A different take on Cubase templates

[Grizzlymv]

For those who like to work with templates, we all know there's several different approach that exist. Personally, I've been experimenting with several of them in the past few years. From a empty one where you load your instruments from the browser/library tab, to an all disabled tracks (1000+ tracks), using quickloads, or a mix of disabled tracks with Vienna Ensemble Pro, or even to go all VEP across one or several computers, each of them provides pros and cons (which I won't go in details here as it would be too long) and while they worked to various degrees, none of them reached the level of agility/scalability/functionality that I've been experiencing using the one below for me.

For the past few months, I decided to give a shot using track presets and the internal browser. So I started from my all disabled tracks template, and saved each one of them as an individual Track Preset. Over time, I kept growing the DB with new samples, or variation of existing ones as I was working on projects. The cool thing about this, is that you can customize a track (instrument) to your liking, save it, and it's already there and ready to go for any other project in the future.

Many of you might already know about track presets, so it won't be anything new. But for me, it's how you can easily work with them once you took the time to properly set the browser and saved your presets with all relevant info. Then it becomes a very powerful tool!

When you add a track from a preset (right-click Add Track / Using track presets, or like me, mapped a button on a HW controller), it presents you with a nice browser where you can search per different tags/fields/category or just start typing text and Cubase will find all relevant entries instantly.


Obviously, the more detailed you make your instruments information, the more efficient the search will be in the future. In my case, I added Plugin Vendor for the dev (ie Heavyocity), Album for the name library (ie Scoring Guitars) and comment as I like to add some extra comments which help categorizing the instrument. then you can adjust the columns to show in the browser/add track screen too.


The nice thing is you can define which fields you want to use or don't, so you're not forced to go with what Cubase present you with by default. There's several other fields available to use depending on your needs


Also, by default Cubase will have a bunch of stuff in the browser, mainly coming from the bundled VST that comes with Cubase. I didn't want to see them so I did a clean up and removed everything from the DB and only display the track preset I did, based on my libraries. Makes it for a much cleaner and relevant experience for me.



That's a purely subjective list of pros and cons based on my personal taste and experience.
Pros
- You can start from a very lightweight template. In my case, it contains the folders, group tracks, fx tracks, tempo, video, audio and markers.
- Project files are much smaller (just a few Mb, compare to almost 1 Gb with an all disabled tracks).
- Very easy to search for instruments.
- Almost as quick to add an instrument then enabling a track.
- Easy and quick to maintain
- A track preset retains everything about the instruments (settings in the VST, EQ on the tracks, volume, balance, midi channel, inserts, etc). The only thing it doesn't seem to save are Sends and Routing)
- Track presets are actually just an XML file saved on the HDD, so the way it's displayed on the browser is how you structure them on the HDD. Make it easy to share with colleagues when you work on shared project (you must own the same libs though).
- you can save individual tracks (which I do), or multiple tracks at once (for a string section for instance)
- Fairly quick to save an track preset too, so if you do some nice custom settings on an instrument, you can save it and add it to your DB easily, so it's available for a future project.
- Don't have to re-do templates all over again.

Cons
- So far, the routing and sends aren't saved with a track preset, so you have to bind them as you load an instrument. However, this can easily be attenuated by using the Q-Link function in the mix screen which allow to change settings across multiple tracks at once.
- takes quite some time to build the DB.
- It's a Cubase specific feature
- Saving a track preset only shows few default fields. If you added custom or extra ones, you'll have to do a second pass through the MediaBay browser to add missing data.


Anyway, it may not be the next best thing in town, but for me it's day and night with any previously used approach. The main downside is that it takes quite some time to build it properly (took me a few days to build the initial DB), but it's worth the effort once you start using it.

I never really seen this approach being discussed or covered in tutorials and since it makes it much more functional for me, I wanted to share it in case it can also be interesting for others.

I know I can't do without it anymore.

