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8Dio Requiem Pro Update? (+ suggestions)

Zhao Shen

StormSound
A while back when 8Dio was about to reveal pricing for Lacrimosa, they mentioned its intro price would cost less than Requiem. That got me thinking... IMO, for the current state of sampling technology, Requiem is a bit too far behind to merit a $569 price tag. Though 8Dio seems to be doing a new choir line starting with Studio Sopranos, Requiem is their flagship "vanilla" choir at the moment, and it's showing its age a bit.

That being said, have they mentioned any plans for updates? I'm not expecting massive overhauls with completely new samples; even some simple quality-of-life changes would go a long way to boost Requiem's usability and value. Here are the two things I would most like to see from a Requiem Pro update:

1) Re-balancing staccato dynamics. Right now certain syllables are very noticeably louder than others when played at the same dynamic, which is just extra note programming work for composers. Other patches, like Women Vowel Sustain, also have issues with comparative dynamics in different note ranges (higher notes tend to be louder). Though this tendency is somewhat natural, it'd be great to even it out so that the composer gets more control over the sound.

2) Adjusting staccato sample offset. Again, this is something that is very very very extremely noticeable in the staccato patch, but could also apply to things like marcatos. Most staccato syllables do not trigger on the beat. This is understandable, due to the consonant sounds at the beginning of the syllables. However, the syllables also do not trigger in time with each other. This is because certain consonants take longer to say than others, which is also understandable. However, it'd be an absolutely LIFESAVER if an update would adjust the sample offsets of the syllables so that they are all as late as the syllable with the longest attack/consonant. This would make everything line up, and though everything would be late, everything would be late TOGETHER, and that is easily remedied by counter-offsetting within your DAW.

8Dio isn't very well known for updating existing content, but I think these two changes would go a long way for enhancing Requiem's usability, and they don't require any new recording sessions. That's just me though. Let me know what you guys think, and feel free to post suggestions of your own!
 

playz123

Senior Member
I'm guessing the Requiem update they released last year will be the last for that library, so if one feels the current version is outdated or not sufficient, it may be best to look at other products. I, for one, don't use it very much anymore, and am drawn more towards other choir libraries.
 

MarcusD

Active Member
I agree, considering what else is on the market they either need to update the library significantly or drop the price. The former I highly doubt! They're more likely to release the new Libraries then drop the price of Requiem. Maybe we'll get a special discount deal on the new libs for owning Requiem too? That would be nice!
 

CHIgirl

custom audio | perfect pancakes
I still reach for Requiem before the others. I prefer how "human" and unpolished it is. But I agree, feels more like a $350-ish library now.
 

Wunderhorn

Active Member
I think that it is time for a whole new round of choir libraries. IMHO the current offerings are pityful. I have Requiem and it is fun to play around with it, but it has not matured beyond being a toy or adding some Carmina Burana shouts to a trailer track.
Slow, long legato phrases and ppp layers are missing in most offerings.
While today's sonic palettes to mock up orchestral sounds are quite impressive, this cannot be said about choir libraries.

Go listen to a good choir recording - for example Charles Bruffy and the Kansas City Chorale performing Grechaninov or Rachmaninov or any of their recordings, or for something more contemporary try Voces8 - Lux. Now try to mock up something like that (even without trying to match syllables) and you will will want to throw your libraries down the cliff and yourself too... ;)

I'd say "Back to the drawing board!"
 
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Zhao Shen

Zhao Shen

StormSound
I think that it is time for a whole new round of choir libraries. IMHO the current offerings are pityful.
I agree wholeheartedly. Though choral sampling is not as straightforward as sampling for many other instruments, it is a big category of sounds that is not being done justice.

Let's say I'm a composer who's purchasing his first orchestral string library. I look around and find information on countless offerings: Adagietto, Berlin Strings, Cinematic Strings 2, LA Scoring Strings, CineStrings, Mural, Hollywood Strings, and many many others of varying section size, comprehensiveness, and philosophy.

Now let's say I'm a composer who's looking for choir libraries. Soundiron Olympus is the name I hear getting thrown around most often, maybe 8Dio Lacrimosa and some Virharmonic products, or Storm Choir 2. Otherwise, there are few options, many of which are way out-of-date.

Personally, I'm excited for the possibility of new offerings from 8Dio (they seem to be on a roll lately, and their Studio Sopranos seem to be the beginning of what could be an amazing series... Plus, full faith in Colin) and Hollywood Choirs (Symphonic Orchestra -> Symphonic Choirs, Hollywood Orchestra -> ???). Otherwise, few developers seem to be both able and interested in doing choirs currently :(
 

DHousden

Member
I agree wholeheartedly. Though choral sampling is not as straightforward as sampling for many other instruments, it is a big category of sounds that is not being done justice.

