9 virtual cello sections
- Thread starter Vik
- Start date
Garry
Senior Member
I can't find the thread, can you point me to it? I'd like to extend the exposition of my ignorance, and in prioritising them, show I clearly know nothing about sample libraries!
The thing is, I'll bet I'm not alone in my blissful naivity (as you've proven with this thread), and if some $50 bucks library comes out top, then I have truly suckered for marketing in a way I did not think I was so vulnerable to (none of us do - we all think we're above average, but statistically, half of us are wrong!). As a scientist, I love finding out when I'm wrong: you learn so much more than when you are right!
OP
OP
Vik
Vi-k
That other thread is here:
https://vi-control.net/community/threads/12-virtual-violin-sections.67443/
(edit: new title)
https://vi-control.net/community/threads/12-virtual-violin-sections.67443/
(edit: new title)
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fretti
Senior Member
I hope that CSS "wins" for me so I have neither regrets for buying CSS nor for not buying something else...luckily other than HZS and SCS I don't own any of the "big" String libraries (at least in terms of money) so good chance I either want them even more or I can finally say "alright seems like nothing for me this time"
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OP
OP
Vik
Vi-k
I had posted that info earlier, but I just removed it. Have fun.
Garry
Senior Member
I just posted my reply in the other thread, but since as you point out, this one has received more attention, I've copied it here, to keep the discussion in 1 thread:
------
RATINGS BELOW FOR 12 VIOLINS here (not the cellos in this thread)
Ok, so here's my order of preference below. But what was most striking to me was not that one was clearly better, but just how similarl they all were, to the extent that for some of them, any prioritising was largely arbitrary. In fact, if you were to randomize these, and have me do it again, I have no doubt whatsoever that my choices would be entirely inconsistent, demonstrating that the true, discernible differences between the libraries are even less than is currently apparent!
For some, there was more/less panning, reverb and/or portamento, and so I tried to focus on the timbre, and avoid listening to the other aspects, since this could be achieved, to taste, with all of them if required. I am truly stunned by how indistinguishable these libraries are. When we find out which was which, compare the cheapest and the most expensive, and ask yourself whether the price difference is justified!
Honestly, this is so revealing, and I don't know why we as a community don't do it more. It's the opposite of the 'expert' wine tasters, when they can't tell a bottle of plonk from an '82 Margaux! They WANT to maintain that pretence of difference, and their expertise in discerning it, that is missed by the masses, to justify their existence. But, as VI customers, not brand followers, we should want to disabuse ourselves of expectation and bias, and identify the most cost-effective, stripped of brand loyalty and market dressing.
Thank you Vik for doing this (and also your other thread on the cellos) - I hope more of us on this forum will see the value of these blind comparisons, and similarly try to pick out their favourites. I'm sure I'll be shocked to see how far off my preferences line up with how much I would have had to pay for these libraries, and that's a huge service to the community.
Of course, this is NOT an exact test: there are clearly shortfalls in how these are prepared for comparative purposes, and if we truly wanted to do a proper comparison, much more preparation would be needed. Furthermore, comparing libraries is more than just about comparing one articulation, and showing how similar they are, but also involves showing the differences: where one library can do things the others can't. So, of course, this comparison isn't the entire story, and I'm sure no one would pretend it to be so. But that doesn't detract from the value of the exercise, and I'm really grateful to you for it.
Now, make me wait, and tease me with the answer, but for now, here's my pathetic attempt at prioritisation:
8
6
7
4
9
12
11
3
10
5
1
2
------
RATINGS BELOW FOR 12 VIOLINS here (not the cellos in this thread)
Ok, so here's my order of preference below. But what was most striking to me was not that one was clearly better, but just how similarl they all were, to the extent that for some of them, any prioritising was largely arbitrary. In fact, if you were to randomize these, and have me do it again, I have no doubt whatsoever that my choices would be entirely inconsistent, demonstrating that the true, discernible differences between the libraries are even less than is currently apparent!
For some, there was more/less panning, reverb and/or portamento, and so I tried to focus on the timbre, and avoid listening to the other aspects, since this could be achieved, to taste, with all of them if required. I am truly stunned by how indistinguishable these libraries are. When we find out which was which, compare the cheapest and the most expensive, and ask yourself whether the price difference is justified!
Honestly, this is so revealing, and I don't know why we as a community don't do it more. It's the opposite of the 'expert' wine tasters, when they can't tell a bottle of plonk from an '82 Margaux! They WANT to maintain that pretence of difference, and their expertise in discerning it, that is missed by the masses, to justify their existence. But, as VI customers, not brand followers, we should want to disabuse ourselves of expectation and bias, and identify the most cost-effective, stripped of brand loyalty and market dressing.
Thank you Vik for doing this (and also your other thread on the cellos) - I hope more of us on this forum will see the value of these blind comparisons, and similarly try to pick out their favourites. I'm sure I'll be shocked to see how far off my preferences line up with how much I would have had to pay for these libraries, and that's a huge service to the community.
Of course, this is NOT an exact test: there are clearly shortfalls in how these are prepared for comparative purposes, and if we truly wanted to do a proper comparison, much more preparation would be needed. Furthermore, comparing libraries is more than just about comparing one articulation, and showing how similar they are, but also involves showing the differences: where one library can do things the others can't. So, of course, this comparison isn't the entire story, and I'm sure no one would pretend it to be so. But that doesn't detract from the value of the exercise, and I'm really grateful to you for it.
Now, make me wait, and tease me with the answer, but for now, here's my pathetic attempt at prioritisation:
8
6
7
4
9
12
11
3
10
5
1
2
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OP
OP
Vik
Vi-k
Hi Levitanus! I saw that you had posted something about SSS, Berlin Strings and CSS as comments on Soundcloud so just FYI: these three libraries are in there, but not where you posted your comments about them.
