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Give Spitfire a chance? Or not?... Samplecast review now LIVE

Do you think 'full of worms' might be a bit of an exaggeration? Do you own the product yourself?

The words 'bandwagon' and 'jumping' do kinda spring to mind on this thread.
IF it is full of worms...
was not saying that it is. And don't take everything literally - it may well be small bugs, no problem with that (to keep the animal thing going o_O )
 
Insert eye roll here.

It amazes me that an advocate for good and useable software, a guy who took a lot of money out of his own pocket and spent over five hours running through a new library in a live stream, showing both its weaknesses and strengths to help the rest of us decide whether or not we want to spend six hundred or more fucking dollars of our hard-earned money on that library gets vilified by a bunch of Hans Zimmer and Spitfire fanboys because he had concerns that Spitfire had abandoned Kontakt and was critical of the new engine. I mean, Jesus Christ, people, it's a sample library, not a gift from God. If it has problems, it has problems. Pointing them out does not make the messenger a villain.

I don't know Daniel James. I've seen a few of his videos and have been impressed by his work, that's about it. So the only dog I have in this ridiculous schoolyard brawl is my wallet. I was initially impressed by Spitfire's walkthroughs of this product. But my first inclination when I see a thread like this—especially when the OP (an alleged reviewer) wonders whether or not he should review an apparently flawed product (I mean, WTF?)—is snap that wallet shut and wait. Let the fanboys sacrifice their green gifts to their God. I'll hang back until the dust clears and see if I can find another honest review before I make my final decision.

Business 101. The customer is always right. You don't come on a public forum and blast someone because he complained about your product.

Wanted to say the exact thing but could not have said it better. Bravo!
 
I also understand Reuben's position and the position he has put himself in this debate, but feel like if he is serious about reviewing these products for us, he has to maintain integrity to his initial opinion on it.
Checking if its OK to post his review here first, so as not to ruffle many feathers, has weakened that opinion for me a bit. Don't get me wrong, I do watch most of Reuben's shows I appreciate and agree with a lot of reviews, but stick to your guns man, I want to hear your thoughts! :2thumbs:

As I've stated a few times on this thread, the question is not whether or not I review the product in an unbiased way with integrity, of course that will happen. The question is rather, what sort of review is most useful to people in the long term... pre or post bug-fixing? Of course, this initial germ of a question has long since been forgotten in 11 pages of strong opinons / emotions about everything from Spitfire to Screwdrivers. This is VI Control after all, and I wouldn't have it any other way.
 
As I've stated a few times on this thread, the question is not whether or not I review the product in an unbiased way with integrity, of course that will happen. The question is rather, what sort of review is most useful to people in the long term... pre or post bug-fixing? Of course, this initial germ of a question has long since been forgotten in 11 pages of strong opinons / emotions about everything from Spitfire to Screwdrivers. This is VI Control after all, and I wouldn't have it any other way.

Its certainly been a crazy few days here! Fair point, and I look forward to watching your review.
 
This question alone has saved me $600.

That's cool!

while Mr. Thompson has made me never want to buy a spitfire product again

Got it the first time!

the only dog I have in this ridiculous schoolyard brawl is my wallet

Hmmm okay...

is snap that wallet shut and wait

This is getting a bit repetitive repetitive repetitive repetitive

Dude, why are you even commenting?

You should listen to yourself sometimes. :)

Business 101. The customer is always right

What's next? Are you giving us the classic "I pay your salary, respect my authoritah" nonsense too? :rofl: The level of entitlement here...
 
Speaking on a strictly personal point of view I for one think that it would be kind of a waste of very nice Reuben's abilities in reviewing a product, knowing it's got some "first public release" bug which is going to be fixed (or it's already fixed) in a matter of days.

As a potential purchaser (speaking in general) I'd happily wait just a few days so I can see reviewed the product I'm gonna buy and not one who had a short (and maybe problematic) life and it's gone. It's just more useful to me as a user :)
 
The bottom line is a guy bought this library, and feels it is not what was advertised, and is not entirely happy with it, and is sharing his opinion here.

I know it can take a while to learn the nuances of a library, how to perform it in correctly, sweet spots and each has its own quirks etc...
But that being said.... if I had a gig on, 24 hours to turn it around, client wanted 'Zimmer', and I shilled out for this library either through impulse or marketing or otherwise, I'd be pissed if it took more than 5 hours for me to figure out how to use it with a deadline looming,
Again that's why it's so important to rtfm. After roughly 15 minutes you're good to go!
 
