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  1. JoelS

    The Down-to-Earth Dreams of Today’s Guitar Buyer

    Since I'm not a WSJ subscriber, I couldn't read the rest of it, but Mooney's thesis seems solid. Guitar heroes are not the driving force in pop culture they once were. Van Halen hasn't been relevant to contemporary popular music in what... twenty five years? That's a whole generation ago. The...
  2. JoelS

    Sample Library Depreciation thread

    That's the part that I find most relevant. If sample libraries were delivered to the end user in a perfectly secure container (whether digital or physical) that could inviolably hold the data, then it would make perfect sense from the developer side of things to allow resale or returns. There...
  3. JoelS

    Sample Library Depreciation thread

    If there was a 100% secure and convenient way to preview a library that delivered a flawless end-user experience, I think developers would probably jump all over that. I've not used TrySound, but I'd be surprised if it gave a perfectly representative experience of how a library would perform...
  4. JoelS

    Sample Library Depreciation thread

    There was a very long, very heated argument about this exact topic here on this forum just last year. You could probably save yourself about twenty pages of rehashing identical stuff by unearthing it, but if you watch movies you might surmise that reanimating the dead usually doesn't end well...
  5. JoelS

    8DIO Ostinato String opinions?

    I have it, and have used it in a number of tracks. I also have 8dio's Adagio, Agitato, and Century Strings. The conclusion I have come to in regards to their rather sprawling line of string things is that to get the most out of them, and to find a sound I am quite happy with, I must treat them...
  6. JoelS

    Century Brass

    I don't think the 12FH are taken from 8W/Majestica, which has a single combined-brass patch and no legato. They're unique to Century, they're just... a bit oddly presented. Maybe they're best viewed as an 'extra' color in the palette. I'll admit it's a bit perplexing that they don't have a FF...
  7. JoelS

    Century Brass

    To the OP, this ^ trying different mic options, particularly on the 6 horns, might change your opinion of them. They get really bright, which I love. If you don't love that, try using mainly the wide mics and play around with the others to get your own mix. It affects the tone a lot, and could...
  8. JoelS

    Century Brass

    I didn't feel like making a big comparison of sustain patches, but here's a small piece with Century Brass sustains. Since you mentioned you were mocking up Williams stuff, I just played in a few motifs from memory. 2 trumpet sustain + 4 trumpet staccato (stacked) for the Superman riff 2...
  9. JoelS

    Century Brass

    Unusable? Really? (I'll actually agree with the 'unusable' descriptor there, in a limited way, since their concept for marcatos controlled by the Speed knob doesn't fit at all with my workflow, but we've set those aside, so...) OMG! I know, right? They're great! Wait... you meant it the...
  10. JoelS

    Whats best thick-sounding Choir library for dramatic (& what will the focus of Spitfire's choir be)?

    I agree with the Oceania praise. It ended up replacing the Ark marcato syllables as my 'dramatic nonsense choir.' I like the Oceania sound a bit better and think it has just a little more oomph to it at its most intense. Of course, you also get legatos (and the whole rest of the library) with...
  11. JoelS

    Cheap heavy metal bass solutions

    FTS Edge Bass is very cheap ($30) and effective. I like using the DI version through various amp sims. It probably can't pull off virtuoso bass playing, but if you want it for filling out the mix in a supporting role, you probably won't find a quality instrument at less expense. No refunds. I...
  12. JoelS

    The Amount of Music in Movies

    Isn't much of all the 'extra' music treated as wallpaper in the mix? The most recent two movies I saw in the theater are Solo and Infinity War. I'm only going off of memory, and have no direct study or data, but in my recollection so much of the music in both was buried under the dialogue and...
  13. JoelS

    Sample Developers, and Direct Feedback from their Customers ?

    There's also the relatively recent issue of GDPR compliance governing how a developer may communicate with anyone in the EU. If you are a resident of the EU, unless you explicitly opt-in to a developer's newsletter/mailing list, they can't collect that info (say, from a purchase) and communicate...
  14. JoelS

    Flaws in 8Dio Lacrimosa

    So, for me personally, I have bought... I don't even know how best to quantify it. At least 2TB of samples, probably well over a hundred distinct libraries. Bunch of big ones, many small ones. I've never counted them all. I have 0% 'duds,' if you're defining that as 'something I feel I wasted my...
  15. JoelS

    Flaws in 8Dio Lacrimosa

    Just to clarify, if you were referring to the lists I posted back on page 4, all they are is a look at the EULAs of various developers in regards to whether they allow resale or refunds of purchased libraries. If I misinterpreted your EULA, I'll switch it. I made no value judgement in that...
  16. JoelS

    Flaws in 8Dio Lacrimosa

    Though I will add that about five seconds of searching yielded this: Barcelona Overtone Choir Some pretty whistly sounds going on there. They should ask for a refund.
  17. JoelS

    Flaws in 8Dio Lacrimosa

    No, thanks. I'm not going to go looking for needles in haystacks. I'm content to not reduce the worth of a giant library to a sound in a single articulation of a single mic position which may or may not be objectionable to some people. I'm pretty sure if I started digging through everything I...
  18. JoelS

