A clear example of VST guitars gone wrong

Discussion in 'SAMPLE Talk' started by TheNorseman, Jul 9, 2018.

  1. JonAdamich

    JonAdamich Senior Member

    Jan 24, 2016
    I love the ending to the Star Trek clip
  2. MrLinssi

    MrLinssi A glorified bedroom musician.

    Oct 1, 2016
    Oh dear, that sounds almost as horrible as that Lil' Wayne solo.
  3. thov72

    thov72 Senior Membr

    Dec 28, 2014
    fART !
  4. newman

    newman Member

    Apr 14, 2016
    That is a real guitar.

    Also a terrible song.

    Nuno Bettencourt did a lot of recent recording & touring with Rihanna so this could be him. Or Santana. Or sampled and processed. Who knows. . .
  5. Pianolando

    Pianolando Senior Member

    Dec 7, 2013
    Santana! Always sounds like crap.
  6. reutunes

    reutunes Senior Member

    May 1, 2012
    I'm genuinely quite shocked by the amount of vitriol generated by this thread. It's a pop song with a little guitar riff and a decent hook. Is it the best song in the world? No, certainly not. But maybe everyone needs to calm down a little and step back from the mic. Imagine if you met the producer of this track at a party... I'm sure you wouldn't be so judgemental about his work. In fact, I think that most people would be a bit jealous of the success this track has garnered. Perspective folks.
  7. OP

    TheNorseman Senior Member

    Jun 27, 2017
    I'm certainly not criticizing the song. I think it's a good song. And Rihanna looks fantastic in the video of course. The whole point of this thread was to point out what I believe to be a VI guitar solo since it sounds just that to me. I can't believe more of you guitar players don't agree with me on this.
  8. gyprock

    gyprock Senior Member

    Dec 16, 2010
    I think you'll get a lot of guitar players that might compose on their instrument but then use a VST for tweakability and/or ease of production. This is particularly true if you don't have a lot of different guitars, pedals, microphones and amps and just want to add some guitar texture in a mix without all the associated setup. Of course you wouldn't do a Wes Montgomery or Jimi Hendrix tribute album with a VST but for riffs, chordal vamps and other textures I think they're perfectly valid. At the end of the day, if the average listener thinks its a guitar then the VST has done its job.
    Desire Inspires, mike753 and tcollins like this.
  9. kitekrazy

    kitekrazy Senior Member

    Dec 23, 2008
    I doubt the "average" listener cares.
  10. Ronald Wilson

    Ronald Wilson Member

    Feb 1, 2018
    VST's don't sound that bad.

    C'mon. It's a sample. It's altered. And it wasn't played that great to begin with, tbh. I like Santana, but that's pretty bad playing from him. Personally I still think it sounds passable. It's just too loud in the mix, but maybe that's youtube's poor audio quality.

    VST guitars are constantly used in metal subgenres and sound fine, along with drum replacement. People don't know how good guitar VST's sound because people lie about using them (mainly because they don't feel like dealing with musicians who think anything sampled is awful/makes you a DJ or musically illiterate fans who think it's "auto tuned"/sampled/fake and they're not "real musicians") and can only pick out people doing an awful, awful job. When they're done right, which is an awful lot, you just think they're guitars. The distortion helps, a lot.

    I'm only mediocre at the stuff and I can do a dead on Django. Montgomery is flat out easy, the tone is the only minor stumbling block (it's easier to nail something with more distortion and that's not a hollowbody/archtop because there are fewer VSTs). Hendrix is hard, but doable, mostly because he was an utterly atrocious technical player not because anything he played is difficult to replicate. You use a fuzz pedal FX in the chain and throw in a dom7#9 and some fingering "errors" and 99.9% of the populace can't tell the difference. Slash is easy as hell too - you use a marshall with his setting, an LP and bend a lot of pentatonic stuff. The more a guitarist has a "signature sound" the easier he/she is to imitate with a VST.

