A different take on Cubase templates

[Grizzlymv]

Interested in this approach, have a couple of questions.
1. Is the folder structure in arrange window retained? For eg if you load a preset of a vlns 1 does it automatically go to *strings* folder you have on arrange view?
2. Similarly, what is the order in which the tracks end up laid out? I have a strict order in my disabled track template that follows standard orchestral score instrument order.
thanks

1. As far as I can tell, the folder is not retained, but the color is. So what I do is I go under the desired folder and I add my track from there.

2. The order goes to how you load your tracks. It's the same as if you start with a blank project and add new tracks to it. So as with the previous point, you just select a track near where you want the new one, and it will appear below. So for instance, I want a new instrument under my 5th woodwinds, then I'd select the track of my 5th woodwind, then add a track preset, and it would appear as the 6th one. If that make sense?

 

[Synetos]

One thing I was wondering...is there a way to reorder the fields that are populated when you initially are saving a preset?
It seems not to matter what I have selected in the Attribute inspector. All i get are the same six attributes that are the Cubase defaults when I try to save a new preset.

 

[Grizzlymv]

in the Save screen, you can't customize it today. I did open a request with Steinberg to allow this screen to be modified with the fields we select. Not sure if they will ever add this though.
So it's basically a 2 steps process. 1, you save using (or not) the default fields in the save screen. 2, you get in the mediabay and you edit the fields you need from there (which is what I do). A little bummer, but you do it only once.

 

[Synetos]

in the Save screen, you can't customize it today. I did open a request with Steinberg to allow this screen to be modified with the fields we select. Not sure if they will ever add this though.
So it's basically a 2 steps process. 1, you save using (or not) the default fields in the save screen. 2, you get in the mediabay and you edit the fields you need from there (which is what I do). A little bummer, but you do it only once.

Okay. No wonder I couldnt find a way. Thanks

 

[labornvain]

I started using track presets about 5 years ago after spending over a month building a template with 2500 disabled tracks only to discover a bug in Cubase whereas the midi input would be lost when you re-enable each track.

That bug has since been fixed but it compelled me to not waste all the effort and I proceeded to save track presets for all 2500 tracks.

One thing that's really cool that I haven't seen mentioned is that you can also save multitrack presets. You just select multiple tracks at once, right click on one of them, and save track preset. So I have track presets that contain for example all of my violin Longs, all of my violin shorts etcetera.

Unfortunately, the database has been defective from the beginning. In 10.5, it seems to be a lot better, with less freezing and other issues.

But the unreliability has led me to avoid the database as much as possible, so I don't use any of the metadata or any of that part of the database functionality.

I merely organize everything into folders with a hierarchical structure the classifieds instrument types, like strings brass Etc, and then subfolders with the different instruments and their articulations.

These folders which you can access from the media manager are actual Windows folders so you can open them in Explorer and perform edits and reorganization and various other functions without having to use the database at all.

Once you're back in Cubase, open the database and refresh and any changes you made from within Explorer will be reflected.

Another benefit of just using the folder system is that it's really fast. I probably create a new track preset every time I open Cubase. I have them for my orchestral libraries, my guitars, various other instruments, vocals, mixbus, etc etc Etc. and lots of effects.

I can find them all easily because they're all sorted into their little folders and they're named carefully.

I also create dedicated folders of track presets for specific projects. This is fairly useful cuz sometimes I like to steal track presets from one project to reuse in another.

Oh yeah, the thing I really like about multi-track presets is that I usually write in my head, play in the part, and then surf around for the best library for that part.

So once I playing my part, I can load for example all of my legato violas and then drag the midi part to each one to see which one fits best. It might be a weird way to work, but it works for me.

 

[Grizzlymv]

Unfortunately, the database has been defective from the beginning. In 10.5, it seems to be a lot better, with less freezing and other issues.

But the unreliability has led me to avoid the database as much as possible, so I don't use any of the metadata or any of that part of the database functionality.

What do you mean by the "database"? and what issues you were having? Since the trackpresets are just files in folders, which Cubase reads and display in the MediaBay, I'm not sure there's any saving in a master list or something that would act like a database. Unless you're refering to another part? I have to admit though that I never really tried the trackpresets before 10.5 so I'm not how well it performed in previous versions, but in 10.5, it's lightning fast. As I type, the results gets filtered instantly. Same if I click a property. So far, it's behaving better than expected. Apart for the known limitations already discussed.