    Flaws in 8Dio Lacrimosa

    I'll just add that Paoling from Fluffy Audio, who has also recorded a choir library, ID'd it as overtones as well back on page three of the thread. So you can choose to believe it is a 'flaw' or you can listen to people who have actually recorded choirs. You decide. Even to those that haven't...
  19. JoelS

    Flaws in 8Dio Lacrimosa

    Which specific question? Maybe I lost it in everything else I was going on about.
  20. JoelS

    Flaws in 8Dio Lacrimosa

    So, a lot of developers actually do release such things. 8Dio has several selections on their Try Free page, including tryouts for Century Strings and Brass. Cinesamples has a bunch of freebies if you scroll way down which aren't directly from the big packs but hey, it's free stuff. Spitfire...
  21. JoelS

    Flaws in 8Dio Lacrimosa

    I'm not dodging anything. Strezov and Paoling (two developers) have already stated directly why they chose a different model than SoundIron. I've given a whole load of reasons why other devs might choose similarly. It would be great to hear directly from them why they chose the model they did.
  22. JoelS

    Flaws in 8Dio Lacrimosa

    First, nobody is perfect, developer or customer. There are certainly occasions when developers could do better or make a bad call. There might be one or two cases in the twenty years (I am trying not to believe I have been doing this for twenty years) that I recall a developer... or 'developer'...
  23. JoelS

    Flaws in 8Dio Lacrimosa

    At least in my understanding, it's not that disallowing resale/refunds prevents piracy. It doesn't. What it does is mitigate the damage done by the inevitable piracy. It is money that they can count on having to pay back the costs of making the libraries. Before they 'pocket' any money, there is...
  24. JoelS

    Flaws in 8Dio Lacrimosa

    I can't fault anyone if they don't know the history of this forum (maybe you do, it says you're a senior member), because knowing the history of a forum is probably one of the least useful things you could occupy brain space with, but... if Spitfire and Cinesamples joined in this thread...
  25. JoelS

    Flaws in 8Dio Lacrimosa

    I wasn't arguing it was pro- or anti-consumer. I was just speculating on their motive for pricing things as they do. If you want to look at the pro-consumer side of the subscription model, they do offer a really enormous range of content on it, including the newer Hollywood series of orchestral...
  26. JoelS

    Flaws in 8Dio Lacrimosa

    I was speaking generally there, not specifically about/to you. I apologize that wasn't more clear. I didn't intend to specifically implicate you with that comment. The only way to implement that on a scale that gives you a full view of the instruments is actually what Best Service has with Try...
  27. JoelS

    Flaws in 8Dio Lacrimosa

    I hope you reconsider, because I would like to hear explicity why you think: Those are your words, and what I was responding to. I am being serious and replying in good faith here to what you said. What words am I putting in your mouth? You're right that I won't consider that the dominating...
  28. JoelS

    Flaws in 8Dio Lacrimosa

    No. If someone sneezes five seconds into a violin sustain, or a fire truck kicks the siren in during a horn blast (wait that might actually be cool) it is a 'flaw.' There is a very subjective range of stuff that is not so clearly labelled, though. Noise floor Baked-in ambience from the...
  29. JoelS

    Flaws in 8Dio Lacrimosa

    If you're willing to actually discuss the matters of why developers use that sort of EULA scheme, and why it's become the industry standard, please consider the other side of the issue. There is piracy. There is the simple issue of 'someone who downloads a library can just leave it on their hard...
  30. JoelS

    Flaws in 8Dio Lacrimosa

    I'm perfectly happy to look at specific examples on their own merits. I'll defend that there is value in older libraries. It's variable how well that value matches with their price, and the prices are pretty variable depending on where you're at in the current discount wars. I still take issue...
  31. JoelS

    Flaws in 8Dio Lacrimosa

    #notajoke #thereareactualreasons I think it's great to have libraries at different price points for different audiences. So does 8Dio, apparently. And to a less micro degree Spitfire. And Orchestral Tools. And Red Room Audio. And more. I mean SoundIron really went micro with theirs, and that's...
  32. JoelS

    Flaws in 8Dio Lacrimosa

    Understandable, though even this much ought to give people pause before they blast a developer for any particular EULA stance. As a developer, here are some things that have to be contended with: a very saturated marketplace for practically any concept stiff competition from quality...
  33. JoelS

    Flaws in 8Dio Lacrimosa

    Got it, I changed my post with the list to reflect this. Maybe a plain-language statement prior to the legalese would make this clearer, or maybe my mind was just too drained to interpret 'unauthorized' as meaning it is possible to gain authorization. Kind of like the FBI warnings on old...
  34. JoelS

    Flaws in 8Dio Lacrimosa

    This is a very glib and reductive way to look at things. The entry price of Kontakt is more or less the price of being a composer that uses VIs, unless you restrict yourself to Play or libraries that use the free Kontakt Player (or UVI, or whatever). If you're tacking that onto your apparent...
  35. JoelS

