20th Century Fox Fanfare

Discussion in 'Member's Compositions' started by Nexus52085, Oct 11, 2016.

  1. Nexus52085

    Nexus52085 New Member

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    Hey guys! I haven't posted any music on this forum before, so I thought I'd start with this.

    I know it's been done before, but I wanted to try and get it to sound as close to the real thing as possible. Thanks for listening!

    Mock Up


    Reference
     
  2. Grim_Universe

    Grim_Universe Active Member

    Let me guess, you use TEDD AO and SM? It's really cool to make short pieces with those, but, well..
    SM with Altiverb will always lack of "soft" brass high-end, which is typical for real recordings. You did a very good job, but brass isn't nearly as good as real brass, and it's not your fault. I made a bunch of SM Brass library tests too with 2ะก B2, Altiverb and so on. I understood that it can be used only in some places when you need extra definition, not else. I completely recreated 2C B2 Headshot's intro as well, and now i can say that 100% wet SM brass can be used only with chords or with very slow melodies, it sounds like f*cking crap on shorts, when we expect to hear that typical brass high frequencies..
    Although, very good work.
     
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2016
  3. Mike Fox

    Mike Fox Senior Member

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    I thought this was fantastic for a mockup!
     
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  4. brunodegazio

    brunodegazio Member

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    Excellent job. You nailed the instrumental balance and general size of the sound (ensemble and room). Slightly less definition in the double tonguing as compared to the reference, but otherwise really close. Can I ask, where did you get the score?
     
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  5. OP
    OP
    Nexus52085

    Nexus52085 New Member

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    Thanks guys for the comments! Grim, nice guess, and I appreciate your rant! lol I did not, however, use altiverb and consequently, the famous Todd AO impulse. I instead used a combination of VSS 2 and Reverberate with the M7 bricasti impulses from Samplicity along with some other tricks. I am aware that the brass is not quite as good as the reference, believe me! I was trying to use only sample modeling instead of having to layer, but I may have to go back to that. One of the problems I was having was recreating the depth and height of the original room (which I believe to be Newman scoring stage) without losing too much attack. Also, length of reverb time was tricky.
    I appreciate your suggestion of using B2 as well. I actually used Aether a few years ago when I did the Universal Studios mock up. I believe it worked a bit better, but like I said, the toughest thing was recreating the room and coloring the brass appropriately. Tough to get it exactly right. Thanks for your comment!
     
  6. OP
    OP
    Nexus52085

    Nexus52085 New Member

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    Bruno, thank you so much! That room was such a challenge. Thanks for the comment on the double tonguing. I'll look into that. As for the score, I didn't use one. This was just by ear.
     
  7. desert

    desert Just here so I don't get fined

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    You just posted the same video twice ;)


    Curious on how you achieved the height
     
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  8. Saxer

    Saxer Senior Member

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    Great! Sounds even aged!
     
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  9. OP
    OP
    Nexus52085

    Nexus52085 New Member

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    Hey, thanks for the compliment! As for how I achieved the height of the room, man, I don't know. I knew how it "felt" when I was listening to the reference, but I don't feel like I quite got it there. It had something to do with 1) EQ 2) how the EQ worked with the reverb, 3) mic height in VSS 4) angle of the virtual speaker in VSS. I played around with all of those settings until I felt like it was acceptable.
     
  10. desert

    desert Just here so I don't get fined

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    Well it's extremely close to the original. I'd be interested in hearing more of your mock ups :)
     
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  11. markstyles

    markstyles Member

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    Actually I liked yours better, the high end was clearer and tighter than the orginal.. The original is a bit 'muddy' in the brass to my 'untrained' ears.
     
  12. JBacal

    JBacal Senior Member

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    Close enough for 99.9% of the people.

    -Jay
     
  13. David Story

    David Story Senior Member

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    I appreciate a sincere effort to make a good performance. The notes are there. Maybe it's the best that SM can do. But there's a hundred things missing from the mockup, and the reverb is the least of them. It's machine-like when it's intended to be extra-emotional and epic. 99% of people would feel the difference.
    If I were trying to do the Fox fanfare on the cheap I would triple track a great trumpet and trombone and sweeten with a bit of HWB.
    We're supposed to have really good hearing especially for expressiveness :)
     
  14. JPShooter

    JPShooter Member

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    I liked yours better too!
     
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  15. jjmmuir

    jjmmuir Member

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    Wow great job, especially by ear! Perhaps some tape saturation/ gentle compression on the mix buss to get more of a vintage sound? Strings seem a bit quiet as well...
     
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  16. cAudio

    cAudio Active Member

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  17. OP
    OP
    Nexus52085

    Nexus52085 New Member

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    Thanks again for the compliments guys! David, you should do it! It's such a fun challenge, and I'd love to hear your attempt. jj, yeah, thanks for the suggestions! I think a bit of tape saturation might have helped the brass as well.
     
  18. Hasen6

    Hasen6 Active Member

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    I don't see how you can complain about that. If that played at the start of a movie I wouldn't notice it wasn't real that's for sure. Really very accurate indeed. Just shows sample modeled brass is unbeatable as always. Well in the right hands at least...

    Do you find you need to EQ SM brass? Either in this piece or elsewhere.
     
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  19. OP
    OP
    Nexus52085

    Nexus52085 New Member

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    Thanks, Hasen! I think it's definitely passable (although I might be a bit biased :grin:), but my goal was to get it indistinguishable. That was incredibly hard especially given how dry the recording is. We tend to hide behind reverb more than we realize. Trying to recreate that room and how it treated the brass was a pain in the butt.

    Regarding your question, I did have to EQ for a few reasons: the roll off was a bit too much on the low end, so I had to make up for it a little bit on the trombones and tuba. Also, to get the trumpets to work with the reverb properly, I needed to tweak the highs and add a little bit of chorusing. Thanks again for listening!
     
  20. David Story

    David Story Senior Member

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    It would funny that composers have a hard time telling the difference between David Newman and the Hollywood Symphony (That's who did the current version in 97) and a computer. But it's kinda sad that listening seems better developed in the soundtrack forums than on a professional site. For example this mockup is fairly static in the sustain and release, that's where good players create much of the expression. On the other hand the Newman Stage is pretty dry and flat and Nexus got that right.
    Oh well, maybe some of the people here will get to live acoustic concerts and begin to wonder... :)
    Oh, and Nexus I appreciate the suggestion but it would be more helpful if you were to work with a few good live players and observe all the differences.
     

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