How to make ensemble libraries flow smoothly and sound legato

[dr.soundsmith]

I recently made my first orchestral library purchase: 'Palette Symphonic Sketchpad' along with the brush pack 'Melodics'. I think it sounds good, and I like the approach of having an ensemble library along with melodic groupings. The problem is, the ensembles (brass, woodwinds, strings) don't have legato. This makes sense since they aren't meant to be played as monophonic really. The melodics pack does have true legato, but it doesn't feature every section in a traditional sense (violin, viola, cello, etc). Rather it has melodic combinations (violins in octaves, trumpets and horns together in octaves, cello and bass together, etc).
So I am having trouble getting everything to sound natural when playing whole ensembles in chords for example. There are several libraries like this (Albion One, Sonuscore The Orchestra, Berlin Inspire, etc), so I'm hoping people who use libraries like this will have some insight.
My question is basically, what are your approaches to making things sound more legato when there are chord transitions?
I have tried messing around with note overlap without much success. To illustrate what I mean, I am attaching a short example from a rock song I am working on with the orchestral parts soloed (strings, brass, and a few individual legato instruments over top) as well as just strings soloed. Is there just too much movement? Do I need to just use legato patches? Thanks.

Click to read more...

 

[dgomezcomino]

There are several libraries like this (Albion One, Sonuscore The Orchestra, Berlin Inspire, etc), so I'm hoping people who use libraries like this will have some insight.

You need this libraries if you want your music sounding like this. Each library has his own sound and way to do the things.

Anyway, maybe there are someone with your library that can help you! Good luck!

 

[Divico]

Post a picture of your midi pls. There is some problems with your programming imo\

 

[dr.soundsmith]

Post a picture of your midi pls. There is some problems with your programming imo\

I'm assuming that's the case. So insight would be great, thanks. (I'm extremely new to doing orchestral stuff)

 

[ism]

A first guess would be that you could craft the dynamics a bit.

At some point to get legato, you’re going to need legato samples.

Failing that, you need to write phrasing’s in your ensemble that don’t lean so heavily on legato.

For instance, phrases that swell, ie dip cc1 at the end of each note, then crescendo towards the middle of the note/chord are more amenable to ensemble patches than the dynamics you have here.

Similarly, you can adjust your voice leading and stagger your transitions - ie don’t change all the notes in the chord at once. Use suspensions / anticipations so the absence of legato samples on one transition is ‘hidden’ behind other notes in the voice leading. You do this a little bit, in the above, but you might try making his kind of voice leading the rule rather than the exception.

Part of making samples work is knowing what kind of phrasing you shouldn’t even attempt. Which is to say , find the sweet spot of what a library can do, and emphasize its strengths, and avoid its weaknesses.

And when composing for strings in general, you need to think about writing for strings - ie four difference sections, and not the way you would if you’re plonking in piano chords. What feels easiest and natural to play on a keyboard isn’t necessarily what makes the most sense for a string orchestra.

Another thing is, even with an ensemble patch, to break your lines into sperate track and perform the dynamics for each section individually.

 

[Jdiggity1]

While there seems to have been a recent trend of "legato is overrated" round these parts (since certain developers failed to deliver a convincing legato? ) in many cases there is simply no substitute.

You have some small overlaps in the MIDI, but I'd suggest going further with those. Part of the issue (as also pointed out by @ism above) is that every note in your chord stops/starts at the same time, making the entrance of the new chords a little jarring. Try "blurring" the chord entrances by adjusting the start times of only some of the chord notes so that not all of the notes start on the grid. For instance, you could drag the start times for notes 1 & 3 of a chord further back, but leaving 2 & 4 where they are.
I would also encourage some more movement, swells, on the cc1 data. Often with MIDI programming it helps to go "extreme" at first, and then pull it back until it sounds good. Draw BIG curves, make your notes overlap MORE than you think it'll need. Then fine tune.

Like the others though, I do not own this library, and don't really know how this one reacts.

 

[InLight-Tone]

Since you are using Cubase, you could play in those block chord type passages with the Chord Pads and even stagger the lines as suggested. I would also play in a pass with Modwheel and/or Expression for the lot. The beauty of that is that each voice will be on a separate midi channel which you can then split out with the "Mid Dissolve Part" function. From there you can assign each part to a Legato patch and then tweak the controllers, not too much work.

Personally, for trailer music and the like, I just use ensemble patches as is and layer them up till it sounds rich and lush without all the fuss. You can then layer over a legato patch section that you want emphasized like the Celli, but hey that's not "proper" orchestration in the slightest

 

[Ledwick]

Something else to help blend chord changes without the use of legato samples, is to increase the "release" setting from the Palette Symphonic Sketchpad, so the sound of each note slowly fades after it is released. Then the tails of one chord will overlap the next and help blend them. Or you could end the MIDI notes of the previous chords earlier, leaving a space, so that each chord will fade before the next one is played, in addition to cc mapping.

 

[InLight-Tone]

Something else to help blend chord changes without the use of legato samples, is to increase the "release" setting from the Palette Symphonic Sketchpad, so the sound of each note slowly fades after it is released. Then the tails of one chord will overlap the next and help blend them. Or you could end the MIDI notes of the previous chords earlier, leaving a space, so that each chord will fade before the next one is played, in addition to cc mapping.

And some reverb as well, that really stood out...