    Flaws in 8Dio Lacrimosa

    My mistake, I'll alter the other post, though this is what I was trying to interpret, from your EULA: " 2. Transfer: Unauthorized transfer, resale or any form of re-distribution is prohibited for any Soundiron product," Which seems kind of unambiguously against resale. Can you clarify?
  36. JoelS

    Flaws in 8Dio Lacrimosa

    So, piracy isn't in 'the past,' it still exists. It hasn't been solved or gone away. One of the chief reasons for the industry standard EULA approach is that once the customer has that data on their hard drive, there is no getting the cat back in the bag. That data can then be spread far and...
  37. JoelS

    Flaws in 8Dio Lacrimosa

    Just uh... don't look into their history here on this forum, or elsewhere, and you can maintain that rosy outlook. For their purchasable libraries, the categorization is correct. You can't re-sell them. They are the first sample developer to offer a subscription model. You'll find a very wide...
  38. JoelS

    Flaws in 8Dio Lacrimosa

    I apologize if I put words in your mouth. I intended to address your question of 'why any customer would defend this kind of nonsense' and was also speaking generally on those topics. That's the perspective my reply came from. If there is something specific you wanted to address, I'm glad to...
  39. JoelS

    Flaws in 8Dio Lacrimosa

    I looked it up, Strezov is 'no return, no resale,' so you can mark them as naughty on your Sample Santa list. In other words, 'industry standard EULA.' If your line in the sand is returnability, so be it. Perhaps worth noting is that Performance Samples is primarily one guy, Jasper Blunk, who...
  40. JoelS

    Flaws in 8Dio Lacrimosa

    Reason #1: not all 'flaws' are agreed upon as flaws, or bad. Some people find pitch-perfect tuning and precisely trimmed note-starts robotic. That critique came up in the thread for 8Dio's Ostinato, recently. Some people felt the notes in the ostinatos were too precise, too accurate... not...
  41. JoelS

    Flaws in 8Dio Lacrimosa

    You might take a look at/research Strezov's Wotan male choir, for which they literally cite LOTR Moria as their inspiration. I don't own it, though I'd used a few of their previous choir offerings until I switched to ones that better suited what I was doing. I can't say it will meet your...
  42. JoelS

    Flaws in 8Dio Lacrimosa

    Yes, that's a clear instance of an actual serious glitch. Hollywood Brass had some issues like that, too, notably on the solo trumpet legato, which they eventually fixed. Those instances are definitely annoying. At least in the case of Hollywood Brass, the glitch was either avoidable or...
  43. JoelS

    Flaws in 8Dio Lacrimosa

    How much noise reduction is the proper amount a developer should use? Is there a standard established somewhere? Vienna built a whole business on their 'silent stage' concept, which many people find dry and lifeless. Others think it's great. Project SAM, the old G-Town stuff, 8Dio all record in...
  44. JoelS

    Flaws in 8Dio Lacrimosa

    It's not an 'admission' implying guilt, it's a conscious decision made on a philosophical basis of whether or not the developer thinks it's proper to noise-reduce their samples or offer the natural recordings. Some do, some don't. Some record in halls, some record on stages, some record in...
  45. JoelS

    Flaws in 8Dio Lacrimosa

    So, in your video you demonstrate what appears to be a second or so of the loudest dynamic level (or one of the loudest) of each note of what I guess is one articulation (ah) of a basic sustain patch? I can't tell because you don't show which patch it is. On a few notes, the noise floor seems...
  46. JoelS

    8Dio Century Ensemble Strings

    It handles them pretty well, with a bit of work. The first passage is set up like so: V1 SUS molto vibrato + V1 spiccato feathered V2 SUS vibrato + V2 spiccato feathered Vla SUS vibrato + Vla spiccato feathered C SUS vibrato + C spiccato feathered at :16 there's a brief use of the V1 + V2...
  47. JoelS

    8DIO Century Brass

    edit: apparently Saxer types faster than me, we want the same thing... Is there any chance that you could also add in versions of certain articulations which currently do not respond to key-release to have a more standard response? For example, the Crescendo Sfz patches play all the way through...
  48. JoelS

    8DIO Century Brass

    These tracks use 100% Century Brass* *the sole exception is in a few instances I used the Trumpet Ensemble Triplets articulation from Berlin Brass because CB's repetitions and/or stacs weren't quite as clearly defined at very high tempos. You can listen to 8 more tracks using CB here...
  49. JoelS

    8DIO Century Brass

    I can't direct you to a detailed review, but I will give you a somewhat thorough opinion on Century Solo and Ensemble Brass. Century Brass is the first brass library I've used that plays how I want it to and sounds how I feel brass ought to sound. I am happier with my CB purchase than with any...
  50. JoelS

    SampleOddity releases ODDMOSPHERES 3: expressive cinematic patches for Massive

    Thanks! Coming from a prolific synth-sound crafter such as yourself, the compliment is appreciated : ) I think a lot of people overlook Massive's capacity for making expressive sounds that work in a cinematic context. It's so ubiquitous, and seems pretty well represented in EDM genres, but it's...
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