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My conclusion regarding new libraries

Goldie Zwecker said:
New libraries come out every week. One thought that comforts me is this:
If I/you like some songs, albums, tracks etc - that were made before this new library (fill in the blank) existed and you think they are great - than great music can be made without it.
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I've come to realize this also. Every new Spitfire library has gorgeous demos... but equally gorgeous are the 2013 demos for Albion II / Loegria.
 
DSmolken said:
That's true, unless you're in a very competitive market with rapidly changing trends, and really do need the current sounds to avoid falling behind. But I don't know if even trailer music or hip-hop is really like that.

But as a developer, I try to make libraries that either allow things that couldn't be done before without getting realinstrumenty (like brushed snare stirs or weird cheap old guitars) or things that are kind of possible now but are a pain and could be done better/easier/faster. Yes, great music can be made without the things I sell. But hopefully they make the sound in someone's head more accessible.
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This is it for me. Orchestral libraries are only ok but are lacking when it comes to some idiomatic techniques and real world dynamic and timbral options. Creatively, sample libraries can be stultifying and frustrating if you know what is possible but can't achieve it digitally imv.
 
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But yeah. New stuff is new stuff. Old stuff doesn't stop working. But new stuff may do something you hadn't thought of or had wished you had before.

Just think about what you need and what you want to buy. It isn't rocket science.
 
As a person struggling to make ends meet only through music for several years now, I've made my peace with the fact that I simply cannot afford myself much of the stuff I would like to have. This is especially true when talking about sample libraries. I'm well aware that I'm not in a position to "follow trends", and frankly I really don't have the need. Since I primarily compose for my own purposes, at least for the time being, my first criteria when buying sample libraries is personal inspiration. Although I often watch various presentations and reviews of the new products, I am always very down-to-earth when it comes to the decision what to actually buy. The always limited budget and the actual needs keep my choices quite narrow, and in a way, I'm thankful for that. :)
 
I'd say that the laws of diminishing returns have really taken effect on sample libraries now.
The biggest companies are chasing things like integration (Native Instruments), community (Spitfire), and introducing new buying choices (Orchestral Tools.)

Like the OP suggests, I'm not sure there's that much sonic territory left to mine.
TomislavEP said:
As a person struggling to make ends meet only through music for several years now, I've made my peace with the fact that I simply cannot afford myself much of the stuff I would like to have. This is especially true when talking about sample libraries. I'm well aware that I'm not in a position to "follow trends", and frankly I really don't have the need. Since I primarily compose for my own purposes, at least for the time being, my first criteria when buying sample libraries is personal inspiration. Although I often watch various presentations and reviews of the new products, I am always very down-to-earth when it comes to the decision what to actually buy. The always limited budget and the actual needs keep my choices quite narrow, and in a way, I'm thankful for that. :)
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You're not the only one - don't worry! This is basically me too. (And you can add the need to feed a family..)

I'm not bothered though. As a very personal thing, having less choices = better mental health.
FWIT, I haven't needed to make a new purchase in some time. Albion ONE was the last library I brought, not long after release. I usually find the answer somewhere in my existing collection.

I do covet the full Spitfire Symphony Orchestra though. Always have done. Maybe one day I'll find both the justification and funds.
 
Also the obvious elephant in the room:
Audio libraries are among the few items that you:
A) don't get to try or test drive before purchase in any form
B) can't return if you don't like it

This is still a socialist era mentality of customer service. Of course for "some" developers this is a godsend otherwise they won't be able to sell half of their redundant and repackaged stuff if people are allowed to try it.
Yep, I don't think I would buy any of the libraries from certain developer that starts with a number if I was allowed to test them in first place. So yeah, I get why they are not to eager to make it so.

But things will have to change one way or another.
 
Alex Fraser said:
I'm not sure there's that much sonic territory left to mine.
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I think there’s lots left to mine, but whether it’s profitable to mine is a different question. And then there is the complexity of integrating it all into something that is manageable. Can you add complexity and detail at a price point suitable for sufficient sales to make the library worth producing and can the library be made simple enough to use that it doesn’t take years to master on its own?

That said there does come a point where you have libraries more or less sufficient to what you need and diminishing returns kick in in a serious way.
 
I think one problem is that the bulk of libraries follow trends rather than setting them. (e.g. trailer noises, "Currently Fashionable Composer Toolkit," epic ffffff brass). True innovation comes with significant financial risk. I wonder how many truly unique and wonderful concepts for libraries never actually see the light of day because of this.