Even with your casual "first look" format, I think you should show some professional courtesy and put a little effort in it, otherwise you will be just another kid on Youtube banging keys and making fart jokes.

Hey, my fart joke was meant to relieve some tension in this "debate."
Although, I suppose I do act like a kid sometimes. Don't we all?

When it comes to Reuben, I really don't think he is biased. The very fact that they made a post admitting all of these flaws with the engine kind of proves it. We're grasping at straws and shadows with that one. Now, whether or not someone should receive a free copy for a review, that is up for debate. But simply receiving it doesn't make one biased --just as not receiving one doesn't make one automatically biased either (in the negative towards the library). I think all persectives should be welcome. So it does put me a bit off when I see the big guys from the development team come on here and rail against certain people. It's a bit off-pudding. As a very small developer myself, if I had a problem with someone and how they represented one of my products, I would privately message them. It wouldn't matter how big I was, either. It just appears a bit unprofessional. Publicly telling a paid customer that they're opinion is "nonsense." Come on. I'm waiting from one of them to come on and tell me about how hard they worked on it and how passionate they are. I get it, I understand. I'm also passionate. That's just not an excuse.
 
As I've stated a few times on this thread, the question is not whether or not I review the product in an unbiased way with integrity, of course that will happen. The question is rather, what sort of review is most useful to people in the long term... pre or post bug-fixing?
Asking the question alone puts your judgment in a bad light. You review the product as released. If you have a pre-release product, you state that up front. If I were to do a review of, say, 8Dio's Adagietto, I'd have to point out that it has mistuned samples and clicks and annoying quacks that need to be addressed in an update. Unfortunately, a couple years later and those problems have never been addressed. Just because a developer says they're going to fix it (no matter who they are), doesn't mean it's going to happen. So, if you value your integrity as a reviewer, you do the review, warts and all, and let the consumer decide whether those warts matter. Your customer is either the end user or the developer. It can't be both.

All of this could easily be mitigated if the developer in question released demos of their products or allowed refunds or resales. But this one doesn't.
 
As I've stated a few times on this thread, the question is not whether or not I review the product in an unbiased way with integrity, of course that will happen. The question is rather, what sort of review is most useful to people in the long term... pre or post bug-fixing? Of course, this initial germ of a question has long since been forgotten in 11 pages of strong opinons / emotions about everything from Spitfire to Screwdrivers. This is VI Control after all, and I wouldn't have it any other way.

Come one do the fucking review, man. Do you want to be taken as independent honest reviewer? So whats the fucking problem then? Paul said that there is no problem. So whats the hold?:shocked::grin:
 
Asking the question alone puts your judgment in a bad light. You review the product as released. If you have a pre-release product, you state that up front. If I were to do a review of, say, 8Dio's Adagietto, I'd have to point out that it has mistuned samples and clicks and annoying quacks that need to be addressed in an update. Unfortunately, a couple years later and those problems have never been addressed. Just because a developer says they're going to fix it (no matter who they are), doesn't mean it's going to happen. So, if you value your integrity as a reviewer, you do the review, warts and all, and let the consumer decide whether those warts matter. Your customer is either the end user or the developer. It can't be both.

All of this could easily be mitigated if the developer in question released demos of their products or allowed refunds or resales. But this one doesn't.
I agree, especially since I've never see any other "Give (fill in the developer's name) a chance?" threads. If these kinds of threads have been created for other libraries in the same boat, it might make a little more sense to ask the question.
 
How useful will a review be in a years time that just talks about a bunch bugs that don’t exist anymore?
Very useful if those bugs are never properly addressed. Especially if the end user is spending a LOT of money with no chance of a refund. The review can always be updated when the updates are done by Spitfire.
 
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Just wait.

How useful will a review be in a years time that just talks about a bunch bugs that don’t exist anymore?
It will actually do a lot of good for Spitfire, because It will show that they cared enough to sort the bugs out. THAT is what excellent customer service is. Besides, reviews should be an accurate representation of a product in the now.
 
As I've stated a few times on this thread, the question is not whether or not I review the product in an unbiased way with integrity, of course that will happen. The question is rather, what sort of review is most useful to people in the long term... pre or post bug-fixing?

