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Zoot_Rollo

Zoot_Rollo

Throbbing Member
Precedence 1.5 and Breeze 2.5 are coming in August (free of charge)!... I own both plugins, but I still have to dive into Precedence... The two are supposed to interact in a major way.
thanks for the reminder.

just grabbed Precedence as well.

gorgeous UIs.
 

zolhof

Active Member
Awesome news! I've been patiently waiting for the update and how cool is it that we get to try it now? Thanks for the heads-up, Zoot.
 

Robo Rivard

Senior Member
Breeze 2 is a no brainer. So far I've only used Precedence within Ozone 8, to test out WAV sound effects... It works in spades!... You can take any audio file and put it where you want in the x/y/z plane.
 

zolhof

Active Member
The multi-instance editing is excellent. You hit the global broadcast button on each instance and bam, they are all linked - with the ability to create groups and sub-mixes. I'm so glad the madness of having to manually set the distance value for each PB combo is finally over. Not to mention that you can now edit every single parameter from whatever instance you have opened, and all other instances will follow. One GUI to rule them all!

Well done, @Andrew Souter, you promised and over-delivered. Can't believe this is a free update :emoji_trophy:
 

lucor

Senior Member
Anyone else unable to paste their serial number into the Precedence 1.5 beta plugin? I'm clicking on "click here to paste serial from clipboard", but nothing happens.
 

lucor

Senior Member
BTW I also had to completely reinstall both Breeze and Precedence, because just using the update function in the installer somehow corrupted both plugins and I couldn't load them anymore. So be careful with your custom presets before installing the beta.
 

Andrew Souter

Active Member
gorgeous UIs.
Thanks! Quick GUI notes:
  1. There are over 30 different GUI sizes for P and B!
  2. Using Multi-Instnace Editing and Selectiion sync means you really don't need more than one GUI editor open, so you can use a larger GUI size and get a much nicer UI experience than with using lots of tiny GUIs. 1440*1440 in Precedence is great on a 4K display for exmaple.
  3. There are over 300 color presets, and you can browse them from the MAIN page of the GUI by clicking on the Nav bar C/P/* (color/preset/instance) button.
  4. There is a new font scaling adjustment slider on the INFO page. At larger sizes I like setting this to close to the min value. looks very equloquent and modern IMHO.
 

Andrew Souter

Active Member
Well done, @Andrew Souter, you promised and over-delivered.
Thanks for your kind words. That's exactly what we aimed for! If something takes a little extra time, you can be sure there is a very good reason for it. The Precedence Link topic was solved and working earlier in the year, but the Multi-Instnace editing and Global Broadcast features are the master-strokes that make the whole system really valuable and really enhance the workflow.

If we advocate that you use 50, 100, 200, or more instances of these these plugins, there needs to be a way to manage this sort of complexity easily so it doesn't interfere with musical creativity and distract you from more important things like composing. That's what we hope we have just achieved.

The sound-quality is amazing as always, but now that you guys can hear automatic Precedence Link you will be able to see easily how well we achieve distance/depth placement when using the Precedence/Breeze combination. I know months ago people where wondering why by itself Precedence doesn't give a huge sense of distance and that is explained in the manual, but in short: extreme gain and high frequency loss are the major contributions to sense of distance in a free-standing environment where there is no reflected energy -- like in the middle of the sky. But IMHO that's not usually very useful in music mixing, so these are subtle in P by default. The more important distance/depth cues come from the linked reverb engine! And now you can hear it in action! And we have also added an X-Range mode and specific control over gain and high freq loss in P so that you can try more extreme ranges if desired, as well as completely disabling one or both -- which might be useful in electronic music mixing that is less concerned with "natural".

Note that the ENTIRE Breeze algorithm updates in response to changes to position in P. If it were convolution, this would effectively mean there is an entirely different impulse response from the reverb engine for every single (infinite) possible position within Precedence. We are NOT simply adjusting wet/dry level, and pre-delay. The ENTIRE alg changes and updates. Something like an algorithmic "Multiple Impulse Response" system!

I think you will find we addressed the requests for enhanced mono compatibility as well. (btw, there were a few minor-ish bugs in the beta mode (the only mode in 1.0) also, that were fixed -- so even the Beta mode should be better behaved regarding phase response -- and really I think you can safely consider it even while maintaining extreme-mono compatibility concerns. You should really just check the final master output sound collapsed to mono more so than looking at a phase meter direct out of Precedence. Even the Beta mode should be more or less safe, but we offer the new Mu mode specifically to address these previous requests.)

