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2C Audio B2 or Perfect Storm 3.0

Heroix said:
hmmm... i guess i quite dont get it. so the balance up to max will just send a tail? i want to disable early reflections completely for some stuff.
Click to expand...

if you set the BALANCE to LATE, it's all "tail" from what i understand.

On the other end, AMB is all ER.

that's why it is so great as an insert.
 
I succumbed…

I played around with the demo version of Breeze 2.0 and the new Embertone piano and it was a real joy. I also like that you can use it as a special fx in stead of just as a "normal" reverb. I went for the whole package with all the expansions.
 
regarding "turning off ERs" here is something I wrote previously on that topic:

Regarding ER/LR balance in Breeze: there is not technically any way to
completely remove the ER's from Breeze as there is with Aether. However,
there are ways to minimize the perception of the ERs so much that there
electively becomes no ERs and the tail simply starts at full density.

To be considered an "ER" this particular aspect of the IR/sound should be
two things:

1) Early
2) A Reflection

This sounds sophomoric and maybe even condescending, i know, but it's an
important distinction, and we can use this info to achieve the goals we
are after here.

We can for example undo the "early aspect" simply by adding more
pre-delay. If we add say 100ms or more of Pre-Delay, we have absolutely
nothing happening in the first 100 to 150ms (depending on size and alg) of
the impulse response. Hence we don't have anything at all in the "early"
state of the reverb. "ERs" in this case would more be considered
"Echoes".

We can also minimize/obscure the "Reflection"/"Echo" aspect. A reflection
is a discrete echo or delay tap. To perceive a reflection as a
reflection, it must be distinct from the background. This means it must
be significantly louder than anything happening in the Impulse Response
say +/- at least a few milliseconds. So a single sample spike in the
impulse surrounded by 10ms of silence before and after the single sample
spike, would be a very good, or even ideal "reflection". If we have
several of these type of events in the first 150ms or so, this is
generally what we consider as "Early Reflections".

If on the other hand, the impulse response simply started at full density
white noise, where each sample value had a random value between -1.0 and
+1.0 (float) and then decayed exponentially, there would not be any
perception of "early reflections" at all. This would be more like a plate
verb -- or at least a reasonable approximation of one. In the first
1second there might technically be 44100 "reflections" -- one for each
sample at 44.1K SR, but they would be so close together that you would not
be able to perceive them as reflections and instead would hear this as a
single unified event.

So the way to minimize the perception of "reflections" is basically to
make the impulse response very dense. If you turn Breeze's Density
control to something close to +50-100% this will do the trick. If you use
Hall, and more-so Chamber, Plate, or Colored (special FX mode), alg modes,
this will make the response even more dense. For these modes you can also
use Density values of close to -100% to achieve similar results and this
will even undo any potential ripple/flutter in the early energy.

You can minimize the perception of strong "reflective energy" (even
diffuse energy) even more by using Negative Contour values. This will give
a slower attack envelope to the early energy.

If you combine all of the above, it will give you something like Aether's
"LR" engine. You basically won't have any ERs at all.

Now, there is one final trick in Breeze 2, and it is quite novel:

The mix/balance label is actually a switch between two different mix modes:

1) When the label shows "MIX", the numerical mix value simply shows a mix
between the completely dry signal and Breeze's normal wet output. This is
the standard setting, and this can be used on sends or inserts.

2) When the label shows "Balance" this is a "special feature mode", where
we apply spatialization to the DRY signal. This spatialization is
typically subtle, and happens instantly. You can think of it as early
reflections in some way, but for reasonable sizes it will happen so
quickly that you will not be able perceive any "Reflections" per say. It
is therefore better to think of it as "instant early energy" or
"Ambience", or simply instant spatial impression if you want to be
technical. The numerical value then becomes the balance control between
this instant invisible ambience, and the normal wet signal which can then
be considered more as late energy.

This works best with the Chamber modes, but it can also work well with
Hall modes if Size is kept at moderate values, as well as Plate at small
values. It can be used with Colored modes for special FX, but it is not
transparent in this case. I can be abused for various special FX also as I
am sure some people will figure out.

You should consider it a special features, and should not use it in every
case. Check the presets I made in the Simply Better expansion. I think
maybe 25% to 40% or so use it.

It is best used when using Breeze on an insert instead of a send. Since
Breeze is so efficient now this is a highly recommend way to use Breeze:
directly on tracks, and save the sends for Aether or B2.

Perceptually the effect of using this will be that it will instantly
recess the source sound back into the mix a little bit, so that lead
instruments and vocals don't feel like they are floating in front of the
mix or are detached from the imaginary sound stage. You can then use less
tail to achieve a similar same sense of space, thus keeping the mix
cleaner.

It can be used with low numerical values on lead vocals for example to
give them an instant sense of space and width while keeping them sounding
almost completely dry, without resorting to obvious chorus effects or
other tricks.