#1, for instance, is CSS. I like CSS, but it hasn't received much positive response in this thread so far - due to the first version of the CSS clip which was kind of too intense dynamically, used an unfortunate mic combination and didn't use the best sound legato preset CSS offers (the Advanced mode). But you posted your CSS comment on the Spitfire Symphonic Strings clip, the Berlin Strings comment on the Spitfire Chamber Strings clip and the SSS comment on the Berlin Strings clip.
So, here's the list:
1) Cinematic Studio Strings (6 cellos)
2) Not participating in this legato comparison anymore, due to reasons explained earlier
3) Performance Samples Con Moto (6 cellos)
4) Spitfire Chamber Strings (3 cellos)
5) Spitfire Symphonic Strings (10 cellos)
6) Orchestral Tools Berlin Strings (5 cellos)
#1, for instance, is CSS. I like CSS, but it hasn't received much positive response in this thread so far - due to the first version of the CSS clip which was kind of too intense dynamically, used an unfortunate mic combination and didn't use the best sound legato preset CSS offers (the Advanced mode). But you posted your CSS comment on the Spitfire Symphonic Strings clip, the Berlin Strings comment on the Spitfire Chamber Strings clip and the SSS comment on the Berlin Strings clip.
So, here's the list:
1) Cinematic Studio Strings (6 cellos)
2) Not participating in this legato comparison anymore, due to reasons explained earlier
3) Performance Samples Con Moto (6 cellos)
4) Spitfire Chamber Strings (3 cellos)
5) Spitfire Symphonic Strings (10 cellos)
6) Orchestral Tools Berlin Strings (5 cellos)
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Garry
Senior Member
Fascinating! Although, also, a little disconcerting, since the my preference, which was 4, was SCS, and is the library I’ve been wanting to buy for some time! Now my damn subconscious will use this against me, and come Black Friday, my inhibition stands no chance, and will be immediately overruled! I will almost certainly forget that for most of them it was pretty difficult to choose between, and my biased memory will recall only that there was a clear winner! Oh, I’m doomed!
hopefully with the revived version I will get a good discount
Emmanuel Rousseau
Senior Member
So 1 was Cinematic Studio Strings and 4 was Spitfire Chamber Strings ! What a twist, I didn't like them at all :/
OP
OP
Vik
Vi-k
I voted for CSS, Con Moto, SCS and Berlin Strings.
Regarding the specific clips posted here:
Con Moto sounds real and musical, but I miss fingered legato (listen to the three last notes in this example to understand why). Like Soaring Strings and some other libraries, it 'does only one thing', so (also price wise), I guess one has to think of it as an 'additional library'. Looking forward to hear the other Con Moto string instruments.
Spitfire Chamber Strings was a positive surprise for me after Mural, and has become of of my favourites. Too bad with the noisy sample in the end in this clip, but there seem to be accidents in all libraries. It's interesting that a cello section of only three players sounds good to so many of us - and it also makes me think that Hans Zimmer Strings (a library I'd like to check out for it's special articulations and massiveness) was a brave move with it's 60+20+20+20+ 20 cellos. Kudos to SF for that!
I made SSS sound less distant in the newest version, but in real life, it would of course have been better with fewer portamento transition - I plan to make a less swooshy and final version with the Soundcloud file with a more real life like amount of legato/portamento.
Berlin is also still one of my fav. libraries. IIRR, I also recorded the initial sequence in real time with BS, which is the library I know the best. And in all fairness, this will probably - even without trying - result in clips which suits the Berlin Strings sound and coding best.
So - who's making a viola section thread?
Regarding the specific clips posted here:
Con Moto sounds real and musical, but I miss fingered legato (listen to the three last notes in this example to understand why). Like Soaring Strings and some other libraries, it 'does only one thing', so (also price wise), I guess one has to think of it as an 'additional library'. Looking forward to hear the other Con Moto string instruments.
Spitfire Chamber Strings was a positive surprise for me after Mural, and has become of of my favourites. Too bad with the noisy sample in the end in this clip, but there seem to be accidents in all libraries. It's interesting that a cello section of only three players sounds good to so many of us - and it also makes me think that Hans Zimmer Strings (a library I'd like to check out for it's special articulations and massiveness) was a brave move with it's 60+20+20+20+ 20 cellos. Kudos to SF for that!
I made SSS sound less distant in the newest version, but in real life, it would of course have been better with fewer portamento transition - I plan to make a less swooshy and final version with the Soundcloud file with a more real life like amount of legato/portamento.
Berlin is also still one of my fav. libraries. IIRR, I also recorded the initial sequence in real time with BS, which is the library I know the best. And in all fairness, this will probably - even without trying - result in clips which suits the Berlin Strings sound and coding best.
So - who's making a viola section thread?
Levitanus
Senior Member
I just can not tell anything.... The point is, i found the thread just after unpacking con moto cellos, and just in the break in arrangement with css+bst. And bst was very intimate on the backgroung of css, which i used just... Just because they vere loaded yet in old project.
Also i found that bst are much more intimate, than sss, while the second, honestly, has more warm sound. I can only guess, that levels are very different from my setup, or expression on libraries is not the same...
My bad, absolutely forgotten of scs. Cellos are awesome there. But still can not play anything, like bst)
Also i found that bst are much more intimate, than sss, while the second, honestly, has more warm sound. I can only guess, that levels are very different from my setup, or expression on libraries is not the same...
My bad, absolutely forgotten of scs. Cellos are awesome there. But still can not play anything, like bst)
OP
OP
Vik
Vi-k
