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91. Academy Awards Best Original Score

brek

Active Member
Hi. What do you mean by this? I keep looking at it and am not sure I am really getting it. Are you saying that John Williams in general creates something of less "artistic" value than some/most of the winners? That Black Panther's "art" quality is above say, the score to Vice or Red Sparrow (both of which were not nominated - and thanks to this thread I recently checked out, so, thanks for this thread everyone)? If so, agree to disagree I suppose.
You have to read that in context of what I wrote in the first half of the paragraph. I put scare quotes around "art" because I'm using it in the context of scores that are "unique" and "authentic." I wouldn't presume to be an arbiter of what makes something artistic, but I'm talking about voter perceptions.

None of that is to say a Williams score lacks artistry or a Greenwood or Reznor score lacks craftsmanship. At least I hope that's not the takeaway... lest I'm an even worse communicator than I thought.
 

patrick76

Senior Member
You have to read that in context of what I wrote in the first half of the paragraph. I put scare quotes around "art" because I'm using it in the context of scores that are "unique" and "authentic." I wouldn't presume to be an arbiter of what makes something artistic, but I'm talking about voter perceptions.

None of that is to say a Williams score lacks artistry or a Greenwood or Reznor score lacks craftsmanship. At least I hope that's not the takeaway... lest I'm an even worse communicator than I thought.
Ha. No, everyone else seemed to get it, so I think it was just me... :)
 

prodigalson

Senior Member
FWIW, I really loved the score to Beale Street. It positively glowed with a warmth that perfectly captured the essence of the lovers slowly falling in love.
 
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bachader

New Member
More ridiculous than, say, Avengers, or Ant-Man and the Wasp? Or Hulk or Guardians or Thor? And what's "ridiculous" about Black Panther? Thought Dr. Strange was more "realistic" or hewed closer to your idea of what's correct and what's not in a Marvel movie? Didn't care for the costumes or the gizmos? Found even more plot holes than usual?
The scores of other Marvel movies could be much worse but they were not awarded “best score”. I think that’s what surprised people.

Before I publicly denigrate the work of someone else, I try to make a little bit of effort. Besides, with projects like this it's pretty much impossible to know whether the stuff you didn't like -- or did -- arose primarily from the composer, the director, some producer, or somebody's girlfriend/boyfriend.
You are right, that is the ideal case. And, the comments of those who pay that effort will be much more valuable. But everybody is still free to comment on everything, right. Even those with no music background could comment on any music. We are also commenting on sample libraries, even on their prices. We should not expect someone to have tried all other sample libraries and compared the value/price ratios before saying that a sample library is too expensive or not worth of price.

Most of those could be transferred from any one Marvel movie to any other without the audience noticing a single thing. Not so with Black Panther's score.
Thanks. This is very useful tip. Maybe, this is the main factor making some members feel that the BP score sounds unusual/original.

I'm not holding it out to be the best, but I detest lazy attacks.
If a comment seems to be very superficial and does not seem well-studied why not just ignore it? No need to detest someone else’s comments.
 
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bachader

New Member
People (including me) were probably expecting a drama movie rather than a super hero movie for both "best score" and "best movie" category nominations. Thus, it could be surprising to many.

When I started the thread I was hoping to get some ideas about the recent trends in movie scores and even wondered if the traditional score writing is not popular in Hollywood anymore. Luckily, @Harzmusic shared his ideas about the distinguishing properties of BP, thematic development and cultural motives, unusual percussion and vocal parts. Although I don’t agree all of them, I find them very useful and listened to the soundtrack with those in mind.

Then I felt uncomfortable since I noticed that we are commenting (sometimes harshly) on a commercial stuff not on member compositions. There are so many people and organizations involved (agents, producers, film companies, music editors, trailer contractors etc.), many members in this forum may be involved or will be involved in the future with those people and organizations for a living. And some of us are anonymous and some of us are not, and some of us are industry professionals and some of us are just music enthusiasts.

Although they otherwise prefer to remain silent or just to ignore, professional non-anonymous members might feel obliged to comment on the negative comments or conversely they might avoid criticizing a commercial movie score publicly on this forum.

I think it is unfair to put members in such a position and I really feel a bit bad about it. Maybe, it is best not to post any further on this thread.

Respectfully,
 
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NoamL

Winter <3
reflexively attribute the win to racial apology.
Eh, I'd say toss it on the pile of several factors. Like how ROMA was never gonna win because it's Netflix. A Star Is Born was probably never really in contention either because it's "not Best Picture material."

Of course you could say I'm just guessing that and you'd be right.