Update June 2021:
Here's a video overview of how I'm using it. Hope it's gonna be useful to some. Feel free to ask any questions:


Cheers

Click to read more...

 

[Mike Bonta]

Wow, thank you! That's agreat ideea!

 

[matthieuL]

Interesting and very tempting ! Thanks for sharing.
But the main downside for me is that, as soon we have an orchestra for example, the file size becomes too much big and so we have too long save times.

 

[Grizzlymv]

Interesting and very tempting ! Thanks for sharing.
But the main downside for me is that, as soon we have an orchestra for example, the file size becomes too much big and so we have too long save times.

That's true. the more tracks you have, the bigger the CPR file size gets and slower is the save and loading of the project file. However, it's still way smaller (faster) than using a full disabled tracks in Cubase, and the same impact as if you start with a blank project and add instrument tracks as you go. But if you're using VEP and all of your tracks are MIDI Rack tracks (instead of Instrument tracks) with only a few instances of VEP connectors, then yes obviously, CPR file size will be smaller and therefore loading/saving time reduced. At the end of the day, it's a personal choice on where you want to do your tradeoffs, as you have to do some no matter which solutions you use. For me, I can deal with the loading/saving time as I don't always work with a full orchestra template. the pros of the track presets largely outcomes the cons. but again, it's not the same for everyone.

 

[Grizzlymv]

To add to my first post, here's a few more tips for those interested to give it a shot.

By default, Cubase comes with a bunch of VSTs (Halion, Padshop, Retrologue, etc) which all comes with track presets as well. So if you open the Media Browser (F5) you'll end up with a bunch of instrument there that may not be of interest to you. Or if like me, you prefer to have only the content you created in there, you might want to start fresh. To do so

1) in the Media Bay, make sure to uncheck all folders, except the Track Presets one.

2) Select the Track Presets folder, or if like me you only use individual instruments/tracks, select Instrument:

3) If not already done, click on the Star at the top to add it as Favorites (in my case, I added Track Presets, Instrument and Multi in the favorites). Icon should be white. If grayed out like in the screenshot below, that means it's already in favorites list.

4) and then, to keep things clean, in the settings screen (first wheel on the top right of the MediaBay screen), make sure to check "Show only selected Folder" and increase the maximum items in results list. I set to to 10000.


That way, when you open the Add Track Preset screen, or the MediaBay, it will search only within your content, given that you save your track preset in the default Track Presets folder hierarchy (like I did) which should be located in your user profile (C:\Users\<your username>\AppData\Roaming\Steinberg\Track Presets). I don't know on Mac though.

Then the way I saved my track preset is as follow:

under Track Presets \ Instrument folder, I created a folder per vendor (or developper) so:

- Track Presets
- Instruments
- Cinematic Studio Series
- Spitfire Audio
- ...

And then within each vendor folder, I added 1 folder per libraries if I intend to have multiple track presets
- Track Presets
- Instruments
- Cinematic Studio Series
- CSS
- CSSS
- CSB
- Spitfire Audio
- Albion One
- Albion Tundra
- ...
- ...

And then I would save my track preset within the library folder.
- Track Presets
- Instruments
- Cinematic Studio Series
- CSS
- Basses Bartok Snap.trackpreset
- Basses Col Legno.trackpreset
- Basses Measured Trem.trackpreset
- ...

or if it's a single instrument and have only 1 track preset for it, then I would save it at the root of the vendor folder
- Track Presets
- Instruments
- Cinematic Studio Series
- CSPiano (Reverb).trackpreset


But then, since it's only xml like files on a HDD, you can easily go in your track preset folder, and reorganize it the way you want and it will show up instantly accordingly in the MediaBay and AddTrack screens. Much easier/faster to do it outside of Cubase then within the MediaBay. So really, you can organize it the way you want and add the metadata you want so in the end it works to your liking.

