8dio is actually having a sale!

[sphore]

From what I’ve seen/heard of them I kind of regret buying what I have until now. What is the logic of suddenly switching from $98 to $148 ... show some consistency. Their attitude is “we do what we like, you can take it or leave it..people will buy our shit regardless”.

So why did they show some content in the first place? And even if they did this by accident, why was the order of offers not clear before starting the sale?
It's like allowing your child to peek at the christmas presents days ahead. And it sees the new gaming console and his favorite game. And from then on it dreams about the gay christmas time it will have with this console and this game and its beloved family. Greatest parents in the world... And then christmas arrives and he gets some stupid books and stuff for school. And the gaming console turns out to be a present for the family of some distant uncle. And his son doesn't even like this stupid game anyways and sells it on ebay the next day. Or trades it in for crack. And calls you and your parents some dumbasses for buying this shit in the first place...

Yeah, some consistency please, from now on...

 

[Snarf]

It's mainly the ordet that is changed though? Not sure if your analogy is really apt here.

I agree though that 8dio's marketing strategy is all over the place and I can see how that's off-putting.

Furthermore, it seems like their sales are mostly filled with the B-grade stuff with some top notch stuff sprinkled here and there.

 

[sphore]

It's mainly the ordet that is changed though? Not sure if your analogy is really apt here.

I agree though that 8dio's marketing strategy is all over the place and I can see how that's off-putting.

Furthermore, it seems like their sales are mostly filled with the B-grade stuff with some top notch stuff sprinkled here and there.

Maybe I got a little bit carried away. But it's not just the order. It's also not clear what is the deal and what are the potential gifts. And the sale goes this way: Take the offer of the day (or something else from the store) PLUS the daily gift. So making it see-through means, you can plan ahead and safe your money for some potential product combination. And skipping other limited time offers from the competition in the meantime maybe? The psychology behind Black Friday sales and different sales is that the seller tries to trick you into buying more than you originally wanted, because your emotional side takes over.
Is this so foreign to so many customers nowadays? I'm geting a little curious now...

But for me, it turned out, that I have spend less up until today on 8Dio stuff, then I originally planned. But I didn't spend less in this time period. I spend it on stuff from the competition instead.

 

[Mikro93]

From what I’ve seen/heard of them I kind of regret buying what I have until now.

I've seen that kind of vibe before. It sounds a bit like you (not you you, but some people) bought a product from a company for the brand rather than the product in itself. Aren't we supposed to make music with that stuff? The product you bought is still the same, even though you don't agree with the company's policy.

Do you maybe feel like you allowed them to do stuff you don't agree with, by giving them money in the past? Is it something that you feel differently when you make music for a living? I'm genuinely curious I imagine I would be pissed off if I bought something from a company, then realized they used my money to, I don't know, kill endangered species or whatever. Is it something like that?

 

[AndyP]

I don't understand the trouble. Everybody can decide for himself if he wants to buy at the daily offered price or not.
Nobody forces one to buy. And other manufacturers also have changing prices.
I think it's because 8Dio has sales all year round and the same product costs sometimes more and sometimes less.
But they can do that as they like! Those who know 8 Dio press the button at the right moment, not because it is Xmas sale.

 

[Buz]

It might be their way to deal with product devaluation. If you know you can reliably get a crazy deal with weeks of notice then going forward people value those items less. Whereas if you can maybe grab a deal on the day depending on which way the wind blows, then good for you.

As it happens I didn't buy anything and I'm a huge fan. Not intentional, just the way it shook out.

 

[shponglefan]

Given the randomness of 8dio's sales, I feel like we need a way to track their products throughout the year, so we can see when and how much they go on sale at different times.

I might just start saving every 8dio promo email just so I can search them at later dates.

 

[Tvliesin]

Seems like everyone has their favorite, and I've had Dominus at the top of my list to purchase, but The Epic bundle from 8DIO got there first with their very nice sale. Can't wait to play :D

Edited Dominus

I got dominus last week. While sounding absolutely amazing and the ease of articulation and timing implementation is wonderful, it’s very quiet. I have to put a limiter (I use prol2) and boost it by A LOT. Which is fine, but it’s just quiet.

 

[Kony]

I got dominus last week. While sounding absolutely amazing and the ease of articulation and timing implementation is wonderful, it’s very quiet. I have to put a limiter (I use prol2) and boost it by A LOT. Which is fine, but it’s just quiet.

Have you tried boosting the pre-gain on the channel?

 

[Mikro93]

All Claire for $148. Never seen the bundle that cheap.

I seem to recall it was the best woodwinds collection available a few years ago. I am now concerned about phasing between the dynamic layers. Anyone to comment on that?

 

[sphore]

All Claire for $148. Never seen the bundle that cheap.

I seem to recall it was the best woodwinds collection available a few years ago. I am now concerned about phasing between the dynamic layers. Anyone to comment on that?

Also interested in where they find their place in an orchestral template.

The consensus in this forum on THE current woodwind (ensemble) library seems to be BWW (and sometimes alternatives from Spitfire, VSL or potentially CSW).

