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On the Fence About Spitfire Studio Woodwinds

You appear to have the reading skills of a 3-year old, Ism. Nowhere in my post did I equate any or all of the current or future users of the Studio Series with 5-year olds. I merely suggested that we would see more happy faces among those users if they were (or had the brains of) 5-year olds.

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Haha, great post man! That was pretty funny, but april fools was quite a while ago now
 
The problem for someone like me who is just learning, when you hear various comments like that, you do think twice. If someone with experience can't make it sound good, I definitely can't. And? I have a lot of WW libraries. The oboes are usually the questionable one for me. Always sounds like a pipe organ. Though that might not be a bad thing.
On one hand I can see the problem you're describing and I agree to some extent.
On the other hand: If I hear something and believe it sounds good and I want it, that's enough validation for me.
 
The problem for someone like me who is just learning, when you hear various comments like that, you do think twice. If someone with experience can't make it sound good, I definitely can't. And? I have a lot of WW libraries. The oboes are usually the questionable one for me. Always sounds like a pipe organ. Though that might not be a bad thing.
This is a perfect library for someone getting a start (and not just), something worth having in your pallet. My quibbles with it are specific to my usage and my taste. If you generally like what you hear, then go for it!
 
This is a perfect library for someone getting a start (and not just), something worth having in your pallet. My quibbles with it are specific to my usage and my taste. If you generally like what you hear, then go for it!

I am not a working composer at the moment, but do want a wind library that will stand up to pro work...without breaking the bank, what would you suggest? I already have 8Dio's solo winds. Thanks.
 
@jaketanner I also have the Claire Woodwinds & have quite using them, but that's another story...

In your shoes I'd listen closely to all the examples you can find, and then make your judgements, without paying (much) attention to what you might read here.

The price counts also, and these are extremely low prices for the content you're getting!
 
@jaketanner I also have the Claire Woodwinds & have quite using them, but that's another story...

In your shoes I'd listen closely to all the examples you can find, and then make your judgements, without paying (much) attention to what you might read here.

The price counts also, and these are extremely low prices for the content you're getting!

Well for the core library, it's almost a no-brainer at less than $120...but to have the additional instruments would be nice...especially the bass instruments. Not so much concerned about the mics, although they do make a big difference as well. Just wanted to know if there were other alternatives within the sale price range I should be looking at.
 
when you hear various comments like that, you do think twice. If someone with experience can't make it sound good, I definitely can't.

There's a converse to this also - sometimes it takes experience to make something sound bad. re-peat's (similarly savage) critique of SStS, for instance, was helpful. He provides a penetrating insight into the limitations of library. But it took me quite a bit of effort to even reproduce (some of) them. Wheres my own experience is that on the whole it's wonderful $200 library. To be clear, there is no accusation of bad faith, here. Library makers generally don't go out of their way to foreground the spaces in which the library sounds truly bad, so more experienced people able to immediately hone in on these no-go zones in the palette of a library are genuinely helpful.

So in this sense, was my own failure to make the library sound bad a consequence of my the limitations of skill own level and my (by comparison) 5-year old brain? Sure, you can put it like that if you like if you like. Why not.

And would I like to shift my main string library to something more deeply sampled (and more expensive) within, hopefully a couple of year if all goes well? Absolutely. But for now, I'm loving the sounds I can make with SStS, and am over the moon to be able to get into this kind of aesthetic space for $200. (And I'm also glad I bought it before I read the negative death spiral of negative reviews, which don't seem to be terribly relevant to my own experience).

So I'm grateful to have access to this level of (even rather savage) professional critique that the above represents. My only point is that, for many of us here, it really needs to be contextualized to be helpful.

That's say, you're probably right about the SStW oboe though - certainly for exposed lyrical passages, it's clearly not sampled to the level of the (immensely beautiful) oboe in SSW, or OTWW exp B. Of course the oboe in the latter alone in effect costs almost as much at the 13 instruments in SStW. So for most of us, price is a relevant bit of context.
 