I do like your approach for the multi though. So far it was mainly to load a section (violins, with all art, or a slimmed down version with most common articulations, etc). But having to move around the midi data into the different tracks to find the one that give the best result is quite interresting! The main reason I'm not using much the multi is the fact it's slow to load (slow due to the amount of instruments to load, not because the process is broken). But I should give it a second try. thanks for sharing this!

 

[labornvain]

What do you mean by the "database"? and what issues you were having? Since the trackpresets are just files in folders, which Cubase reads and display in the MediaBay, I'm not sure there's any saving in a master list or something that would act like a database. Unless you're refering to another part? I have to admit though that I never really tried the trackpresets before 10.5 so I'm not how well it performed in previous versions, but in 10.5, it's lightning fast. As I type, the results gets filtered instantly. Same if I click a property. So far, it's behaving better than expected. Apart for the known limitations already discussed.

I do like your approach for the multi though. So far it was mainly to load a section (violins, with all art, or a slimmed down version with most common articulations, etc). But having to move around the midi data into the different tracks to find the one that give the best result is quite interresting! The main reason I'm not using much the multi is the fact it's slow to load (slow due to the amount of instruments to load, not because the process is broken). But I should give it a second try. thanks for sharing this!

Yeah media Bay is a database driven component. This is where it gets all the functionality that I don't use, like filters and other organizational functions.

Indeed it is true, as I noted in my original comment, that all the track presets are stored in folders on your hard drive. But to access those folders and their content from within Cubase, you have to do this through the database.

Aa for the problems, as I said 10.5 appears to have been a vast Improvement. But it was notorious for bugs and other such problems like becoming corrupted. The big problem for me usually, as I also noted in my original comment, was just that it would freeze. It still freezes but just not for as long.

The media Bay has always been rubbish. Poorly conceived poorly coded. Now that finally, after 10 years, they've gotten some of the bugs out of it, people may actually find some of the advanced features of the media Bay useful. But those features will still be unintuitive and unnecessary.

My first big criticism of the media Bay was how hard it is to create presets and have them be distinguishable from the crappy Steinberg presets that came preloaded. I think I spent six hours just trying to delete the Steinberg presets which are undeletable.

So I hid the filter section and just used the directory view. That made them usable for me as a means to store and retrieve presets, but even that worked poorly a lot of the time. It works better now.

 

[mjsalam]

It is a huge issue for me. I have to work extremely fast and even a few seconds would break my workflow. Steinberg knows all about this and with a little pushing I think they will add it to Cubase 11. PLease repost in their forum.

LOGIC has a simple great implementation that Steinberg should do something similar.

Here is a screen shot of what LOGIC does....

Do you still have this screenshot? Its not showing for me and I'm curious what you were referring to.

 

[Sample Fuel]

Do you still have this screenshot? Its not showing for me and I'm curious what you were referring to.

I don't have the screen shot anymore. I am still pushing for this feature but I don't expect it to make it in the initial Cubase 11 release.... but I am still hopeful it will be addressed not too far in the future.

 

[Guffy]

Quick question - If you saved a bunch of track presets using kontakt, and later update kontakt to a newer version, will the presets still work, or would you have to redo them one by one?

 

[Grizzlymv]

Quick question - If you saved a bunch of track presets using kontakt, and later update kontakt to a newer version, will the presets still work, or would you have to redo them one by one?

If you still have the previous version of Kontakt installed, it will work. But I believe it won't update to the newer version automatically. Just like with a disabled template or VEP template. I mean, if you had Kontakt 5.0.0 and you update it to 5.1.8 it will work and update. but if you had Kontakt 5.0.0 and you install Kontakt 6.0.0 since it's a new release rather than an update to a current one, that won't work. Make sense?

 

[Guffy]

If you still have the previous version of Kontakt installed, it will work. But I believe it won't update to the newer version automatically. Just like with a disabled template or VEP template. I mean, if you had Kontakt 5.0.0 and you update it to 5.1.8 it will work and update. but if you had Kontakt 5.0.0 and you install Kontakt 6.0.0 since it's a new release rather than an update to a current one, that won't work. Make sense?

Gotcha!
Not a big deal then i guess, considering the time between those. I usually keep them installed side by side anyway. Thanks!

