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When Marketing Crosses the Line of Etiquette (Audio Plugin Deals)

Frederick (previous owner of VI-C) also sold all the VI-C user data to APD a while back (just before it was purchased by Mike Greene). The reason I know this is because I had a personalized email address which I had only ever used for VI-C. Up until I deleted it, it had only ever had emails from VI-C... and then suddenly got marketting spam from APD, A company I have never purchased from.

Considering Frederick was willing to sell the forum data, it's not a leap for him to sell the VI-C phone app data. This app used to request all permissions (when it was free, AND when it was paid) which would include your cell #, contacts, etc. that could easily be one source of a bunch of cell # to spam.
For liability reasons, I'll avoid commenting too specifically, and I won't offer an opinion on whether what you're alleging actually happened, but lets just say that at the time, the situation really pissed me off and I was going to pursue legal action. There were a ton of things all happening during the forum transition, though, plus I was already being taken away from my "real" gigs (Realitone and composing), so I decided it wasn't worth the additional time and stress. After a few emails to the involved parties (or not involved parties - I'll make no accusations here), the mysterious emailings ended, so I decided to leave it at that. At least for now.

Regarding phone numbers, though, that isn't information that VI-Control has ever had. All that we have is your screen name, email address, and what DAW you use. Or at least what DAW you claimed to use when you signed up. ;) We do also have the IP address you logged on from, but that's just so we can screen likely spam accounts. (There is no personal info in an IP address.)

Even with the app (which I discontinued), I don't think there was ever any phone number info there, since phone numbers aren't used when downloading apps. (At least not on iOS, where your Apple ID is all that's required.) Even if a phone number was somehow submitted during the process of installing app, I can tell you for sure that I do not have it, and I got everything Frederick had, so it was never given to us. As far as the app being able to access your phone's contacts and info and send the info to us, that's definitely not the case with this particular app.

For the record, I, Mike Greene, will never ever sell or give out your personal info. (Unless it's a legitimate one on one situation where someone who I trust needs to contact another member by email.)
 
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It seems increasingly difficult to pinpoint a specific source of spam. Many / most people have given away a huge amount of information willingly, without reading terms-of-use agreements at all, or at least not thoroughly. The Apple agreement is something like 100 pages or more.

Besides, like many, I have two-step authentication at more than one site, so at least they have my cell phone number.

Apart from the EU law, there is legislation even in the US now, at least in California, though it may take a while to make any difference. Even then, there will still be plenty of churn from actors who are unscrupulous and / or those beyond the reach of jurisdictions from which privacy laws emanate.

I have no firm information about VI Control as a source, but I doubt anyone else does either. I didn't get any texts and I've been a member for quite some time.

Maybe they did arise as a result of VI Control, but I wonder if it's possible they could stem from some other activity or purchase.
 
The reason I know this is because I had a personalized email address which I had only ever used for VI-C. Up until I deleted it, it had only ever had emails from VI-C... and then suddenly got marketting spam from APD, A company I have never purchased from.
I also use a unique email address for VI-C, and another unique email address for APD. All I can say is I've never gotten an email from APD to my VI-C address. (I do know that my PayPal address has leaked and I suspect it's related to a past donation to VI-C.)

I haven't received any texts from APD but then I have a habit of entering bogus personal information unless the company I'm conducting business with has a legitimate need for that information.

But the sheer volume of emails I've received from APD over the past few days is simply unacceptable. They have dominated my inbox. I unsubscribed and will probably disable my APD email address.
 
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But the sheer volume of emails I've received from APD over the past few days is simply unacceptable. They have dominated my inbox. I unsubscribed and will probably disable my APD email address.

Unsubscribing should do the trick. I have not received one email from APD. Your situation above is the reason I unsubscribed from 8Dio. I couldn't tolerate the volume of email. Besides, I catch wind of all the deals out there just by being a member of VI-C.
 