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I am not a working composer at the moment, but do want a wind library that will stand up to pro work...without breaking the bank, what would you suggest? I already have 8Dio's solo winds. Thanks.

That's an interesting question, maybe one that merits a separate thread.

I've been - slowly - figuring out how to mix a few of the Claire instrument with SSW so that the Claire can take over in those more lyrical moments that go beyond the lyrical expressiveness of SSW. It varies by instrument how successful this has been, but on the whole I quite like this approach. If I had to do it again I might well have SSW + OTW Exp B, but there's a lot that I love in the Claire also (when taken as a supplement to SSW, and not a general purpose wind lib).

OT explicitly partitions a general purpose vs lyrical instruments strategy in the way the main lib is augmented with Exp B & C (there's useful examples on the main OTW thread, including helpful demos by re-peat on the limitations of the main library for lyrical parts). Whereas, by comparison with OT, many of the SSW instruments can take you surprisingly far into lyrical territory (ie the Ob the B.Cl, not so much the Cl).

Were I debating SSW vs SStW as a main library, the biggest issue in addition to the hall sound, would be that SStW is apparently not as deeply sampled as (or in any event, seems not to extend into lyrical territory as far as) SSW. I'd be curious how a Claire + SStS strategy would work. The big question is how well it will blend - especially if you only have core version. I find the close mics to be absolutely essential for SSW, wheres merely nice to have on comparable string libraries.

I have a demos of SSW mixed with Claire - but they would be off topic here.
 
The big question is how well it will blend - especially if you only have core version. I find the close mics to be absolutely essential for SSW, wheres merely nice to have on comparable string libraries.

Good to know...and that's how I would use 8dio as well. I do have the Studio winds on my wishlist...just reading the reviews versus listening to the walkthroughs (which let's face it, they are not going out of their way to expose any limitations), and trying to figure if it's a wise investment.
 
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Good to know...and that's how I would use 8dio as well. I do have the Studio winds on my wishlist...just reading the reviews versus listening to the walkthroughs (which let's face it, they are not going out of their way to expose any limitations), and trying to figure if it's a wise investment.
On the other hand, I don't think Paul's walkthrough and demo for Studio Woodwinds do the library much of a favor. I think this video by Paul sells the library much better:
 
Downloaded and tried SStW core.

My initial thoughts:
1. Tree 1 mics are bad. Core version should be switched to a close mic or one of the mix options if that's possible. It has a muddy kind of room tone which doesn't sound so great.
2. Panning seems to be weird in the tree 1 mics from what I hear, like everything is panned to the right.
3. Clarinet and bassoon are missing the staccatissimo articulation. Maybe other instruments as well - probably glanced over them in my cursory look.
4. Oboe is just plain bad and should be redone. Doesn't have any of the emotion or expressiveness of an oboe.
5. Staccatissimo dynamics follow the mod wheel. This is weird since the staccatos follow velocity. I'm not sure if this behavior can be changed. Multitongues also follow the mod wheel. Also weird.
6. Runs with the legato articulation are OK. Can sound robotic at times.
7. Vibrato blending is not so smooth.
8. Fit somewhat better in an orchestral context than CH winds.
9. No unseemly/ overly odd samples so far.

Do I like it? I don't know yet. Do I feel like I need the pro version?i think I'd rather wait for - infinite woodwinds and cinematic studio woodwinds before deciding.

What is unsettling is Spitfire often takes its own seet time (if at all) to update its libraries. If some of these bother you (and keep bothering me) it's probably a smart idea to stay away from this library than hope Spitfire is going to do something about it.
 
