Simpsons Composer Alf Clausen fired.

[gsilbers]

Right... lower costs. They "need" to do that. Fuck them. It is the typical corporate bullshit. It is NEVER low enough.

Funny, I work for a huge corporation and we had a big meeting one time where this asshole told us there was going to be a "reduction in force". He said it smugly and added, "the numbers aren't right, so, not a big deal... it's nothing personal." So, because we had a month and a half of slow business they got rid of several people. A few months later they needed the people they got rid of back, but, hahaha, not one of them would come back. This guy was later part of another "reduction in force" in some beautiful poetic justice.

The show really does suck now anyway. I hope Alf enjoys retirement or finds something else if that is what he wants. One thing we agree on is that Alf is a great composer.

no comment here. I agree but that's the nature of free market place.. or otherwise be called socialist communist etc and live in an overreaching country. that free market place is what might broght us the show in 1st place. def not an easy topic and of course there is a middle ground but share holders are also investing heavily on these corporations etc etc. its like if they hired you to do a score for a movie but only can get union players but you don't get union compensation and you cant bargain so you only get very little payment for a lot of work. once you start putting caps on what poelpe can spend or not or what things should be fair.. it gets dicey.
but yeah there could be other fat cutting measures. they already animate in korea and im guessing that orville show wasn't cheap either. but maybe its just me but I kind outgrew that whole mentality of "They" vs "us" and that corporations suck and all of those idealist ways of my twenties. these type of capitalist topics have been going on for a long time and there are a ton of view points and pros and cons. fox employs tons of people worldwide and has thousands of vendors and each of those vendors have dozens of people. people who have to pay for mortgages, kids afterschool and so on. so those people have to rely on these corporations for jobs but at the same time those corporations need to be competitive in a global market. and if too many employees or don't get paid well or treated bad then they will go to the competition and talent runs away damaging the company. so its a fine balance of trying to cut $ and at the same time keeping everyone happy, shareholders and employees happy. so getting rid of alf, might be like a blow to composers.. it might save dozens of other jobs..... or... or... give all the money to seth mcfarlen and his orville show. who knows... again.. we don't know. but to reiterate so I don't sound like an evil corporate guy with not soul.. I do wish they kept alf and give him the change to reture when he wanted and I wish more shows used orchestras. hey.. maybe if instead of writing in random forums about how you "feel" we should google who is your congressman and start demanding better and more rules to keep more orchestras or live musicians in productions. OR something similar. or find better ways to make that view happen... cuz sharing in forums and social media is fine.. but doenst get you anything.

 

[Richard Wilkinson]

From what I've heard, it's a cost decision not a stylistic one. And the person/team who won the gig did so by undercutting Alf. Could be wrong, of course but it wouldn't surprise me at all.

The follow up statement by the producers is a strange one too - Alf still 'part of the team' in some capacity. Whatever that means...

 

[Zhao Shen]

They said they wanted to cut costs. Does that mean they're turning to samples? If that's the case, I pity the poor soul who's going to have to try and fill Clausen's shoes with pure VST...

 

[tack]

What if they hired Andy Blaney? What would we say then?

 

[patrick76]

no comment here. I agree but that's the nature of free market place.. or otherwise be called socialist communist etc and live in an overreaching country. that free market place is what might broght us the show in 1st place. def not an easy topic and of course there is a middle ground but share holders are also investing heavily on these corporations etc etc. its like if they hired you to do a score for a movie but only can get union

Hey, I hope my previous reply didn't come across as aggressive toward you, because it was just meant toward the situation. Apologies if it did.

Interestingly enough, as I get older I find myself liking a lot of these big companies less and less. Perhaps you were more idealistic in your twenties than I was

 

[Aquatone]

There could be a less nefarious reason. Dell Hake, who recently passed away, was the orchestrator for many many years. Sometimes, a disturbance in a successful "team" can make folks more inclined to look for a new direction. BUT, that is purely speculation on my part. Got to hand it to the Simpsons producers for keeping the live orchestra for pretty much the whole run.

 