This leads to a weird sort of stagnation. It's like, Symphobia (or Albion or whatever) was a huge success, so a lot of devs started doing their own takes on it. On one hand, refinement is good, and the bar is raised. But on the other hand, this causes a weird sort of arms race where everyone is reinventing the wheel. So then you end up with 12 different flavors of ensemble libraries that all essentially have a similar goal in mind: Sound like trendy film/tv/game scores.

Add in the nostalgia factor, and people are constantly trying to sound like yesterday's favorite thing. The orchestra is a very traditional thing; no matter how many weird section sizes or oddball orchestrations or extended techniques you throw at it, it still retains this sense of "This is how we've been doing real music for centuries." So why change it?

And then of course there's the "completionist" mentality. I'm pretty sure they can just keep pumping out Albions and Arks and Inspires and Cinematic Studios etc, and people will keep buying them just because they own the rest of the series. So that could potentially lead to developers trying to keep wringing money out of regulars, as opposed to breaking entirely new ground. I guess that's probably the more prudent business decision though. (I suppose both could happen concurrently, but it comes down to that positive cash flow)

Then there's the other marketing stuff we are subjected to, like the McRib-esque "Get it before it goes away forever!" tactics, or the high-pressure "intro pricing" racket, or the "Used by Grammy Winning Composer x," or the "We will never run sales (... except when we do)" disingenuous exclusivity sort of thing.

Add to this the perceived expectations of the listening public, expectations of style or fidelity or coherency, expectations of 12-TET, and it feels like many composers (and developers!) are losing control of their output.

It's bad enough our work is undervalued by society. But now these people are selling our dreams to us, trying to make us think "If only I had a (marginally) better strings library, then I could finally be happy." So we end up with $5000 worth of strings presets, but we never actually stop looking at the next big thing, grass is greener etc. But at the end of the day, it really is just presets. It just so happens that people here tend to like really, really expensive presets.

Presets for the synthesizer that is your mind.

Do I have a point? No, not really. I'm just bored and rambling. But in places like this one, I get the impression that consumerism is as much a hobby as music is. Nothing against it, as long as folks are happy.

(N.B: I don't really know what I'm talking about)
 
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halfwalk said:
I think one problem is that the bulk of libraries follow trends rather than setting them. (e.g. trailer noises, "Currently Fashionable Composer Toolkit," epic ffffff brass). True innovation comes with significant financial risk. I wonder how many truly unique and wonderful concepts for libraries never actually see the light of day because of this.
...
Do I have a point? No, not really. I'm just bored and rambling.
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I'm editing samples, but I'll take a small break to join you in the rambling. Making a library, especially a choir or orchestra, is a big and time-consuming thing. There's financial risk, plus it just takes time. So, it kind of makes sense that libraries follow trends that started in the more agile real world. See dry, intimate strings or felted pianos - fairly quick to do that for a gig or recording session for a piece of music, if it doesn't work you wasted a few hours at most before moving on. You didn't waste months of editing samples.

It's like trends in art. Architecture follows sculpture which follows painting which follows writing which follows philosophy, because philosophy's just thinking and it doesn't take much time or materials.

Orchestral libraries follow small ensemble or solo libraries which follow recordings which follow gigs which follow farting around with instruments at home, I guess. Not always, because some things can't exist except as a library (HZ Strings aren't exactly something you can just do at a live gig), but in general, libraries following trends is natural, and that goes especially for the biggest, epicest libraries.
 
DSmolken said:
Orchestral libraries follow small ensemble or solo libraries which follow recordings which follow gigs which follow farting around with instruments at home, I guess. Not always, because some things can't exist except as a library (HZ Strings aren't exactly something you can just do at a live gig), but in general, libraries following trends is natural, and that goes especially for the biggest, epicest libraries.
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Except solo libraries have on the whole proved far harder to render credibly than ensemble libraries.
 
Sure, that's true. If I was rambling precisely, I'd say I don't mean "follow" in the sense that they'll be lagging behind in terms of quality or ability to be convincing, just that they'll probably be slower when it comes to following changing trends. I mean, solo singers might be harder to pull off with samples than choirs, but it's still a lot easier logistically to record 50 hours of solo singer than 50 hours of choir.

But I'm really just extrapolating from something an architecture professor said in a lecture 20-odd years ago.
 
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