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There are several issues when "wanting" a library: 1. Some of us don't know any better (noobs) 2. We can't test the library 3. Even if we could test it, we go back to point number 1. (I tested Hans Zimmer Piano, thought yeah, this is nice, bought it, now regret it...). At the end of the day, I want the best library. I cannot say Spitfire WW or any library from them or any developer is bad or good, but I can say that when you find out after some experience that what you bought is meh, and it cost 399 bucks, then at that moment you stop trusting that company and who cares? Only you, because they already have your money for good.
 
Good to know...and that's how I would use 8dio as well. I do have the Studio winds on my wishlist...just reading the reviews versus listening to the walkthroughs (which let's face it, they are not going out of their way to expose any limitations), and trying to figure if it's a wise investment.

Just to add a more impressionistic coda to that - whatever the merits of SStW, I do feel that SSW is one of the truly great sample libraries. I'm sure I'll continue to augment it (with Claire, OT, Fluffy, Sonokinetic etc), and hope for updates to its weak points (ie. lyrical clarinet). But I wouldn't be at all surprised if 10 years from now I'm still using it. No disrespect to competing libraries, but to my ear there's nothing that comes close to that particular SSW sound.

SStW - well lots to love here. Both as an amazingly priced entry point, and as an expansion to the SSW (or other main lib) palette, or for the "glassy" sound if you value the dryness of the studio sound, or for that moment where you just really want a touch of harshness in an oboe solo, or probably a dozen other things besides, and I'm seriously considering picking it up.

But SSW is just such an amazing piece of work - assuming of course that you're partial to whatever it is about the sound that makes it sound so great. No other library - with the major exception of Tundra - has had such an impact on the way I think about sample libraries, and what's possible with sample libraries.

So I stand by all the above technical pontification. But emotional, SSW all the way.
 
Upgraded to Professional and this is a terrific library!

Thanks to re-peat for providing the samples that ultimately led to buying this, SStW's one of the most inspiring libraries I ever owned...and I own a TON of Spitfire, Hein, and EW.
 
On one hand I can see the problem you're describing and I agree to some extent.
On the other hand: If I hear something and believe it sounds good and I want it, that's enough validation for me.

This is a perfect library for someone getting a start (and not just), something worth having in your pallet. My quibbles with it are specific to my usage and my taste. If you generally like what you hear, then go for it!

This is the problem, I'm not sure I like what I hear. I need to relisten to some of the walkthroughs. And I have SSO plus the basic OT WW. (and VSL SE and HWO Gold) so really, it is not needed other than it is drier than the other libraries. Well, not VSL, but that has only 2 RR's so it is not the best.
 
Well, I took the plunge and bought the Studio Orchestra core package in the Spring Sale. I've been going through it today and, I have to say, I'm absolutely thrilled with how it sounds! To my ears it sounds better than the walkthroughs and certainly much better than I thought it would after reading some of the negative comments about it. However, I fully admit I am totally unqualified to judge... I wrote music in my youth and somehow fell out of it for 20 years. Last year I started writing again was slightly surprised to find the music that now most inspires me to write are orchestral pieces by composers such as Jeremy Soule and James Horner.

I've never written an orchestral piece before, but wanted a library that separated all the instruments so I could have a try. I fully understand that there are better libraries available, but to get strings, brass and woodwinds for just over £300 on a small footprint of about 33gb is fantastic for me. If I do become devoted to this type of composition and start seeing the flaws in these libraries I can always upgrade in the years to come and I'm sure I won't begrudge the small outlay that got me started!
 
This is the problem, I'm not sure I like what I hear. I need to relisten to some of the walkthroughs. And I have SSO plus the basic OT WW. (and VSL SE and HWO Gold) so really, it is not needed other than it is drier than the other libraries. Well, not VSL, but that has only 2 RR's so it is not the best.
Shit, you already have great stuff! You're probably good.
 
Shit, you already have great stuff! You're probably good.
I probably am. I really like the sound of SSO. But I may pick up the core version of the SStO since I can get it for about $237. Then I would only need to upgrade the winds and brass later. I picked up the strings pro when they had the last sale.
 
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