 

[Guffy]

One more thing i noticed - after a crash or restart, the mediabay seems to forget my settings (Hide folders that are not scanned, show only selected folder, etc).
Is this normal? It would be nice if i didn't have to check those boxes every single time
I've also crashed numerous times now while fiddling around in the mediabay. The list of things Steinberg needs to fix seems endless..

 

[Grizzlymv]

One more thing i noticed - after a crash or restart, the mediabay seems to forget my settings (Hide folders that are not scanned, show only selected folder, etc).
Is this normal? It would be nice if i didn't have to check those boxes every single time
I've also crashed numerous times now while fiddling around in the mediabay. The list of things Steinberg needs to fix seems endless..

It works fine here. However I did notice such behavior in general in cubae. What I'd recommend is to do your settings, once completed close cubase, which will remember your settings, then start again. If it crash at this point, it will restart with the last good condition, meaning with the settings you had last time you closed it properly. That should work.

 

[Sartorius]

Great topic!

Thanks to Grizzlymv and to all those who participate in its discussion!

I also use Track Presets in my daily work. It is very convenient and gives creative freedom, unlike templates. But I have one interesting observation. If two different Track Presets have Expression Maps of the same content, then when such presets are added to the project, they have one Expression Map with the same name. For example, there are two Track Presets - Violin.trackpreset and Cello.trackpreset. They use the same Expression Maps, but the names of these Expression Maps are Violin Map and Cello Map. When added to the project, only the Expression Map from the Violin will be added. The Cello will receive an Expression Map from the Violin. Thus, it brings confusion to the project.

Sorry for my English. A bit confusing, I understand. Try this experiment. Thanks!

 

[Grizzlymv]

That's a very interesting find you just made. I no longer use Expression Map as I prefer to use 1 art per track, so I didn't notice this before, but you're right. I did try with my old Expression Map for CSS ensemble and CSSS ensemble, and no matter what I do, CSS always load up with the CSSS expression map...wierd. That sounds like a bug to me and should probably be reported to Steinberg so they can hopefully fix it eventually.

 

[Sartorius]

Dear Grizzlymv,
thank you so much for your quick response! Unfortunately, I have never written to Steinberg support before. I don’t know how to do it. I have been working in this program for 30 years , but I have never written to them. Please tell me where to write. Or maybe you yourself will write to them?

And one more question for you. In what state do you usually save Track Presets - disabled or enabled? It's very interesting to know your opinion. What is best for you in practice?

 

[Grizzlymv]

Dear Grizzlymv,
thank you so much for your quick response! Unfortunately, I have never written to Steinberg support before. I don’t know how to do it. I have been working in this program for 30 years , but I have never written to them. Please tell me where to write. Or maybe you yourself will write to them?

And one more question for you. In what state do you usually save Track Presets - disabled or enabled? It's very interesting to know your opinion. What is best for you in practice?

I never really did myself either, however, I posted something on their forum regarding issues and improvements wishlist which hopefully will get some traction. I edited my original post to include your issue in there (https://www.steinberg.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=285&t=193522&p=1021711#p1021711).

Regarding your 2nd question, I use them enabled. It's mainly because I don't want to add an extra step to enable the track once loaded, and beside, if I don't need it, I just don't add it to the project. If it's being added, it's because I want to use so not sure what would be the point of loading it disabled then, in my case.

I can't really think of a scenario that the disabled state of a track would be useful with the track presets. Maybe if you save a large group of tracks as a template, or let's say save a whole section (ie Violins) with 1 articulation per track, then you may want to load it in your project, but unsure which ones you'll use yet and want to have them pre-loaded in the project. But again, enabling a track or loading a track preset take the same amount of time, so not sure where the gain would be, beside a personal preference maybe? Or maybe for another case scenario I don't see.

I'd have to see if they improved a bit the Track Presets with Cubase 11. I'm still on 10.5 at the moment.

 

[J-M]

I'm currently building a similar template, only with track archives. My most used stuff is inside VEPro, while the less used is imported from the archive when needed. I'd prefer having everything at my disposal immediately, but my PC can't quite handle that...

 

[Sartorius]

@Grizzlymv,
I have a question. For example, Spitfire Audio Chamber Strings has 194 individual articulations. Do you create your own Track Preset for each of them? What to do in this particular case? Or do you create multi-presets for each group (Violins I, Violins II, Violas, Celli, Basses and Ensembles)?