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A couple of questions for Logic users

marclawsonmusic

Senior Member
I use Logic and VEPro for years now and setting up a template is now a very easy thing for me...

PS - I have spent literally weeks in the environment doing complex routing for VE Pro only to fall back on the most basic solution of using multi-timbral instruments - one for each VE Pro Instance / Instrument.

For example, if you are using LASS Violins 1 and want one MIDI channel per articulation (say there are 8), create one software instrument track (in Logic) as multi-timbral with ‘8 Parts’. Route this to a VE Pro instance hosting a Kontakt multi with 8 MIDI channels. Rinse and repeat for each unique instrument (V1, V2, VA, VC, CB, etc). There will be lots of VE Pro instances but it will work fine and you can do all of this without using the environment (or the multiport solution from Vienna).

My 2 cents. YMMV of course.
 
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musicalweather

musicalweather

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There will be lots of VE Pro instances but it will work fine and you can do all of this without using the environment (or the multiport solution from Vienna).
Just curious: are you able to have individual track control over mute/solo/volume?
 

marclawsonmusic

Senior Member
Just curious: are you able to have individual track control over mute/solo/volume?

Not at the MIDI track level, no. But I don’t know why you would need that level of control if they are just articulations for a single instrument. I typically balance the articulations inside of the Kontakt multi.

PS - You can always use MIDI automation on CC7 if you really need to unnaturally magnify a specific articulation beyond its normally-balanced volume level.
 
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musicalweather

musicalweather

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I automate channel volume as well as expression and other midi cc's for nearly all instruments. It's not always a matter of magnifying an articulation beyond its normal balance level. It doesn't look like one can control the volume of individual channels in Logic without going the multiple-outs+ aux tracks route. Kind of a pain, imo.
 

marclawsonmusic

Senior Member
If you need individual audio returns for each articulation, yes it is a pain. I just don’t understand why anyone would need that.
 

Dewdman42

Senior Member
Well first of all, you can absolutely automate all aspects of midi, regardless of whether the fader slider on the track header actually works as desired. So yes in all of the various multi-timbral modes we have talked about, you can automate both CC7 and CC11 to the midi channel, no problemo.

The question about the track header fader/mute/solo buttons is really just about why when you move the fader on one track, all the other tracks on that same multi-instrument also move with it. The reason is because in that mode of operation, the fader is attached to the main mixer fader of the instrument they are all assigned to. In that multi-timbral mode you have up to 16 tracks, that are all assigned to the same mixer instrument channel that is hosting a multi instrument. Each track uses a different midi channel, but ultimately they are all sending their midi to that one instrument on the mixer inst channel. And basically the track header faders, in that mode, all are wired to the main stereo mixer fader on that one instrument. If you move the track header fader, the mixer fader for the instrument channel is what is moved...and on the main 1-2 output of whatever plugin is hosted there.

If you open the plugin up as Nick showed, and make sure the instrument is using more outputs, then go to the logic mixer and hit the + button a few times, you'll have various AUX channels getting the different audio feeds from that multi-instrument, but still the track header faders will all be pointing to the main stereo output 1-2 of that multi instrument and there is nothing you can do about that, in that mode. Same with the mute/solo buttons on the track header.

You don't have to use those track header sliders or buttons by the way, you can always go to the mixer and control things there.

But in any case, regardless of that flukey track header behavior, each one of those tracks can still have its own MIDI automation that can address CC7 and CC11 and any other midi CC's you feel like, on a track by track basis to the instrument, channelized by midi channel.
 
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Dewdman42

Senior Member
@musicalweather, one aspect of Logic to be aware of is that tracks and mixer channels are not the same thing. They are completely independent objects with different functions. Usually a particular track is "assigned" to a particular channel...and Logic does some automagical stuff in the GUI as you click around...so that it kind of seems like they are one and the same. but they are not. Tracks are in the sequencer, tracks hold midi and audio regions and the sequencer plays back tracks. Then tracks are "assigned" to things, usually to channels, but they can also be assigned to environment objects. In the mixer channel is where the plugins are hosted.

One of the automagical aspects of the LogicX gui is that the track header detects when it is assigned to a mixer channel and in that case the track header slider is directed to control the mixer channel fader, rather then anything related to the track itself. In the case of a multi-timbral instrument, that is still basically a single instrument channel with a single fader...so all of tracks assigned to that multi-instrument channel will basically be controlling the same instrument channel fader.

And when you add the extra AUX channels for multi-out audio, then unfortunately the track headers are not smart enough to figure that out, they just keep controlling the main instrument channel.

If you use the AUX track trick from that video you posted, I didn't watch it so we'll assume that's what it is....but anyway, in that case, the track header of each track is directly assigned to the AUX channel in question and then Logic *IS* smart enough to know the track fader should control exactly that AUX channel fader...

And in the case of using the environment approach, the track header doesn't even know its assigned to any channels, it truly thinks its just a simple midi track, so it behaves that way and effects CC7 instead of channel fader.
 

Dewdman42

Senior Member
another advantage of using the environment approach is that the mixer will have a dedicated midi channel for the track. So not only will you see the track header fader effecting CC7 of that midi track, but the mixer will have a midi channel with a vertical fader that also effects CC7. And you can have up to 5 other midi parameters that actually appear on that mixer midi channel strip, you can assign them to anything you want.

For example, here is one strip with fader hitting CC7, and a knob for CC11, CC2 and CC20. So you could easily tweak those values from the mixer strip..or observe them changing due to midi track automation.

midimix.jpg

You can configure up to 5 of those extra controls on the midi mixer channels.
 
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musicalweather

musicalweather

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If you use the AUX track trick from that video you posted
What he did in this video was create aux tracks (for a multi-instrument) in the mixer, highlight them, and then use the control T command to create tracks in the tracks window. These new tracks allowed individual control of midi instruments. He then deleted the old midi tracks (that were not individually controllable) that were set up initially.

For example, here is one strip with fader hitting CC7, and a knob for CC11, CC2 and CC20
Now that is cool!
 

Dewdman42

Senior Member
What he did in this video was create aux tracks (for a multi-instrument) in the mixer, highlight them, and then use the control T command to create tracks in the tracks window. These new tracks allowed individual control of midi instruments.

Just to reiterate, you always have individual control of the midi channels, with all three approaches. The big difference is that the horizontal slider on the track header is wired up differently in each case, if you even use it..I don't ever use it. I do use the mute/solo buttons though...

With the AUX trick, the slider goes to the correct AUDIO channel fader..its not related to midi at all in that case. But still midi can be automated on that track.

Read the comparison doc I wrote with the pros and cons...each of these multi-timbral approaches has some pros and cons.
 
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