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Lyle Murphy Books

Personally, I have no idea. I know nothing about the MITA course. *HOWEVER*, one of the founders (Frank/Blackster) directly said in a post (link below) that MITA was in no way related to EIS. Here's the quote from the thread:

"Let me chime in as people don't really seem to know what MITA is! MITA is a complete course on its own that is not related to the other course in any case! Yes, my co-founder and myself are graduates of the other course but your statement about "the full fledged thing" is not true. You've admitted that you don't know what MITA is about, yet you do a comparison. And MITA offers 1-on-1 teaching, that's the only option how to learn MITA right now. :)"

And the thread link below.

https://vi-control.net/community/threads/best-online-courses-for-composing.64195/page-2#post-4184358

So, Friflo, I can't answer to it, but according to one of the founders, MITA is in no way related to EIS. Please correct me if I misread that thread.

Mike
:) Thanks for pointing out that post to me! Sometimes, the answer is somewhere hidden within the answer, you just have to find it ... ;)
Ok, so, MIT is pretty much an interpretation of EIS by a student.
 
And that is goodnight know,mas, if somebody was interested in EiS and wanted to check it out, he could take the much cheaper monthly membership from MITA to check out some of the basics. It is probably not the same, but I am sure it is very similar!
 
:) Thanks for pointing out that post to me! Sometimes, the answer is somewhere hidden within the answer, you just have to find it ... ;)
Ok, so, MIT is pretty much an interpretation of EIS by a student.

Interesting how you go from "MITA is a complete course on its own that is not related to the other course in any case" to "It's an interpretation by a student"
Maybe @Blackster himself would chime in.
 
Interesting how you go from "MITA is a complete course on its own that is not related to the other course in any case" to "It's an interpretation by a student"
Maybe @Blackster himself would chime in.
So, I am not allowed to draw my own conclusions from the information given? Of course, they have to say it is their own thing! Because, legally, you can use teaching methods by someone else you learned from. But that doesn't mean, you can copy the exact script and give it the identical name! That would have legal consequences in most countries, I believe.
There are just to many coincidences here ... two students from EIS found their own teaching class ... look at the sample lessons ... listen to the composition exercises. You can believe what you want, but I am pretty certain that this is at least heavily inspired by EIS - in this case I don't care what the MITA guys say.
 
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:) Thanks for pointing out that post to me! Sometimes, the answer is somewhere hidden within the answer, you just have to find it ... ;)
Ok, so, MIT is pretty much an interpretation of EIS by a student.

Let me be clear. That is you who said that, FriFlo. I do not know or understand where you got that conclusion, and I certainly did not say anything to that nature.

In fact, why not contact Frank (Blackster) and inquire with him? Here you have an EIS grad, and the founder of the MITA course, he would definitely be qualified to answer your suppositions.

I'm also now a bit confused; what is your purpose of these questions now? is it to find out if MITA is EIS in some way? is it to complain that EIS is secret? I'm not even sure what you're discussing.
 
So, I am note allowed to draw my own conclusions from the information given?
Sure you are. Let me rephrase your statement,

"Okay, then, so IN MY OPINION, MITA is pretty much an interpretation of EIS by a student."

Would that be a more fair representation of your post? Or is your post factual, as in, you *know* that MITA is an interpretation of EIS by a student?

Because right now, the founder of MITA and EIS grad said there's nothing in common between the two courses, and you basically said, "wrong, Blackster, they are in fact highly related."

Since you are contradicting one of the founders, I'd be interested to hear your logic/proof of that.

I do not know one way or the other, and am very careful to state that explicitly. I'm not qualified or knowledgeable to discuss EIS versus MITA.

Mike
 
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So, I am not allowed to draw my own conclusions from the information given? Of course, they have to say it is their own thing! Because, legally, you can use teaching methods by someone else you learned from. But that doesn't mean, you can copy the exact script and give it the identical name! That would have legal consequences in most countries, I believe.
There are just to many coincidences here ... two students from EIS found their own teaching class ... look at the sample lessons ... listen to the composition exercises. You can believe what you want, but I am pretty certain that this is at least heavily inspired by EIS - in this case I don't care what the MITA guys say.

Understood. Thank you for your clarification, FriFlo. This answers my post above.

Mike
 
I just wanted to find out how much there is in common, as good as possible. Why do you guys have a problem with that? I really don't get you!
Why I don't trust the words of the founder is also simple and not complicated to understand ... ask the founder of Pepsi Cola, if he was inspired by Coca Cola and imagine he would claim he invented that drink independently. Imagine, you don't have any prove for what is the truth in this case?! What would you believe to be more probable? You cannot be sure, you cannot prove it, but you can draw your own conclusion, right?
 
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Hi all,

I am one of the EIS teachers. I've had a quick read of the last couple of pages and I'd like to clear up a few things.

First, EIS has no marketing strategy. A few of us help Lilith, Lyle Murphy's daughter and owner of the course, as she preserves the course and continues how her father taught which is one on one. We are are making strides in evolving the course but everyone involved is a working musician on top of being a teacher. So, we are very slow moving. We do not advertise. Everything has been word of mouth and goes by merit of success however it is measured.