Then you get some first seat Woodwinds to accompany your ensemble (again BWW, Spitfire, VSL...)

And only after those bases are covered, you would typically get a dedicated woodwind solo instrument library?

Of course if one of those instruments plays an important role in your music, this might be different. But on the other hand, there is not much love for woodwinds in hybrid trailer music nowadays.

So from an orchestral perspective, are these Claire Woodwinds only for very special occasions and just the icing on the cake? Or are they a relevant step to bridge the gap from a basic woodwind library (as part of something like Inspire, Palette, Amadeus, BBCSO, EWHO or Nucleus) to the additional Grand that would be needed for BWW + Expansions (& Friends)?

 

[ism]

So from an orchestral perspective, are these Claire Woodwinds only for very special occasions and just the icing on the cake?

That’s a good way to put it. Also see my extended kayaking metaphor above.


It can be very lovely, lyrical, icing though.

 

[Sarah Mancuso]

I own the Claire Flute, and it’s wonderful for expressive lyrical playing. It’s not going to fit into an ensemble, but it’s not aiming for that at all.

 

[Mikro93]

Thank you all for your replies!

I've been drooling over this library for quite some time now. I'm gonna listen to the demos again, with a critical ear.

I own VSL SE Woodwinds, Strezov Two Flutes and Two Bassoons (which I really like and don't provide with enough love), and Claire Piccolo. Also, British Drama Toolkit. And SK Ostinato Woodwinds, which I never use.

I don't write trailer music, and I don't often comply with the whole seated orchestra. Sometimes, I'll just need a pretty flute for an exposed part in an intimate piece, or an alto flute to double a tin whistle with a lower octave, and whatnot.

 

[schrodinger1612]

So rather than fit into a full orchestral template, these are designed to be played in passages where the woods are the main focus, right? Or in mixes that do not conform to the standard placement of individual sections. I guess one possibility could be to break up segments of an entire orchestral score; i.e, to provide a chance for the individual solo players to shine and do some fancy shit at the foreground of the mix before everything else comes in full force, with the solo woods punctuating certain parts. Would they seem out of place in this context?

 

[jtnyc]

They are selling products at extreme price reductions and adding a free gift of significant value and people are upset. Go figure -

Why does every minimum spend have to be $98? Is that a rule? Did 8Dio commit to that at the start of the sale? It would depend on the the original value of the item on sale and value of the free gift, no? Makes sense to me that it would fluctuate. It’s like some people expect everything to benefit them and their personal preferences to the letter, otherwise it’s somehow unfair.

It’s supposed to fun. Check in every day or 2 and see what’s on offer. If it appeals to you, buy it. If it doesn’t, don’t. It’s a changing sale with different products of different values every day. I mean, all Claire for $148 with the Vintage Keyboard collection for free? That is an INCREDIBLE value! Are people actually upset and think that should $98 just because some of the other sales were $98?

I just don’t get it...

 

[ism]

So rather than fit into a full orchestral template, these are designed to be played in passages where the woods are the main focus, right? Or in mixes that do not conform to the standard placement of individual sections. I guess one possibility could be to break up segments of an entire orchestral score; i.e, to provide a chance for the individual solo players to shine and do some fancy shit at the foreground of the mix before everything else comes in full force, with the solo woods punctuating certain parts. Would they seem out of place in this context?

It‘s a little be more specific that that. what they’re best at is hyper lyrical soloists. But the way you get this is using the dynamic arcs - so it’s not virtuosic lyrical in the same at as BWW exp b. you have to find lines will work with the recorded dynamic arcs. You simply can’t work against the arcs.

Here’s my attempt to capture this through kayaking metaphor:

One way to think about the limitations of the Claire instruments is to imagine composing as searching for a melody (that the instrument can play well) in the same way a kayaker might look to navigate rapids full of wandering rocks.

The 8dioboe is the most extreme example. It's a marvel of the economy of sampling. The demos show that there are gorgeous lyrical passages to be found that seem to flow effortlessly through the rapids.

But when you start looking for melodies yourself, you start hitting rocks. Lots of rocks. Its takes great skill and patience to find the ways a melody can flow expressively through these rapids without catastrophically hitting rock after rock.

This doesn't mean that there aren't great passages to be found. Just that you need to be prepared to develop your kayaking skills in order to find them.


The 8dioboe does have the feel that its a prototype for the Claire. The Claire instruments - and they do seem to get better as the series progresses - have fewer rocks than the 8dioboe on the whole, and more melodic passages through the rapids.


So expect a certain despondency when you start looking for melodic passages. But also, don't give up immediately. Learn to kayak, to go with the flows of the dynamic arcs of the instruments and to swerve around the horrendous artifacts that you will strike if you don't go with where the samples are designed to flow.

Another way to put this is that if you want to write lyrical solo lines on paper and then mock them up - go with Berlin Exp B. If you’re up for learning to play the Claire winds for what they are, and learning how to craft lines able to take advantage of their arcs, the Claire is not bad value at $148.