    Could a trained guitarist tell?

    Everyone prides themselves on being able to identify a "real" instrument. The truth is, even well-trained musicians sometimes can't. I got offered a theorbo gig one time based on a track despite never even having seen a theorbo IRL. But if you're knocking off a riff for someone, it's probably not to impress guitarists, it's probably for a revival band, a commercial or a library.
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2018
  11. Simon Ravn

    Simon Ravn Senior Member

    It definitely sounds real. No way a VI could do that, unless it was pre-recorded that way.
  12. NYC Composer

    NYC Composer Senior Member

    Jul 24, 2008
    Please, please post your Hendrix solo. Make it in his style, but not anything he ever played, rather notes of your own. This I truly want to hear.
    Lawson., chillbot and Lode_Runner like this.
  13. Polkasound

    Polkasound Senior Member

    Apr 20, 2016
    Milwaukee, WI
    Let's keep in mind that Wild Thoughts is not by Santana, Jimi Hendrix, Eric Clapton, or Eddie Van Halen. It's by DJ Khaled. As the producer of his song, he decided that it called for simple, repetitious, lackluster guitar parts -- ones which could have been performed using samples, synthesis, a cheap guitar, or Santana himself. But no matter how he would have decided to record the guitar parts, they would have ended up sounding the same... repetitious and lackluster... because that's exactly how DJ Khaled wanted them.

    The Middle-Eastern-sounding horn on GDFR by Flo Rida is a perfect example of how real-sounding instruments are often not supposed to sound too real. The apparently-sampled/synthesized sound of the horn, just like the lifeless guitar work in Khaled's song, fits the style of the music.
    Lawson. likes this.
  14. procreative

    procreative Senior Member

    Mar 12, 2013
    United Kingdom
    Also dont forget R&B draws from Hip Hop which began its roots in scratching vinyl, where the "joins" were real and the stuttering a by-product of the method. When sampling took off, it too had limitations on sample length and variation.

    So even though total realism is possible, a nod to the beginnings is a stylistic part of the genre.

    But while we might not all drool over the guitar, to me it "sounds" real (possibly).

    What is "real" anyway? Real bands...

    Like Ozzy Osborne having his vocals bounced to tape and dropped in later in the track? Like Dimmu Borgir using a drum machine to take care of the Dual Pedal Kick Drums? Not to mention the secret session players...

    I used to record at a residential studio used by major label acts as their "demo studio" (lucky them). The engineer related stories of the guitarist out of Big Country driving him mad. He was so used to edits that he would play snippets of every line bit by bit as he was used to someone piecing it together (this was 92-93 way before DAWS).
    Ronald Wilson likes this.
  15. OP

    TheNorseman Senior Member

    Jun 27, 2017
    Actually a VI could do exactly that. As a matter of fact, if you were to play that same solo on a midi keyboard, it would sound exactly the way it sounds in this song.
  16. Guffy

    Guffy Member Of The Year

    Sep 13, 2013
    Can you post an example? I'd love to hear it.
    Lawson. and Paul Cardon like this.
  17. DSmolken

    DSmolken Senior Member

    Jun 30, 2016
    Yup. I think that kind of stuff is just plain fun. Organic, but not realistic. Cyborgy, as opposed to robotic. Sometimes downright transhumanist.

    If I wanted realistic, I could just stick to playing bass and make other people do all the rest of the work of playing the rest of the instruments. It'd be a lot less work.
    Wally Garten and Polkasound like this.
  18. BezO

    BezO The Artisan

    Jun 11, 2018
    Never thought I'd hear someone say that.
  19. OP

    TheNorseman Senior Member

    Jun 27, 2017
    Sure, here

    Ronald Wilson likes this.
  20. Wally Garten

    Wally Garten Senior Member

    Apr 23, 2018
    Now we just need a video on creating a convincing VST narrator. ☺

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