Discussion in 'SAMPLE Talk' started by TheNorseman, Jul 9, 2018.
I love the ending to the Star Trek clip
Oh dear, that sounds almost as horrible as that Lil' Wayne solo.
That is a real guitar.
Also a terrible song.
Nuno Bettencourt did a lot of recent recording & touring with Rihanna so this could be him. Or Santana. Or sampled and processed. Who knows. . .
Santana! Always sounds like crap.
I'm genuinely quite shocked by the amount of vitriol generated by this thread. It's a pop song with a little guitar riff and a decent hook. Is it the best song in the world? No, certainly not. But maybe everyone needs to calm down a little and step back from the mic. Imagine if you met the producer of this track at a party... I'm sure you wouldn't be so judgemental about his work. In fact, I think that most people would be a bit jealous of the success this track has garnered. Perspective folks.
I'm certainly not criticizing the song. I think it's a good song. And Rihanna looks fantastic in the video of course. The whole point of this thread was to point out what I believe to be a VI guitar solo since it sounds just that to me. I can't believe more of you guitar players don't agree with me on this.
I think you'll get a lot of guitar players that might compose on their instrument but then use a VST for tweakability and/or ease of production. This is particularly true if you don't have a lot of different guitars, pedals, microphones and amps and just want to add some guitar texture in a mix without all the associated setup. Of course you wouldn't do a Wes Montgomery or Jimi Hendrix tribute album with a VST but for riffs, chordal vamps and other textures I think they're perfectly valid. At the end of the day, if the average listener thinks its a guitar then the VST has done its job.
I doubt the "average" listener cares.
VST's don't sound that bad.
C'mon. It's a sample. It's altered. And it wasn't played that great to begin with, tbh. I like Santana, but that's pretty bad playing from him. Personally I still think it sounds passable. It's just too loud in the mix, but maybe that's youtube's poor audio quality.
VST guitars are constantly used in metal subgenres and sound fine, along with drum replacement. People don't know how good guitar VST's sound because people lie about using them (mainly because they don't feel like dealing with musicians who think anything sampled is awful/makes you a DJ or musically illiterate fans who think it's "auto tuned"/sampled/fake and they're not "real musicians") and can only pick out people doing an awful, awful job. When they're done right, which is an awful lot, you just think they're guitars. The distortion helps, a lot.
I'm only mediocre at the stuff and I can do a dead on Django. Montgomery is flat out easy, the tone is the only minor stumbling block (it's easier to nail something with more distortion and that's not a hollowbody/archtop because there are fewer VSTs). Hendrix is hard, but doable, mostly because he was an utterly atrocious technical player not because anything he played is difficult to replicate. You use a fuzz pedal FX in the chain and throw in a dom7#9 and some fingering "errors" and 99.9% of the populace can't tell the difference. Slash is easy as hell too - you use a marshall with his setting, an LP and bend a lot of pentatonic stuff. The more a guitarist has a "signature sound" the easier he/she is to imitate with a VST.
Could a trained guitarist tell?
Everyone prides themselves on being able to identify a "real" instrument. The truth is, even well-trained musicians sometimes can't. I got offered a theorbo gig one time based on a track despite never even having seen a theorbo IRL. But if you're knocking off a riff for someone, it's probably not to impress guitarists, it's probably for a revival band, a commercial or a library.
It definitely sounds real. No way a VI could do that, unless it was pre-recorded that way.
Please, please post your Hendrix solo. Make it in his style, but not anything he ever played, rather notes of your own. This I truly want to hear.
Let's keep in mind that Wild Thoughts is not by Santana, Jimi Hendrix, Eric Clapton, or Eddie Van Halen. It's by DJ Khaled. As the producer of his song, he decided that it called for simple, repetitious, lackluster guitar parts -- ones which could have been performed using samples, synthesis, a cheap guitar, or Santana himself. But no matter how he would have decided to record the guitar parts, they would have ended up sounding the same... repetitious and lackluster... because that's exactly how DJ Khaled wanted them.
The Middle-Eastern-sounding horn on GDFR by Flo Rida is a perfect example of how real-sounding instruments are often not supposed to sound too real. The apparently-sampled/synthesized sound of the horn, just like the lifeless guitar work in Khaled's song, fits the style of the music.
Also dont forget R&B draws from Hip Hop which began its roots in scratching vinyl, where the "joins" were real and the stuttering a by-product of the method. When sampling took off, it too had limitations on sample length and variation.
So even though total realism is possible, a nod to the beginnings is a stylistic part of the genre.
But while we might not all drool over the guitar, to me it "sounds" real (possibly).
What is "real" anyway? Real bands...
Like Ozzy Osborne having his vocals bounced to tape and dropped in later in the track? Like Dimmu Borgir using a drum machine to take care of the Dual Pedal Kick Drums? Not to mention the secret session players...
I used to record at a residential studio used by major label acts as their "demo studio" (lucky them). The engineer related stories of the guitarist out of Big Country driving him mad. He was so used to edits that he would play snippets of every line bit by bit as he was used to someone piecing it together (this was 92-93 way before DAWS).
Actually a VI could do exactly that. As a matter of fact, if you were to play that same solo on a midi keyboard, it would sound exactly the way it sounds in this song.
Can you post an example? I'd love to hear it.
Yup. I think that kind of stuff is just plain fun. Organic, but not realistic. Cyborgy, as opposed to robotic. Sometimes downright transhumanist.
If I wanted realistic, I could just stick to playing bass and make other people do all the rest of the work of playing the rest of the instruments. It'd be a lot less work.
Never thought I'd hear someone say that.
Now we just need a video on creating a convincing VST narrator. ☺
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