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Does the VI community considered themselves commercial composers rather than artists?

Ledwick

Member
When I say "commercial", I mean "business", not commercials on TV.

It seems most people on these forums make music for the music "industry". Am I correct? Most people here are making music to sell, to make money? I know there's exceptions, but that's mostly what I see and with posts like "does melody even matter?" and "do clients really care?", it seems like maybe a bit of a toxic environment or a downward spiral [towards a mindset where commercial production supersedes artistic expression].

I've been making music for more than 20 years and I've always enjoyed it, played live clubs, made music people like... and recently I thought about trying commercial work, but idk... the more I read on VI the more depressed I get... it's all "how can I copy that and sell it", "what sample library do i need", "what the least amount of work I can do".

This post might sound negative, depending on how you imagine my voice, but it isn't necessarily. I'm just reacting to what I see and maybe it's because VI is a commercial music community and that's what it is and that's different than what I'm looking for. Isn't there a different side to making music and other art? The side of freedom... making what you want, expressing yourself, not caring what people think, not worrying about making money or other people's opinions? You know, the non-industry side of art... Maybe this isn't the community for me...
 
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Idk. There are cool people in the world and self-hating jerks who just want to pop off sarcasm at whatever you say on any forum on the internet. My experience here is the good far outweigh the bad, much more than just about anywhere else online that I'm aware of. Generally, most people here are really helpful and cool.
 
Well, Music is my profession and my full time job, and if that wasn’t possible I’ve got no other skills than working in the grocery store. Which would not give me any time to make music because I would be depressed and exhausted in the evenings, so I would rather say the money is making it possible to make music.
 
VI-C seems to be a fine and friendly place for both hobbyist- and professional sample library collectors to congregate and talk about legato and stuff...


Maybe this isn't the community for me...
Maybe try redbanned.com if you want to talk more about composition and less about tech.

As Mike puts it: "Part of the point of Redbanned is to create a community of expectations; a bar to hit. We get like the people we're with."

Whether you prefer that approach or not is up to you of course.
 
Most people here are making music to sell, to make money? I know there's exceptions, but that's mostly what I see and with posts like "does melody even matter?" and "do clients really care?", it seems like maybe a bit of a toxic environment or a downward spiral.

I've been making music for more than 20 years and I've always enjoyed it, played live clubs, made music people like... and recently I thought about trying commercial work, but idk... the more I read on VI the more depressed I get... it's all "how can I copy that and sell it", "what sample library do i need", "what the least amount of work I can do".

No, actually most of it is "where can blindly dump even more money for stuff I'm never gonna use or make a dime on anyway".

Don't mind me, I'm just joking. :grin:

But it's true!
 
"and recently I thought about trying commercial work"

"Isn't there a different side to making music and other art? The side of freedom... making what you want, expressing yourself, not caring what people think, not worrying about making money or other people's opinions? You know, the non-industry side of art... Maybe this isn't the community for me...

I mean... If you wanna do commercial work and write music for other people (which is what you do in these situations) you can't "not worrying about making money or other people's opinions". This doesn't mean that you can't enjoy what you are doing, i personally love the challenge that is writing something that meet the vision of a costumer but at the same time sounds like me, and has my personal footprint.

I don't see how these things are toxic, does that mean that you can't talk about the industry side of things without being toxic? Why even bother with the threads that has no interest to you?
 
Thank you all, your comments are top notch. I'm trying to understand and learn from them all. I hope people keep sharing their thoughts.

I'd like to add something... what about "toxic to the art"? If Bach had to compose a song every couple days to sell to a client, would he ever have had the time to compose a symphony?

Maybe some commercial composers are hidden geniuses who could compose an amazing work of art during the course of two weeks, rather than spend that time making tons of one minute commercial tracks. Would it make the same money? Probably not. So, instead of a masterpiece, the world receives a bunch of queues.

It sounds negative, but it's really to trying to inspire. Why not try to make something more? Because to most people, it's about money, and therefor... speed, efficiency, ease. Not art. That's the toxic mindset I'm seeing alot of.

The comments from this thread are really good though, I really appreciate everyone sharing their thoughts on the subject!
 
It's the age-old thing of art vs craft.

And when you look back in history (best with painters), you always had those who were craftsmen, painting and selling piece after piece, the artists who most often either had a patron or just starved essentially.
And the big lot in-between - all those known painters who made their art without pressure to sell, just for the sake of it and to enjoy the process, and during the day they painted portraits and whatnot to sell - so they have money to actually go out and do those beautiful studies they did. Same with pottery - the single pieces of special pottery from an artists, vs the handmade, beautiful stuff, mayb eless "avant garde" but made to sell, by a craftsmen.

Is it wrong to pursue a high level of craft, to make sure one can actually spend time doing art? Is it wrong to be a craftsman? Are craftsmen toxic to the art? Are artists toxic to the craft?
 
I'm a hobbyist (now, no longer 'working') and I find VIC a comfortable place where ideas spring forth, since I am solo in my ongoing musical/compositional endeavors. But I must say, any interaction with disparate humans is going to have a 'toxic' aspect to it. It's the quid pro quo you pay for being in a community. When Fred almost shut VIC down and Mike saved it, man, what a heartfelt relief.

Power to the people!
 
I think calling it "toxic" is a bit much. Everything has its place, including prefabbed, hard to listen to trailer music. It is true that a significant number of people on this forum are actually working pros in the film/tv industry. I consider their commentary absolutely golden. Now, I am not a working pro and I have no desire to produce trailer music and many other shortcuts that are discussed here often. That particular kind of information is not of use to me, but there is plenty of other information that has been of great use. So take it for what it is...the film and tv business is what it is...composers aren't the ones determining the budgets. If you want to work as a "composer" today you have to take these shortcuts too or you will be mowing lawns for a living, its as simple as that. They have a job to do...let them do it. its not toxic. But I hear you, use your own filter to determine what applies to you and what doesn't.
 
Might I recommend moving the thread that is based solely on the premise that this entire forum is a toxic community to the drama zone?
 
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