks of intense development of my workflow with the automation functionality in VEP 6. I don't relish redesigning again. If I do, I tend to move away from products where developers are not responding to users. I can't afford to always be in a design mode after every change or upgrade unless there is a compelling reason. VEP 6 automation functionality was more superior to VEP 7 because it supported a "one to many relationship" with Parameters, the VEP 7 UI only supports mapping in a "One to One Relationship". ( as a side note, VEP 7 uses the projects I built in VEP 6 with "one to many" relations, but I can't edit or add them, this is a UI problem that must be addressed ) A "one to many" approach reduces the number of necessary messages between the DAW and VEP. Cloning midi messages when multiplied over 100s of tracks creates huge performance hits. I have Kontakt multis with 8 to 12 instances of a plugin and each instance has the same mic combinations. Mapping 12 parameters to change one mic in each of the plugins is not an efficient way to manage or work automation. I can redesign each instrument in my template to have one Smart Control to control 12 or more parameters, but now that does not even work with any VEP instance where Kontakt is concerned. I must choose Kontakt over VEP. If I forget VEP all together, I will lose the convenience that VEP provides having a one VEP project so that my load times are much better with Logic Pro. But that may be the decision I may be forced to make. Drop VEP, add more memory to the iMac Pro and forget VEP and the slave machines.
 
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rlw

Rod Wilson
Thanks for the reply. I have built a temp test with just one track. I think the problem is the combination with Logic Pro x smart controls and the interplay with kontakt. Here is a picture of the Smart Control in a new Logic Pro Project. I have Lemur mapped to the Smart Control also. Again this worked in VEP 6. View attachment 22495
I am thankful to report that the update today on VEP 7 has solved some of my big issues. Now I get a proper Smart Control "feedback" with Percentage in Logic Pro X when connecting to Kontakt and also Logic X Track automation of VEP 7 mapped parameters works again. There is still an issue with not being able to alter the Range Min and Range Max on the Smart Controls but it seems I can still alter the actual value of the control beyond the limits of the Range Min and Range Max values. I can live with this faulty functionality but the one remaining big issue that is very important to my workflow is that VEP Parameters in a VEP instance can only be mapped to one item or control in the VEP 7 instance. As I mentioned earlier, I was able to map one parameter to multiple controls in multiple instrument channels in VEP 6.
 

antonikoll

New Member
For those of you who've taken the plunge, how are you finding VEP 7 a few months since the initial release? how is the performance and stability (especially compared to VEP 6 ?) Are you comfortable using VEP 7 on major projects ?

Ive been holding off on upgrading until things settle and most of the kinks have been worked out. Should I take the plunge?

I'm currently on a Mac running Logic Pro with a PC slave and VEP 6 running Win. 7
I Just update in VEP 7 (cubase 10 windows 64 64gb ram), VEP 7 is sluggish when I connect the instances. Furthermore is slower when loading the instances at the beginning (disable all tracks) . Well I will downgrade to VEP 6, was much faster. Thanks . I thought that they have fixed already but no..
 
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nas

nas

Active Member
I took the plunge and so far it's been pretty solid. Running on a PC server with Win. 7 and my main machine is running LPX. Had some issue with LPX and Mojave stability but it's not from VEP 7.. may be a plugin causing some issues - nothing serious though.

Load and save times may be slightly longer on larger templates but there are some great features in VEP 7 (like switching off instances and saving RAM) that really make it well worth the upgrade.

Loving it so far.
 

prodigalson

Senior Member
VEP 7 is generally fine for me here (Logic Pro 10.4.6 on Mojave). I still get occasional crashes with a “kontakt encountered a problem” error although it happened with VEP 6 too.

Also, strange bug I’ve been encountering is that when I do reopen a project after a crash the project opens BEFORE the pop up with the option to load last saved project. So you have to let the project load and THEN choose to load the last saved project...that then loads all over again.

But nothing workflow killing. Just small annoyances
 
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