That said, as much as I like the Claire winds, if I had to do it again I would have saved up all the money I spent on the Claire instruments piecemeal and held out for BWW.

Also - Spitfire Symphonic winds (one of my favourites libraries ever) is both superb at bread and butter ensemble level, and goes remarkably far into lyrical space. If I can get away with a SWW instrument for a lyrical passage, I will. It’s only occasionally that I feel the need to reach for the Claire.

 

[ism]

One more observation on the Claire.

By their nature is that the real value in their design is the dynamic arcs in exposed solo lines. And it’s not just that they’re not recorded or performed or miced in a way that suits ensemble playing. It’s that, unless they’re up front and/or highly exposed, you just can hear the lyrical nuances of the arcs. At which point you’re almost invariably better using something designed to be heard in the context of the ensemble.

 

[sphore]

They are selling products at extreme price reductions and adding a free gift of significant value and people are upset. Go figure -

Why does every minimum spend have to be $98? Is that a rule? Did 8Dio commit to that at the start of the sale? It would depend on the the original value of the item on sale and value of the free gift, no? Makes sense to me that it would fluctuate. It’s like some people expect everything to benefit them and their personal preferences to the letter, otherwise it’s somehow unfair.

It’s supposed to fun. Check in every day or 2 and see what’s on offer. If it appeals to you, buy it. If it doesn’t, don’t. It’s a changing sale with different products of different values every day. I mean, all Claire for $148 with the Vintage Keyboard collection for free? That is an INCREDIBLE value! Are people actually upset and think that should $98 just because some of the other sales were $98?

I just don’t get it...

You obviously haven't been a used cars sales man in an earlier life. I get it, we are ripping of the company as customers. We are greedy, never can get enough. And the family of the used cars sales person stays hungry over christmas. But he still gives us the car at an incredible discount. It is basically a steal. How dare we ripping him off? But he still gives it to us nevertheless. And a pen as a gift on top. This pen alone is worth more than the car itself. But we get it as a gift as well...

People! Marketing! Ever heard of it? Anyone here, that stayed within budget on BF?

This see-through calender and this switching around is on purpose. Look at their marketing emails. Completely professional and flawless. The website completely flawless. But they don't get the order of the deals straight? Come on... I don't believe this. This is part of the marketing strategy to increase profit and to raise attention. And it seems that this works on most of the customers.

BF gets crazier every year. And I guess marketing strategies get crazier every year as well to stay competitive. Can't wait for 2020 craziness.

If people get broke over BF, because they get tricked into buying all sorts of no-brainer deals with all those great "free" gifts (that they actually never really use), I don't think they can exchange their free gifts against some meal afterwards.

If I really will use Anthology Strings and Century Brass, then I have profited so far. Else I have been tricked into buying something, that I never thought about before. So I may very well be profiting greatly on this sale. Are the products worth far more than I already spent? They certainly are. Are they worth that much to me in the long run? That is still debatable.

Do I need the Claire Woodwind instruments today? Certainly not! Do I need them in a few weeks? Maybe! Will there be a sale then, where I can get it at an affordable price? Most certainly not. Am I tempted now to buy something that I may never need? Hell yeah!

Do I really have to continue? A lot of people will get the 8Dio Vintage Keyboard Collection. What hell of a no-brainer deal. Worth far more and every penny. Even at full price. And they already have the Arturia V Collection. And a lot of different VSTs that they didn't have the time to look at. NI Komplete Bundle or Kontakt Factory Library anyone?

It’s supposed to fun. Check in every day or 2 and see what’s on offer. If it appeals to you, buy it. If it doesn’t, don’t.

I sincerely hope you're not doing your BF shopping this way. You may easily spend twice as much in the end as initially intended.

 

[sphore]

It‘s a little be more specific that that. what they’re best at is hyper lyrical soloists. But the way you get this is using the dynamic arcs - so it’s not virtuosic lyrical in the same at as BWW exp b. you have to find lines will work with the recorded dynamic arcs. You simply can’t work against the arcs.

Here’s my attempt to capture this through kayaking metaphor:






Another way to put this is that if you want to write lyrical solo lines on paper and then mock them up - go with Berlin Exp B. If you’re up for learning to play the Claire winds for what they are, and learning how to craft lines able to take advantage of their arcs, the Claire is not bad value at $148.

That said, as much as I like the Claire winds, if I had to do it again I would have saved up all the money I spent on the Claire instruments piecemeal and held out for BWW.

Also - Spitfire Symphonic winds (one of my favourites libraries ever) is both superb at bread and butter ensemble level, and goes remarkably far into lyrical space. If I can get away with a SWW instrument for a lyrical passage, I will. It’s only occasionally that I feel the need to reach for the Claire.

Great and very helpful reply again. Thank you!

So I guess that means for me, that I should either save up for BWW. Or to wait for CSW or Century Woodwinds to be released. CSW may already satisfy all of my needs for half the price of BWW.

If 8Dio should update the Claire instruments in the future, this would still be a deal to consider. But it unfortunately doesn't look like it at the moment.