Have fun trying it out. Don't hesitate if you have any questions. I'd be curious to hear your thoughts as well if you try it out.

Cheers.

 

[Sample Fuel]

I too am going this route.....but the not saving the sens and routing is too big of a deal. I am heavily pushing Steinberg to add this on their beta forum right now for Cubase 11. LOGIC already has this well implemented and it is a very easy thing for Steinberg to add since this information is already implemented in track archive import/export.

Now is the time to push for this. Please go onto Steinberg's public Cubase forum and re-post what you wrote here in detail but with the purpose to get the full routing and sends added to the feature set of Cubase 11. I will chime in over there once you post.

Thanks

 

[Grizzlymv]

I too am going this route.....but the not saving the sens and routing is too big of a deal. I am heavily pushing Steinberg to add this on their beta forum right now for Cubase 11. LOGIC already has this well implemented and it is a very easy thing for Steinberg to add since this information is already implemented in track archive import/export.

Now is the time to push for this. Please go onto Steinberg's public Cubase forum and re-post what you wrote here in detail but with the purpose to get the full routing and sends added to the feature set of Cubase 11. I will chime in over there once you post.

Thanks

I'll check to post it on Cubase forums. I'm curious though about how big is the impact for you regarding the missing Sends / Routing?

In my case, I leverage the Q-Link functionality of the mixer which allow me to quickly set the Sends and routing of multiple tracks at once.



Then you select the right Routing for the selection


And it will change all selected tracks to the same routing.


Same concept for Sends. You click on a Send from ONE of the selected tracks (make sure Q-Link is enabled):


Then you edit only that track, and all selected will copy the setting live, from the one you're editing, as long as the Q-Link option is activated. Then you can uncheck Q-Link and fine tune a Sends setting for a specific track.




I agree, the best would be that cubase saves it as part of the track preset, but in the meantime, while a bit annoying, that workaround is relatively fast/easy to use depending on how you use them.

Cheers

 

[Sample Fuel]

It is a huge issue for me. I have to work extremely fast and even a few seconds would break my workflow. Steinberg knows all about this and with a little pushing I think they will add it to Cubase 11. PLease repost in their forum.

LOGIC has a simple great implementation that Steinberg should do something similar.

Here is a screen shot of what LOGIC does....

 

[Sample Fuel]

I'll check to post it on Cubase forums. I'm curious though about how big is the impact for you regarding the missing Sends / Routing?

In my case, I leverage the Q-Link functionality of the mixer which allow me to quickly set the Sends and routing of multiple tracks at once.



Then you select the right Routing for the selection


And it will change all selected tracks to the same routing.


Same concept for Sends. You click on a Send from ONE of the selected tracks (make sure Q-Link is enabled):


Then you edit only that track, and all selected will copy the setting live, from the one you're editing, as long as the Q-Link option is activated. Then you can uncheck Q-Link and fine tune a Sends setting for a specific track.




I agree, the best would be that cubase saves it as part of the track preset, but in the meantime, while a bit annoying, that workaround is relatively fast/easy to use depending on how you use them.

Cheers

Yes there are some fairly quick work arounds....you can also copy a mixer channel of something similar and than hilight all the new channels and hit paste.

 

[Grizzlymv]

Yes there are some fairly quick work arounds....you can also copy a mixer channel of something similar and than hilight all the new channels and hit paste.

Thanks for sharing. I didn't know that one. Pretty cool trick

 

[OLB]

Interesting approach, thanks for sharing!

Just tried it on Nuendo 10.3 and it seems to remember all the sends. That's great. The output routing unfortunately is set to Stereo Out.

 

[jeffreycl]

Thanks for all this. I discovered Media Bay for sound effects earlier this year but never thought about track presets. I had been looking for something that didn't cost an arm and a leg to search through my SFX. I discovered the same functionality you showed in early posts about narrowing down the locations. Suddenly I found that I had all the functionality of paid SFX databases right within Cubase. I could search key words and it quickly brings in the list and just by using the up and down arrow keys, I can preview the list until I find the sound I'm looking for. Media Bay now occupies half of one of the four screens I use. I am definitely going to look into track presets as well and probably build the database as I go (or need a distraction to clear my mind).