It's great to spatialize mono sources also. You can think of it as a way
to position sources on the virtual stage, or to randomize the position of
stereo mics in the space. Try loading multiple instances of the same
preset and apply them to different tracks. The result will have an
incredible sense of realism where each source will have its own space even
without panning, but with a unified tail gluing them into the same space.
Try the randomize button to get different variations.

So the Balance Mode can create an instant burst of "Early Energy", but
this will happen instantly with 0 pre-delay and it will be incredibly
dense and it will be quite short. Therefore it will not create the
perception of any "reflections" but instead will simply recess the source
sound back into the sound-field some. You can then think of this as an
advanced/modernize "ER engine" and if you combine this with techniques
above, with some extra pre-delay, you can effectively recreate things
quite similar to what you describe in Aether.
Click to expand...
 
unfortunately breeze 2 crashes on my ryzen hackintosh. when i insert the plugin logic pro x will just close. tried also on studio one and reaper. same thing :/
all other plugins i have (eventide, lexicon, relab, plugin alliance... and more) work without a problem on that machine, so my question is if you can do something here. if you cant i do understand, since it works just fine on windows.

sadly, iam working mostly on osx so if you cannot fix this i might be able to sell/trade the license with someone?

i really like breeze 2 alot, and it would be my goto reverb but i wont build an intel hackintish for it. the ryzen really just works fine on everything.

i have read you are using this new intel command set, so this might be the problem maybe? not sure if this can be removed in some "special version" or something.

please help @Andrew Souter :)

regards
 
>ryzen hackintosh

:confused: ?

This is the first time I've heard of such a thing? Is there a community of people using such machines?

How does that even work since Apple has never released any machines using AMD CPUs? We don't know much about Hackintoshes, and I have no idea what the interactions with various drivers etc are on an unsupported CPU running on OSX.

If you get crash logs, send them to us via email please, and maybe there is some kind of info that is helpful, but I can't really promise anything as this is a pretty alien machine :ninja: that is unsupported by Apple.

Of course if you run Win on it, I bet you should be fine. And we'd be able to test that.

wish I had better news...
 
Andrew Souter said:
>ryzen hackintosh

:confused: ?

This is the first time I've heard of such a thing? Is there a community of people using such machines?

How does that even work since Apple has never released any machines using AMD CPUs? We don't know much about Hackintoshes, and I have no idea what the interactions with various drivers etc are on an unsupported CPU running on OSX.

If you get crash logs, send them to us via email please, and maybe there is some kind of info that is helpful, but I can't really promise anything as this is a pretty alien machine :ninja: that is unsupported by Apple.

Of course if you run Win on it, I bet you should be fine. And we'd be able to test that.

wish I had better news...
Click to expand...

thx for the offered help :)

well, hackintosh is in general not supported by apple, and i guess even less is a ryzen then ;)

some clever guy made a custom ryzen kernel for osx, and it really works like a charm. its a little bit more complicated to setup compared to an intel system, but not that much. there is an amd osx community. if you google for amd osx you can quickly find it :)


breeze 2 is really the only plugin yet which crashes on that machine, and tomorrow i will check if i get some crash logs. breeze runs between fine on my intel based hackintosh laptop, so iam pretty sure its because of the ryzen.
 
Heroix said:
i have read you are using this new intel command set, so this might be the problem maybe? not sure if this can be removed in some "special version" or something.
Click to expand...

You mean "AVX-512" I suppose? We also provide "AVX-2", "AVX-1" and "SSE" versions already. There is code to detect your CPU and select the correct one to use for your system. Ryzen (on windows at least) should be able to use any of the last three -- just not "AVX-512"

It is possible the CPU-detection code doesn't recognize your CPU and tries to use an inappropriate version. Email us and we can tell you how to force it to try to use one of the earlier instruction sets.
 
Andrew Souter said:
You mean "AVX-512" I suppose? We also provide "AVX-2", "AVX-1" and "SSE" versions already. There is code to detect your CPU and select the correct one to use for your system. Ryzen (on windows at least) should be able to use any of the last three -- just not "AVX-512"

It is possible the CPU-detection code doesn't recognize your CPU and tries to use an inappropriate version. Email us and we can tell you how to force it to try to use one of the earlier instruction sets.
Click to expand...

great news. i think thats exactly the thing. it wont detect my cpu correctly and uses instructions the cpu simply doesnt have. should i write a support ticket on your homepage or write an email to which adress? oh and yes, breeze2 on ryzen/win 10 works.

thx btw... it would be soooo cool for me to get this running.
 
Heroix said:
oh, and that "mutant" outperforms quite alot of apple machines ;)
Click to expand...

I don't doubt that. Mac Pro's are long over due for an update. I am writing from one. And I am also about to build some new Win systems, but I will use Intel Skylake-X i9 Extreme Edition, and also some Xeons.