Let's say I'm a composer who's purchasing his first orchestral string library. I look around and find information on countless offerings: Adagietto, Berlin Strings, Cinematic Strings 2, LA Scoring Strings, CineStrings, Mural, Hollywood Strings, and many many others of varying section size, comprehensiveness, and philosophy.

Now let's say I'm a composer who's looking for choir libraries. Soundiron Olympus is the name I hear getting thrown around most often, maybe 8Dio Lacrimosa and some Virharmonic products, or Storm Choir 2. Otherwise, there are few options, many of which are way out-of-date.

Personally, I'm excited for the possibility of new offerings from 8Dio (they seem to be on a roll lately, and their Studio Sopranos seem to be the beginning of what could be an amazing series... Plus, full faith in Colin) and Hollywood Choirs (Symphonic Orchestra -> Symphonic Choirs, Hollywood Orchestra -> ???). Otherwise, few developers seem to be both able and interested in doing choirs currently :(
Couldn't agree more. I confess I haven't tried Lacrimosa yet, so that could well be the solution I've been seeking. But I've used Olympus choir, Requiem, Liberis and Storm Choir, and whilst all are nice libraries with varying strengths, none of those stand up particularly well in isolation on a track. Buried in a mix adding colour they can sound fantastic, (in particular the marcato phrases in requiem cut through nicely and offer a human touch, but as you highlighted in your original post, the programming just isn't there) but frankly they all have inherent weakness which require pretty intensive work in various areas to bring up to standard. This is time I'd much rather spend focusing on the notes, so if anyone would like to build a 'works out of the box' choral solution, I'd gladly throw money at it!

Edit: Thinking about it, East West are surely due a new choir library at some point? Symphonic Choirs/Voices of Apocalypse have been out for as long as I can remember now
 

R.Cato

Senior Member
I think we still have to remember ourselves here what we are actually talking about. I mean sampling the human voice and maintaining its natural character is already a feature many choir libraries out there fail to deliver and now combine that with the request of unlimited tweaking options and "clever" scripts....sorry ain't gonna happen. Fooling some untrained listeners (or lets say non musicians) with string samples they have no clue about how good they sound compared to the real deal, because they haven't listened to many string recordings is one thing, but doing that with samples of the human voice is just a different beast, because the voice is the most well known instrument a decent human being knows how it has to sound like.

For every control you give the composer to tweak the sampled performance not only the required skill to create a good mockup increases, but also you have to make some kind of compromise regarding sound quality of the sample. The VSL stuff has the most tweaking options available, but at the same time you have to use quite a lot of them to get a good sounding performance and even when you do that it still sounds more lifeless compared to many more ambient and natural sample recordings. Of course it still has its benefits, that's why still many composers like their approach.

It is possible to create some great sounding choral lines with the current tools we have, if you have the required knowledge, skills and of course a well recorded choir library. Still one of the most natural sounding choir mockups I have heard to date is "Ring of Fire" by Aleksandar Dimitrijevic. And guess what even in "isolation" it still holds up pretty well.

 

DHousden

Member
Absolutely, as with all sample libraries there's no replacement for the real thing. And I definitely take your point about the human voice. That being said, I don't think it's beyond the realm of possibility to ask for a choir library with the same sort of feature set we've come to expect from the top instrumental libraries (dynamic phrasing, true legato etc), to help cut down on programming time and allow us to remain focused on the actual act of composing, as much as possible.

As far as I'm aware, this doesn't currently exist but if it does then sign me up!
 

Maestro77

Joker/Fool
It's just SOO expensive to record a choir library. Not only are there more musicians to pay but you also have to record more than one sound per note, per articulation (multiple vowels, phrases, etc). If you include legato for each vowel it gets even more ridiculous. Then if you want to divide into SATB that's 4x the session time & production costs. That's why choir libraries are generally quite a bit more expensive than standard orchestral instruments.
 

jamwerks

Senior Member
A lot points in this thread. Personally I'm more and more interested in the way 8dio is currently sampling. The Studio sopranos sound great. Plan to pick it up now on sale. And hoping for the other 3 sections in the same formate.

By not cross-fading transitions into sustains, everything sounds so much more real to my ears.
 
OP
Zhao Shen

Zhao Shen

StormSound
A lot points in this thread. Personally I'm more and more interested in the way 8dio is currently sampling. The Studio sopranos sound great. Plan to pick it up now on sale. And hoping for the other 3 sections in the same formate.

By not cross-fading transitions into sustains, everything sounds so much more real to my ears.
Definitely! 8Dio's been on somewhat of a roll with making great libraries lately. Let's hope they keep it going with Century Brass :)
 
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