But the title of the thread is "give spitfire a chance or not". Not "which version would you like me to review". The very basis of your initial question is directed to whether or not you should give the developer a chance to improve and/or fix their product before your review.
 
@reutunes I mean even if your review reveals that the library sucks major balls at its current state with some patches...man, and? Does that make spitfire a bad company, no. The guys having good marketing intentions but it tells me in the future to consider your reviewing. So whats the deal? I am not a reviewer, god thank you I have no deal with doing that, it would get headdaches when I go and read this here all. What a kindergarten bullshit at least in my opinion. I mean even opening a thread for that. boy..
 
For me, I'm unwatching this and all other HZS-related threads, as it has now for some time been cycling. For those whose interest and patience with the ad hominem stuff has run out,, like mine, I can summarise below. So, here's (my own personal view of) what we learned (if it doesn't match yours that's ok, it doesn't mean I called your mum a whore):

Pros about the library:
  • Some great sounds, new articulations not available in other libraries (particularly the quiet ones, where 60 cellists, or 344 players total give you artifact sounds not otherwise possible); lush, smooth sounds, and great low end.
  • Unparalled amount of mic positions, gives exceptional control over the sound
  • GUI looks beautiful; larger than Kontakt and resizable.
  • Already some great demos about what this library can do (eg Ashton Gleckman)
  • Represents where Hans feels his legacy is: diverse and eclectic
  • Not your average library: needs time to learn how to get the best from it, but repays patience.
  • Exactly what some people have been waiting for: lots of highly satisfied customers
Cons about the library (and suggested/ongoing fixes):
  • Legatos need fixing (fix promised from SA imminently)
  • Small percentage experiencing show-stopper problems (can't run more than a few notes, if at all), particularly it seems on Win10 machines (SA support aware and working with individual customers)
  • Not enough shorts (possible expansion set in early discussion between Paul & Hans)
  • Not enough differentiation to other libraries: direct comparison suggests to some that combination of Albion One/Tundra, and a few other libraries (eg Ark1 or LASS) typically already on people's hard drives come VERY close to reproducing the sound (more direct comparisons needed by reviewers, not just rubber-stamping overviews)
  • Won't meet your expectations if you were hoping for loud, epic, bombastic; look to other libraries for this
  • Lots of dead space on the GUI: requires lots of scrolling through mic positions & articulations (suggested to have a basic/advanced view as with other Spitfire products)
  • Inconsistent articulations across sections
  • Differentiation in function of new engine from Kontakt seems insufficient to warrant the change in workflow that moving away from Kontakt involves (for some): what else does it bring that justifies the departure (SA may reasonably justify this in terms of licensing to NI - fair enough)
To me, I've learned about as much as I'm going to learn from these threads about the library, and I'm grateful to all who shared the knowledge, and helped me and others, make our decision, whatever that may be.

What is a complete turn-off is the tribalism I see on here: some people seem hell bent on opposing either Spitfire, or Daniel, based presumably on prior grudges which now seemingly clouds their every discussion. Spitfire are clearly a genuine, honest company, trying to make a world-class business out of making the best tools available to the community, based on what they, as composers, feel will most suit their needs. They have engaged the best talent in the industry to help them do so, and they use clever, entertaining and effective marketing strategies to generate maximum interest in their products. They are fully engaged with their customers, and seem to be doing their best to fix the problems as soon as possible.

Daniel is one guy, whose video was useful, entertaining and informative, who seems to have had the intention of providing an honest first look, which was highly requested and anticipated by many who value his opinion prior to launch. Obviously there's some history between Daniel and Spitfire, and this getting aired in public is a little unseemly, but my own personal opinion was despite any history, he set out to give it an honest review, was genuinely positive about the things he liked, and courageously critical about the things he didn't. If you don't agree with him, he will happily debate it with you; there is no need to question his intentions.

For me, part of the problem is that people are forced to weight such opinions more than they would otherwise need to, because Spitfire do not allow trial demo periods (in which case everyone could have reviewed it themselves) or license transfers (in which case a high-priced product was less of a risk without relying on the reviews of early-adopters like Daniel). I have confidence that Spitfire will address the initial bugs (and Daniel was right to point them out), and hope they consider the larger point about trial demos/license transfers, to offset the risk that result following negative publicity when neither of these mitigating factors are allowed.

Ok, so again, I think personally I've learned everything I can from these threads, and am now checking out.

Who want's my popcorn?
 
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