Second, we are all very accessible. Anyone can contact us through the website. We have Q&A sessions or "interviews" with any perspective serious student before they sign up for lessons. We usually do two, they are one on one with different teachers, and often run an hour. We don't get paid for this either. We attempt to answer every question we can before someones pay ANY money. So, we are not as secretive or monetarily greedy as has been imagined. We aren't subscription based, pay to play, or any other high pressure sales organization and we teachers are ultimately accountable. We just don't hand you these "secret" texts (guarded by unicorns on Mount Olympus) and collect money.

Third, Lyle Murphy designed the course for the "working musician" in mind. There are ways to look at that statement. Some could say the course is for someone established musically. Some would say it means the course is efficient so that one can maintain their career (whatever it may be) and still progress their abilities via the course. Others could say it's just a no nonsense approach to creating and understand music. All of these would be true.

Fourth - style, arranging, and orchestration. Lyle Murphy composed music in his style in his stylistic era. So, he sounds a lot like what we call "jazz"...obviously. BUT he was influenced and studied ALL music. He LOVED Stravinsky among others. The Equal Interval System course reflects this. One of his master strokes is that he teaches no style or references traditional repertoire. The course encourages your style and can be applied to any genre of music. On the subject of arranging, he was a great and "in demand" arranger in his day, Murphy often uses the model of his era but stresses that everything is a matter of form...whatever that form may be is the composers choosing but it has to be there. What could be more empowering! Finally, orchestration is a part of the course that is WAY deeper than that section appears to be. Best of all, on the surface, it's seems pretty basic and one can do a solid orchestration while working through it. Is it THE comprehensive final word on orchestration... NO... and there never will be one because throughout history composers are always looking for new sounds and instruments.

For anyone reading forums and suffering through threads like this about EIS, consider this: almost everyone who has really studied the course, and especially graduates, praise the course. Almost anyone who trashes the course knows nothing of the course. Teachers are a necessity as we often customize, prepare supplemental material, or do extra things to help a student understand because no two students are the same. That's why teachers are selected since, our goal is to maintain Lyle Murphy's standard. Teaching requires something more than just being a graduate and we are devoted to our students.

As a group, EIS has created a new website https://equalintervalsystem.com. We aren't pros at this sort of thing so be gentle and we will improve. Ha! But we are trying to be even more accessible. We have a blog and will be putting neat stuff in there which we will cross post on VI. There is info on the site that explains some things for anyone who wants to read it. One fun thing I would like to share is a video we just put together containing audio of Lyle "Spud" Murphy reading the Foreword of the course to his student James Venable. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_L._Venable
Jim is a GREAT composer, EIS teacher, and person. He has composed the score for many movies and TV shows. It's a neat snapshot in time since it was Jim's first lesson captured on a cassette tape. Spud explains things pretty plainly here. We will post a transcript soon.

The video can be found here:


Finally, someone wrote "Can anybody name a culturally significant piece of music written using this "system"?" All I can say is I can't think of anything more culturally significant to me and my family than being able to compose and provide an income for my family as a composer and musician. I'm not going to get into a "my system is better than your system" discussion since it is just plain silly. I'm thankful for every opportunity that comes my way and for what I learned and continue to learn studying EIS...
...and I absolutely love to help and watch an EIS student grow as they study the course.

Thanks,
Matt
 
I am intrigued for sure, but would not pay into this system without more info. I am sure it will help immensely in my Trailer music compositions...:whistling:
 
I am intrigued for sure, but would not pay into this system without more info. I am sure it will help immensely in my Trailer music compositions...:whistling:

Here's the part that does seem to get lost in the noise... you can learn everything you want/need to learn about the course by contacting a teacher or two, or three. They really will answer your questions, and you can get as detailed as you like. As about the approach, how much time you should commit, whatever.

There is NO dearth of information, but it is distributed in a manner that seems to put people off. I know not why.
 
When questions are asked about the theory on this site it is usually responded to with a suggestion to sign up for private lessons. I have had the interviews with eis instructors and they told me nothing about the theory, nor would I expect them to be able to explain it in an hour long phone call. I think many people have been clear what their turn off is, there is no economical way to learn about it. They are interested, but it’s cost prohibitive to learn when the only way is through private lessons at $100 per hour.

Also their estimation of how long it would take to work through the private lesson plan, it was represented as needing to be YEARS, on a weekly basis. The reason is because in addition to teaching the theory they working students step by step through composition studies, which is not a bad thing per say but it’s not what all people want or need just to learn the core eis theory
 
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You can buy books on quantum physics (one of the hardest topics for most humans to grasp) for $144 on amazon, but you can only learn Spud's method as it is distributed by his pupils. Hmm... Would I learn all there is to know about quantum physics by reading this collection? No. Would I gain a much better understanding of what it is? Most certainly!

Amazon product ASIN 052167056X
I think the point here is that many of the students respect Spud's wishes to protect it and pass it on teacher to student; and to their credit they keep their word. One cannot legally protect a theory or method, so Spud was smart in that wish but let's stop saying it can't be taught any way but teacher to student; that is just silly.