BTW I don't think I've said in this thread that it's not a good score. Just that the Academy often nominates and sometimes awards scores for being in otherwise heavily awarded films.
 
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Drundfunk

Member
Yeah, please ignore everything I'm actually saying and form your own narrative. Just because Trump is doing it, doesn't mean the rest of the world should do it as well. If you are answering somebody at least try to read and understand what they are saying, because your paragraph about other Marvel movies makes no sense at all. I don't know about any "cult" following the movies you mentioned, but I sure as hell know about the SJ "cult" following Black Panther. (And no till this date Black Panther still isn't the first black superhero movie).
Before I publicly denigrate the work of someone else, I try to make a little bit of effort
Yeah that was definitely what I was doing. You may want to quote the specific paragraph where I was doing that. Or you can quote the part where I said that Ludwig Goransson is talented. Your choice, President T. .
I'll just end this here, because you are clearly completely confused.
I find it telling that your initial "link" was a playlist that was replete with incorrect cues
I mean, what?!
Most of those could be transferred from any one Marvel movie to any other without the audience noticing a single thing. Not so with Black Panther's score.
Just answering on this since I saw it before hitting reply. Maybe that has to do with the fact that other Marvel movies don't take place in a fictional Africa, but what the hell do I know.
 

toomanynotes

Active Member
Ennio Morricone will be pleased to know the trend continues and innovative composer works are still being recognised.
 

dcoscina

Senior Member
Gotta say guys, I'm a little disappointed. I usually seek refuge here from soundtrack fan site forums because we are all musicians (and I'd say a good % working composers to some degree) hence we understand the industry, the constraints and realities of writing film music.

Goransson should be lauded for his score. Even if we dismiss the beautiful African influences he injected into the fabric of the score, there is plenty of meat on Black Panther's bones. First, he composed several themes and key motives that are developed and recur throughout the score. In terms of architecture, Black Panther follows in the steps of classic superhero scores by its insistence on developing its central music ideas alongside the characters and narrative of the film. Even those "empty" or "generic" action cues some cite, you will hear recapitulations and quotes of that Wakanda Brass passage, melodic and harmonic variations of Klau's theme. Goransson brilliantly imbued Killmonger with a collision of African and African American music influences. This theme is also threaded in and around the other theme groups that dramatically ties this character and his motivations to the narrative as a whole.

It's a shame that BP is dismissed or invalidated under the auspicies of political correct or SJW or whatever the in vogue derogatory catch phrases for liberalism are these days. After viewing the film the first time, I was lukewarm about it. But I watched it again, and then again, and found the themes, both narratively and musically, more and more compelling. BP operates on various levels. It's an enjoyable, well made superhero film. But under its surface there's more there if one wants to posit it. Ludwig Goransson should be applauded for his efforts because he composed a score that has themes, that stands out within the film viewing experience (cannot tell you how many moments I noticed the music and thought "damn, this is really good writing"), and probes avenues that many of us would necessarily have thought of.
 

Parsifal666

I don't even own a DAW, I'm just a troll.
I was surprised the First Avenger and Avengers scores didn't at least get nominated.

To be completely forthright, I stopped taking the Academy seriously when I counted up how many Oscars Bernard Herrmann and Jerry Goldsmith took home.
 

dcoscina

Senior Member
I was surprised the First Avenger and Avengers scores didn't at least get nominated.

To be completely forthright, I stopped taking the Academy seriously when I counted up how many Oscars Bernard Herrmann and Jerry Goldsmith took home.
I haven't watched it since Williams' Memoirs of a Geisha lost to Brokeback Mountain. And that's about 120 hours I haven't missed out on.
 

NoamL

Winter <3
There have been too many snubs to count. Jumanji wasn't even nominated. HOW?!

But after looking it up, I notice that it was recognized as a nominee by the IFMCA. Seems like a point in favor of having a composers-only award with more nominees and a more music-literate academy of judges.
 

dcoscina

Senior Member
There have been too many snubs to count. Jumanji wasn't even nominated. HOW?!

But after looking it up, I notice that it was recognized as a nominee by the IFMCA. Seems like a point in favor of having a composers-only award with more nominees and a more music-literate academy of judges.
Powell has also done very well with IFMCA. He won 2 this year for Solo
 

AR

Senior Member
I just watched "Paterno". And that to me had the best score in 2018. Had to google up the composers. Never heard of them. Great job.

Speaking of Black Panther...are we seriously nominating Marvel movies now??? Damn, Hollywood really lost their track. My guess is sooner or later the Golden Globes will overrun the Oscars in all aspects.
 
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