The manual is very deep and thorough. A bit academic even for those who like details. It provides the full info on all of this:

Precedence Manual

We will make videos etc as well, for a less "academic" overview/explanation of all this stuff. That's important too.

Can't believe this is a free update :emoji_trophy:
Thanks! We always try our best to over-deliver.

We have not forgotten B2 and Aether either. Don't worry. ;) You can imagine that now that we have tricks like inter-plugin communication, Multi-Instance editing, Global Broadcast, etc. within our code base, that these technologies can be applied to all of our products and help maintain our leadership position. This is very exciting stuff for our platform/brand.

I'll spend a lot time here in the next 4-6 weeks or so gathering feedback so we are sure these systems are rock solid. And considering any additional ideas/requests you guys come up with!
 

manuhz

Member
Very appealing concept. No idea about the tech backgrounds, but it seems similar to MIR Pro. To make use of Precedence, I need to purchase a Breeze license?
 

Andrew Souter

Active Member
Very appealing concept. No idea about the tech backgrounds, but it seems similar to MIR Pro. To make use of Precedence, I need to purchase a Breeze license?
The goals of Precedence and the "Linked Precedence + Precedence Aware Reverb Engine" are in the same universe of things like MIR, SPAT, and others yes. I have never used MIR though, and I have looked at the SPAT demo for only 30min or so once while trying to verify user's claims about its mono-compatablity. So I can't really comment too deeply about these products. (and it wouldn't be polite to do so anyway, since I didn't make them. ;) )I am sure they are very nice products also as these companies have very talented people!

Multi-Instance editing goals may also be considered to be in the same universe as things like Neutron, but we focus more specifically on creating a "Spatial Mixing Environment". I think most users will want to continue to use the DAW Mixer faders for general level balancing and level automation. Our system is focused on spatial mixing at the moment. It might pair quite nicely with Nuetron and its other functionality, actually. Not sure, so far, I have not ever tried Nuetron and I am not sure if it is popular the scoring community or not.

The X-Range Loss mode does allow extreme gain changes however, and could in theory replace the need to adjust levels in the mixer for general track levels if level automation was not needed. My guess is the music composers/mixers will want to continue to use the mixer faders for general level balancing, but we will evaluate feedback on this topic and we can certainly evolve further in this direction if it becomes a popular workflow request.

I specify "goal universe" here bc the specific approaches we use are rather unique. The goal is spatialization and "spatial mixing". The problems we are looking at are similar to the above, but our solutions are quite different.

Precedence is very useful by itself. Breeze 2 very useful by itself as well.

Combine and link them and put them into a Multi-Instance Editing system with the ability to make Breeze instance selection follow Precedence, and the ability to change parameter or entire presets for an entire group of say 100 instances of each, and you have a truly next-gen workflow and a true "Spatial Mixing Environment".

See page 30 of the manual, where I go into detail about:

Precedence Link & Multi-Instance Editing
Workflow Overview

https://2caudio.com/sitecontent/products/precedence/2CAudio_Precedence_Manual.pdf

From this section:

There are four distinct workflows possible with Precedence:

  1. Single Independent Instances, no Link
  2. Single Independent Instances, using Precedence Link
  3. Multi-Instance Editing, no Link
  4. Multi-Instance Editing, using Precedence Link
Workflows 1 and & 3 do not necessarily require Breeze 2. You could use them with any verbs on sends in the more traditional manner.

The manual explains in detail. And we will make videos.

Future versions of B2 and Aether will be "Precedence Aware" as well. "aware" means you CAN link them, but it's not forced.

Hope it helps.
 
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WindcryMusic

Lemurite
Andrew,

Now that I am planning to look more closely at Precedence again, by virtue of this AWESOME update, there's a longstanding question about it that I have had. Specifically, in one of Mike Verta's classes (the one on template balancing), he made a very convincing case for rolling off low frequencies to simulate distance as well as high frequencies. I've noticed that Precedence doesn't seem to do anything with low frequencies when the distance is increased, and I find myself wishing that it did to at least some extent. Can you share your rationale for not doing so, and/or any alternatives for getting this aspect of distance reflected with the Breeze/Precedence combo if they exist?
 

Andrew Souter

Active Member
Can you point me to the link?

There is indeed some variable LF cut going on, but it applies mostly to very low freqs. I suppose it could be exaggerated if desired.
 

averystemmler

Active Member
Note that the ENTIRE Breeze algorithm updates in response to changes to position in P.
I'm excited to try this! I've noticed that some permutations of Breeze's algorithms naturally skew slightly to the left or right (perceptually, at least), and it sounds like you've devised a way to wrangle this behavior with the Precedence Link.

Keep on fighting the good fight!
 
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