 

[Grizzlymv]

Interesting approach, thanks for sharing!

Just tried it on Nuendo 10.3 and it seems to remember all the sends. That's great. The output routing unfortunately is set to Stereo Out.

I've noticed in Cubase that it happen sometime as well, but it was only when I saved the track preset from the active project I was working on, and then loading the track preset again, without closing/reopening my project. As soon as it's a newly loaded or different project (but still with the same group tracks and FX tracks) it doesn't remember the mapping. In Nuendo, if you save from a project, then load another project that has the same group/fx tracks and load the track preset, can you confirm it still works?

 

[Grizzlymv]

Thanks for all this. I discovered Media Bay for sound effects earlier this year but never thought about track presets. I had been looking for something that didn't cost an arm and a leg to search through my SFX. I discovered the same functionality you showed in early posts about narrowing down the locations. Suddenly I found that I had all the functionality of paid SFX databases right within Cubase. I could search key words and it quickly brings in the list and just by using the up and down arrow keys, I can preview the list until I find the sound I'm looking for. Media Bay now occupies half of one of the four screens I use. I am definitely going to look into track presets as well and probably build the database as I go (or need a distraction to clear my mind).

I know! That's exactly what brought me into using track presets. I didn't want something specific to a plugin (ie kontakt quickloads) but wanted to cover any plugins I have (Play, Kontakt, Spitfire Audio, SINE, etc). the MediaBay is doing just that and it's so quick to find instruments with it. With this, you put the tech away, and focus on the creativity without losing your inspiration. I'm still surprised I can't see much discussions around this functionality given how powerful it is, albeit you take the time to build it properly.

 

[OLB]

I've noticed in Cubase that it happen sometime as well, but it was only when I saved the track preset from the active project I was working on, and then loading the track preset again, without closing/reopening my project. As soon as it's a newly loaded or different project (but still with the same group tracks and FX tracks) it doesn't remember the mapping. In Nuendo, if you save from a project, then load another project that has the same group/fx tracks and load the track preset, can you confirm it still works?

Alright - I restart Nuendo, then open an empty project. Import the Group tracks (bussing) and FX tracks from my template. Then I open the track preset (Kontakt with some inserts etc) and it has all the sends there connected to the appropriate FX route. The output to the Stereo Out. That would be the only one to change accordingly.

I‘d find it strange that it would be different than Cubase so could it be that it has to do with the bussing system?

 

[Grizzlymv]

I too am going this route.....but the not saving the sens and routing is too big of a deal. I am heavily pushing Steinberg to add this on their beta forum right now for Cubase 11. LOGIC already has this well implemented and it is a very easy thing for Steinberg to add since this information is already implemented in track archive import/export.

Now is the time to push for this. Please go onto Steinberg's public Cubase forum and re-post what you wrote here in detail but with the purpose to get the full routing and sends added to the feature set of Cubase 11. I will chime in over there once you post.

Thanks

Here's the link to the thread on the Cubase forum in case anyone wants to chime in so Steinberg revisit the track presets and add the support for Sends/Route support, and a few other things I suggested to improve the track presets: https://www.steinberg.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=285&t=193522&sid=fc0b6d2638343a61fab8b06cfb2cbf0d

cheers.

 

[telecode101]

..