Its not compliant with GDPR as GDPR requires that "optin" is requested rather than assumed. Their privacy policy states "By using our services, you agree to Opt In" and that's completely against the law now in the EU
unless APD is located within the EU, GDPR doesn't apply to them-
 
unless APD is located within the EU, GDPR doesn't apply to them-
I am not a lawyer... but my interpretation of this is that it could do?
https://ec.europa.eu/info/law/law-t...ulation/who-does-data-protection-law-apply_en

The law applies to:
  1. a company or entity which processes personal data as part of the activities of one of its branches established in the EU, regardless of where the data is processed; or
  2. a company established outside the EU offering goods/services (paid or for free) or monitoring the behaviour of individuals in the EU.
Edit: beaten to it!
 
@bryla @DavidY
thanks! interesting, i didn't know that (but hey, I'm not a lawyer). still, the reality of things is different. whereas the majority of EU based companies requested OKs in order to send emails to their customers in the future, i cannot say that a single US based company send a similar request to my account.
 
;)

For the record, I, Mike Greene, will never ever sell or give out your personal info. (Unless it's a legitimate one on one situation where someone who I trust needs to contact another member by email.)

Better way to do that is to email the other member yourself and let them know the person you trust is trying to get in touch with them and can be contacted at [email protected], that way you're only passing on contact details of someone who has told you they want to be in contact with the other party.

Sorry about quoting winky face, my phone wouldn't delete it.
 
I'm sure everyone realises that the CIA, FBI, GCHQ, Russians, Chinese, Australians, Welsh, Nepalese, ancient Egyptians and probably the Andaman Islanders ALREADY have every piece of personal information on all of us that ever existed. Likely thanks to Facebook, which I would delete in a heartbeat if I didn't need it for work etc. So while I sympathise/agree with the complaints here, it's a bit of a drop in the surveillance ocean, no?
 
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So while I sympathise/agree with the complaints here, it's a bit of a drop in the surveillance ocean, no?

I tend to agree, although I still try to make it more difficult for my data to be compiled. Since I don't use social media, credit/debit cards, or store rewards cards, data collectors are going to compile a lot less information about me than the average tweeting, liking, pinning, posting, and charging American.
 
I'm sure everyone realises that the CIA, FBI, GCHQ, Russians, Chinese, Australians, Welsh, Nepalese, ancient Egyptians and probably the Andaman Islanders ALREADY have every piece of personal information on all of us that ever existed. Likely thanks to Facebook, which I would delete in a heartbeat if I didn't need it for work etc. So while I sympathise/agree with the complaints here, it's a bit of a drop in the surveillance ocean, no?
Absolutely, and that's all info just waiting to be breached. A little over a year ago my work laid off 80 plus people, including me and for the first time in 20+ years I had no source of income so I applied for unemployment. Long story short, due to all the 3rd party companies that handle resume submissions these days I've applied for a number of jobs through their online process (which takes about 2 hours longer than just sending a resume by the way) and ever since I get at least 2 spam calls a day on my cell phone. How does this relate to the government? Well it does and it doesn't. It's not that the Government is out there selling your info but they are driving policies that affect the way businesses hire and fire workers, so inadvertently the mess just gets messier. Don't expect your country laws and regulations to solve this problem. Now those 3rd party companies hired to take your resume info are double dipping. They get paid to handle resume's for a business or multiple businesses and then get paid again by selling all that data they collect. Before I was laid off I never had spam calls on my phone so I'm fairly certain this was the source.
 
Please may I suggest that it would be a kind gesture to ignore an email/SMS or two and put it into spam if it is undesired. There are a million sources of data to the advertisers and it is far too easy to collect the dots and produce full customer profile. We need this forum and the admin are doing a great job at running it. I don't hope to read these conversations about legal rights and breaches here. Life is short, please move on, make some music and enjoy a stress free life!

Cheers
 
Maybe a bit off topic, but Im too shy to start own thread. (Just kidding) But heres something related to this topic.

So anyway, theres like 2-3 mails from Waves eveyday now. Sonuscore in morning and Sonuscore in evening. Even Cinesamples is running on steroids. Yea, audioplugindeals. I check my mail in the morning and theres about 10 mails about VI sales, and I dont bother read them anymore. (I used to like these before). Then in evening theres 10 more to delete.