I even partially thought about trying to see if I could get OSX running on the Skylake i9. I have seen successful systems based on this. But this is a system that is almost identical to the iMac Pro in hardware, so it's more likely to work. I did not know anyone ever built an AMD hackintosh. That seems much more risky since there is no existing Mac similar to this.

AMD is definitely bring back some competition into the market though, and that's a good thing for progress. I'm excited to see what Intel does next.
 
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Andrew Souter said:
I don't doubt that. Mac Pro's are long over due for an update. I am writing from one. And I am also about to build some new Win systems, but I will use Intel Skylake-X i9 Extreme Edition, and also some Xeons.

I even partially thought about trying to see if I could get OSX running on the Skylake i9. I have seen successful systems based on this. But this is a system that is almost identical to the iMac Pro in hardware, so it's more likely to work. I did not know anyone ever built an AMD hackintosh. That seems much more risky since there is no existing Mac similar to this.

AMD is definitely bring back some competition into the market though, and that's a good thing for progress.
Click to expand...

osx/hackintosh will run just fine on the skylake i9. cpu doesnt really matter too much. more important is the right mainboard. Asus ROG Rampage VI Apex Intel X299 for example works like a charm except for wlan.

i sold my mac pro 5.1 between and never looked back. had a skylake hackintosh aswell but went with ryzen now. :)

actually you can get most x299 boards to work and hackintosh is really a good option. it might take a bit of work if you are no too experienced with it, but there are a couple of good community forums which will help you.

edit: thx for the email. i will try it tomorrow. iam not on the ryzen machine right now. iam gonna report back.
 
gotta report that nothing helps. tried everything you suggested. ryzen isnt the best option for hackintosh. also i used cubase for the first time today on ryzen/osx and it crashes once i enable control room. very annoying, and iam gonna build an intel system again ;)

thx for the help though.
 
sorry to hear there's no luck with ryzen hackintosh. I'm not completely surprised though as the CPU detection code depends on the OS for some things, and if OSX has no knowledge of Ryzen, well, seems highly unlikely to work.

I'm a big fan of Intel Skylake-X 7xxx series (or Xeon W, if you prefer, but they are basically almost the same thing):

https://ark.intel.com/products/series/123588/Intel-Core-X-series-Processors

These are the fastest current CPUs for our products.

I loaded >1000 Breeze 2 instances on the 8 core version from this series! I am currently setting up a system with the 18-core variant! Intel even demo'd a 28-core monster recently for potential release later this year.

Breeze and all of our future products/updates will be able to use AVX-512, which is quite speedy!
 
Andrew Souter said:
sorry to hear there's no luck with ryzen hackintosh. I'm not completely surprised though as the CPU detection code depends on the OS for some things, and if OSX has no knowledge of Ryzen, well, seems highly unlikely to work.

I'm a big fan of Intel Skylake-X 7xxx series (or Xeon W, if you prefer, but they are basically almost the same thing):

https://ark.intel.com/products/series/123588/Intel-Core-X-series-Processors

These are the fastest current CPUs for our products.

I loaded >1000 Breeze 2 instances on the 8 core version from this series! I am currently setting up a system with the 18-core variant! Intel even demo'd a 28-core monster recently for potential release later this year.

Breeze and all of our future products/updates will be able to use AVX-512, which is quite speedy!
Click to expand...

i tried between the b2 demo and it works just fine on my hackintosh. i tried to the the dylib from b2 and put it in the breeze folder, but it sadly doesnt work. i also heard there was a NOAVX version for b2. is there something like this maybe for breeze 2.0?

iam really sad a bit since i like breeze ALOT and its really the only plugin which doesnt work on my ryzen :/

ofcourse not your fault.
 
Last year I bought in an extreme rush of GAS the Perfect Storm. And I don‘t regret it. It‘s top quality.
 
I'm a happy owner of both Breeze 2.1 (just purchased ) and B2 . At first , for whatever reason , I was turned off by the sound of the breeze 2 demo for whatever reason when I tried it a while back . I decided to try it again yesterday with fresh ears and was immediately immersed in using it and finding to be versatile and a very clean sounding reverb with great depth giving it a rich sound. It's simple , easy to dial in your sound , resizeable which is beyond awesome , able to get in to the eq and damp settings for very detailed precision . It would be great to see a tempo sync or sidechain feature in the future , but I somehow can't help but think that it may compromise it's great CPU usage. Well done Andrew!
 
@Andrew Souter , you mentioned earlier in the thread that “In Breeze 2, the Classic Modes still have this degree of natural pre-delay, to maintain preset compatibility with 1.0.”

I haven’t had time to read through the whole thread, but I’m a massive fan of Breeze and B2... it looks like Breeze has undergone a fundamental rewrite, so this caught my eye… I want to be sure that existing projects using Breeze would recall and sound the same before upgrading to Breeze 2?

Thanks! Can’t say enough good stuff about your products… I think I own every software reverb known to man and these two are consistently my favorites!
 
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