 

[MoeWalsaad]

Thanks for sharing,

as for Track presets, back during Cubase 8 times, I used your very similar Track presets to save a large amount of instrument track libraries, but I gave up on this mainly because I couldn't load several presets at once back at that time, and also the track preset window takes too much time to load, maybe because I used a slow HDD back then, or track presets were reading from too many unnecessary directories.

but I like how you optimize the track preset window, you encourage me to give this method another shot. and see what updates were done to the Track presets menu during these years, if the reading is fast I will probably switch back to the track preset method.

in case this may help bring some insights to your method, right now I'm also testing a workflow that makes use of Cubase feature of "Importing tracks from another project", and what I'm doing is preparing a super Grand Template project that has all my favorite libraries loaded. I don't use that project to create music, but I only import from it all the instruments that I want.

One good thing about importing a track from another project is that it can preserve the routing, but you need similar channel groups with the same names ready in your main project.

the cons so far are that It's a slow process. especially if you are importing from a large project, also reading a huge list is eye-fatiguing and easy to miss or forget to check some tracks that I wanted to import.
I still need more time to put this method on functional practice and optimize it further. and maybe create a hybrid method between importing and Track Presets similar to yours.

Thanks for sharing.

 

[Hywel]

Thanks for sharing,

as for Track presets, back during Cubase 8 times, I used your very similar Track presets to save a large amount of instrument track libraries, but I gave up on this mainly because I couldn't load several presets at once back at that time, and also the track preset window takes too much time to load, maybe because I used a slow HDD back then, or track presets were reading from too many unnecessary directories.

but I like how you optimize the track preset window, you encourage me to give this method another shot. and see what updates were done to the Track presets menu during these years, if the reading is fast I will probably switch back to the track preset method.

in case this may help bring some insights to your method, right now I'm also testing a workflow that makes use of Cubase feature of "Importing tracks from another project", and what I'm doing is preparing a super Grand Template project that has all my favorite libraries loaded. I don't use that project to create music, but I only import from it all the instruments that I want.

One good thing about importing a track from another project is that it can preserve the routing, but you need similar channel groups with the same names ready in your main project.

the cons so far are that It's a slow process. especially if you are importing from a large project, also reading a huge list is eye-fatiguing and easy to miss or forget to check some tracks that I wanted to import.
I still need more time to put this method on functional practice and optimize it further. and maybe create a hybrid method between importing and Track Presets similar to yours.

Thanks for sharing.

This is my favoured method as well of loading tracks into a "bare bones" sketch template.

 

[Grizzlymv]

in case this may help bring some insights to your method, right now I'm also testing a workflow that makes use of Cubase feature of "Importing tracks from another project", and what I'm doing is preparing a super Grand Template project that has all my favorite libraries loaded. I don't use that project to create music, but I only import from it all the instruments that I want.

One good thing about importing a track from another project is that it can preserve the routing, but you need similar channel groups with the same names ready in your main project.

the cons so far are that It's a slow process. especially if you are importing from a large project, also reading a huge list is eye-fatiguing and easy to miss or forget to check some tracks that I wanted to import.

That's interesting too. I did explore that avenue when I moved to Cubase 10.5 before exploring the track presets. However it wasn't working for me. To start with, my main reference project was probably too big so whenever I tried to import a track from that project, it would take forever to load, and sometime even crash. Was working better with split projects (orchestral tracks in one, other tracks in another CPR). When it was working it was great though, however, my main complain was that I had to remember which tracks was what with no real way to search for an instrument rather than scrolling and remembering which track was what. I feel the import from project feature works best when you recently worked on a project and want to bring back some tracks, or if you are working on something that will require several cues to share similar sounds, then this becomes very handy.

The main power With the Track Preset approach for me, is that I can expand the information regarding an instrument (track) and quickly do a search for a specific style/sound based on various information rather than on a specific track, and the result is instant. This is a game changer for me. It also works with any plugins (Kontakt, Play, Sine, etc). It's fast and flexible. I don't have that with the import from project feature. Or maybe I used the track import in the wrong way, but so far for me the cons of the track presets are smaller than the cons of the track imports.

If you try the hybrid approach though, I'd be curious to know more about it though. Maybe it could be the best of both worlds.