Whatever has happened with the marketing, but it has become lot more aggressive. Word of advice, if theres too much this marketing you will be blocked. Cool down a bit.
 
I too was very displeased about the text but APD owned up to their mistake here and said they won't do it again so I'm happy. There's no need at this point to go off the deep end with people picking up pitch forks. I know people have concerns about the privacy issue as well but if you're willing to boycott one company for having information like this, you're not going to be shopping in very many places because around 90% of the companies on the planet buys, sells and trades your information. The best defense you have when it comes to privacy, especially online is browsing with more secure browsers that have your privacy in mind while using plugins that block any unneeded outgoing information like Ghostery and Ublock Origin and using false information where you can.
 
I see your point Mystic, but I don't think this thread has become very pitchfork-y (especially in comparison to some VI threads!). In fact, it has branched off into discussions about data and marketing, which people seem interested in.

As for...

I too was very displeased about the text but APD owned up to their mistake here and said they won't do it again so I'm happy.

They didn't. They apologised to anyone who might have been inconvenienced by it, but made a thing of declaring the texting a success. They also made no statement about never doing it again. Not sure what made you think that.
 
Maybe a bit off topic, but Im too shy to start own thread. (Just kidding) But heres something related to this topic.

So anyway, theres like 2-3 mails from Waves eveyday now. Sonuscore in morning and Sonuscore in evening. Even Cinesamples is running on steroids. Yea, audioplugindeals. I check my mail in the morning and theres about 10 mails about VI sales, and I dont bother read them anymore. (I used to like these before). Then in evening theres 10 more to delete.

Whatever has happened with the marketing, but it has become lot more aggressive. Word of advice, if theres too much this marketing you will be blocked. Cool down a bit.

I think you're right. It has definitely been more aggressive this year. With a concentration from a few developers, I think. Most have been pretty laidback and emailed only a couple of reminders.

Most sale seasons I'm pretty laissez faire about it all - after all, I've signed up for emails. But, I've unsubscribed from half a dozen this Black Friday, whereas normally I don't unsubscribe at all.
 
I see your point Mystic, but I don't think this thread has become very pitchfork-y (especially in comparison to some VI threads!). In fact, it has branched off into discussions about data and marketing, which people seem interested in.
That was mainly in reply to the people who were saying they wouldn't ever buy from them again after they had posted, were blocking them, unsubscribing, etc. but that also brings me to...

They didn't. They apologised to anyone who might have been inconvenienced by it, but made a thing of declaring the texting a success. They also made no statement about never doing it again. Not sure what made you think that.
You are correct. I read that incorrectly. That's disappointing. That people are unsubbing them is much more reasonable now. :\
 
We promise to do better for all of you!

Let sum it all up by asking you directly:
How is "do better for all of you" going to look like henceforth? Are you going to play nice and ask people for permission before you do anything with anyone's phone number or whatever data?

Please be specific and I would suggest to have that reflected in an updated user agreement on your web site.


May I add that it is also unfair to other developers/dealers who do not expand their marketing outside the bounds of general etiquette and even law (where Europe is concerned).
After all it is - as others already expressed - not just about getting another unwanted text message but more about trust. I only want to do business with partners I feel that I can trust.

Also,

First off, we hope you all are enjoying the deals we have worked tirelessly to provide for everyone this Black Friday

if you want people to appreciate your work putting these deals together then this appreciation may not happen as bountiful as it could when the presentation of your work appears using questionable methods.
 
Most sale seasons I'm pretty laissez faire about it all - after all, I've signed up for emails. But, I've unsubscribed from half a dozen this Black Friday, whereas normally I don't unsubscribe at all.
I finally had enough this year too. I unsubscribed from most of the companies that regularly email me, leaving maybe 20% in place.

And yes, it took me all of a second or two to decide to type "STOP" after receiving the APD text.

Best,

Geoff
 
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