Also, I respect that the teachers themselves spent a ton of money to get to where they are and would probably prefer to leverage that investment - makes sense.

Bottom line - things ain't gonna change, no matter how many times this topic is brought up.
 
I'm just getting around to this now, been busy, but it seems like the typical arguments and counter arguments we have seen for yrs have resurfaced, and as usual there are valid arguments on both sides. I have heard great writing by both graduates and students, and I've heard pieces I was not fond of by both. Having technical knowledge is not a certainty to writing even good music but it does allow for more possibilities and in a nutshell that is a large part of what this course offers. The price can be prohibitive to a person needing money, it was when I was a student. On the other hand as a teacher my time is better spent monetarily doing something else. I teach mostly for 2 reasons, I like to see students improve and the wealth of information in the course is so vast and useful it's great to go over it again, and again.
 
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You are running around in circles arguing with yourself.

Cool story.

EIS would not help in the slightest to understand any of the works you mentioned.

I hear lots about what it isn't, nothing about what it is. Nothing that makes any sense. I really don't see why you have such a problem with people pointing that obvious flaw out.

"Spud" Murphy was a jazz musician. He was an arranger for Benny Goodman and Tommy Dorsey.
Andre Previn is on the album I posted.

Lots of appeals to authority...no content. No explanation. Just "give us money if you want to know what it is".

Oscar Peterson would be in my opinion his most famous student.
The EIS piano book I have has a foreword by Herbie Hancock endorsing the book.

Cheap appeals to authority, usually one-offs. Any other musical theory I can analyze easily because they're rarely secrets.

"Spud" is much more like Sammy Nestico, or Russel Garcia than Stockhausen or Varèse.


His books would fit much more in a university jazz program than 20th century avant grade.

I thought the point was it was style-agnostic - now it's not?

But why write 10 posts about how it's not for you ?

It's not for me, apparently - but I'm a student of music theory. I seek out all forms of it. But if someone makes big claims - like lots do for EIS without any form of the usual kind of backup - why not discuss it? You seem awfully concerned that various people with decent grasps of music theory are asking questions in this forum.

Do you have a narcissistic personality disorder?
23 total posts to your profile, and 10 are on this ? Why not just move along ?

No. Do you have an issue with people who ask questions?

Why not answer the questions? Why doesn't someone just demonstrate some of what this magical theory is other than "you have to pay an instructor"?

Aren't you an adult that can use your own critical thinking skills to make a determination?

Critical thinking skills requires the input of information to be parsed. There isn't any about EIS in any meaningful form. Which makes it entirely unique in the field of music theory. Name another music theory that is similarly locked off. There aren't any.

Ok.... it's not for you. Why the grandstanding ?

If it's because of the marketing and not being able to see the contents first......well...... you are
on the wrong web site full stop.

It's a forum about music composition discussion, how could it be the wrong forum? You're terribly worried about people asking questions.

How many sample libraries make big claims with their marketing ?

Lots. It's irritating there too. But they're easily tested since the actual product is on display. Not wild claims and mere abstractions. If I can't tell what about a piece of music made it influenced by EIS - which I can't, because nobody will say what it even is - how can we possibly judge?

It's very common to find sample libraries that cost from $500 to bundles up to $2000 all of which need to be bought first to get access to the materials.

Can you name another abstract musical theory or idea that has to be studied with an instructor and cannot even be imparted in its simplest form, apparently, online? I can evaluate results of a sample library. I cannot evaluate what aspects of the music created with this "system" are unique.

Do you jump up and down about that ?

Definitely. Especially libraries. I skipped the rest of the false equivalencies because they were absurd.[/QUOTE]
 
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Vgamer,In the end it is about the music and you can decide whether you like what the students in the course do. Go to the website, that should be enough to stop worthless debate which is a waste of time. Also why don't you use your real name...;). I appreciate when people come in here and try to take down the course, it always fails and it brings more attention to the course, something we would not do on our own...so thank you.

For those asking about MITA, it is run by 2 EIS graduates and there is some EIS in it but they have branched out and mostly do their own thing.
 
When questions are asked about the theory on this site it is usually responded to with a suggestion to sign up for private lessons. I have had the interviews with eis instructors and they told me nothing about the theory, nor would I expect them to be able to explain it in an hour long phone call.

My experience was quite different. I don't wish to put any of the teachers on the spot, so no names! Two different teachers spent at least an hour each with me, on the phone, and while they aren't going to teach EIS in an hour (wouldn't that be lovely) I do believe I understand what it is I would learn, and what they expect of me in terms of time and money.

My life turned upside down a couple years ago, and it hasn't completely settled, and I'm not going to start something to which I can not commit. But I do believe I know enough to make an informed decision, and as I mentioned earlier, I will be studying EIS when time allows.
 
Except what you just described is the same thing that I described, not “quite different”. You just described exactly the same thing.

Bottom line, if you want to learn EIS, the only way is through private lessons.
 
It is the only way. There might be some people who can learn EIS with just the course materials but for myself and almost everyone of the students I have had, at least initially they would have gone off course (pun intended) and wasted their time.
 
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