[will_m]

so? its a business. not a government. they need to lower costs and maybe alf has pension and other benefits plus all the other expenses. who knows. And if the rating dip or if there are complaints then they bring back the orchestra or score some live instruments. if the main producer wants live orchestra they will do it if its in the budget and has enough pull. but not many TV shows do that anymore. actually.. I don't think there is many shows left where its only orchestra except family guy and American dad. maybe with getting rid of him and orchestras for that shows enables fox to pay for the other 60+shows they have and 60+ composers and musicians. again, who the F knows. I trry to focus on Alf having been a great composer. having made some of the most iconic music ever wll known around the world.
Also, what did you think was going to happen if WE ALL keep buying the best and most realistic sample libraries and post and post here on how to make them sound more and more real? and then what,? try to convince a producer that a real orchestra sounds better and spend 10+ more when the mockup+ 1 live instrument "works" for them and they keep getting composers who can deliver great sounding scores with a few live instruments. Im not sure who are trying to fool here or the passionate romanticism of keeping the orchestra alive and then buying spitfires libraries. and that tv shows and companies SHOULD have orchestras and music SHOULD sound a specific way. I sure would like to know that tv shows and movies all use orchestras and would like a whole bunch of other things but entertainment biz sometimes gets too much out of wack with passion for specific things. but I don't see anyone cry fowl for the thousands of people that have been laidoff by fox, warner, sony, universal in the past 2 years. for reasons even more petty. but hey, im not saying kill the orchestra, and we are all in the same page that they sound better than a mockup.. but as everthing else, its part of something bigger, and things change, and if you are the 1% of composers who is writing normally for big features with huge orchestras then kudos to you and hope it grows.

Honestly not sure what you're trying to say here, I'm not trying to "fool" anyone. I can own sample libraries and still like to see productions have live players. When there is no budget for live I use samples, when there is budget, its nice to use live, that's all I'm saying.

My main point was that if a show like the Simpsons can't justify live orchestra then what chance do other shows have? I don't see why its "passionate romanticism" to want to keep the orchestra in a show that has it from the start. Its just a matter of quality. This is all speculation anyway though until they announce a replacement, maybe FOX do just want a change of style.

 

[gsilbers]

Hey, I hope my previous reply didn't come across as aggressive toward you, because it was just meant toward the situation. Apologies if it did.

Interestingly enough, as I get older I find myself liking a lot of these big companies less and less. Perhaps you were more idealistic in your twenties than I was

Lol no no. That was my initial thing. No arguments in what you said . I do agree it's just not an easy topic . I do think big companies nowadays have way too much power and I think it will get worst as the big tech companies take over and for example they could lobby congress to take away any sort of royalties rules and screw us. Yet they provide tons of new futuristic internet tech stuff.
I Didn't want to come across as fisty.

 

[gsilbers]

Honestly not sure what you're trying to say here, I'm not trying to "fool" anyone. I can own sample libraries and still like to see productions have live players. When there is no budget for live I use samples, when there is budget, its nice to use live, that's all I'm saying.

My main point was that if a show like the Simpsons can't justify live orchestra then what chance do other shows have? I don't see why its "passionate romanticism" to want to keep the orchestra in a show that has it from the start. Its just a matter of quality. This is all speculation anyway though until they announce a replacement, maybe FOX do just want a change of style.

I actually DO want the same thing. Sadly it's a business and they made that decision.

The samples have been disrupting live orchestras for a while and even though we all mean well, we buy them and create good sounding music at the same time producers and studios figure out that its "good enough" at a much lower cost, and hopefully it doesn't spill over to movies since theatrical is doing very badly.
But even with cinesamples trying to get with the union and all that got the short hand as players don't want to sample as it obviously cuts its future jobs. And that's kind of what's at the heart of this. Technology disruptions. Because I could guess that technology desruptions is what's getting fox and other studios to cut down on orchestras and someone like alf as they see theatrical sales go down and their "clients" starting to make much better shows at lower costs.
Si no, I'm not blaming you or anyone just want to expand a little more about this. Everyone just wants to jump to the title topic and express the obvious opinion based on a few facts. Not that I know more or anything but if we are going to go with opinions im sure I'll try to expand on mine and try to open to more viewpoints and try not to the beat a dead horse thing and while at it maybe we can talk about this biz situation thing.
The samples vs live in tv has already been decided. Most if not all tv shows go with mostly samples and record some live instruments. It used to be that it sounded "synthetic" which I think was that ewql era. But after the Hollywood strings, cinesamples and spitfire it's not been talked a lot of creating a score that doesn't sound "synthetic" so I think we have been developing our chops and samples for such a long time now that I think most people here could rescore the first five episodes of the Simpsons with samples and no one would tell the difference.
So maybe the statement should be are we uncounciously fooling ourselves about this whole orchestra vs samples thing?
We fall in love being in front of a conductors podium in front of musicians and getting that rush and then seeing it sound great when mixed against picture when all along the average joe could have been emotionally moved by good midi programming? Kind of like what happened when MP3s came along ? Just random thoughts.. my god I do ramble and sound confrontational!
I do still think it's nice to keep a live orchestra in shows and help musicians as that helps culture overall. Not to mention sound better.

 

[rgames]

The samples have been disrupting live orchestras for a while

Are you sure? That certainly could be the case but I haven't seen anything that confirms the suspicion.

My hunch is that samples haven't replaced much - it seems like there are the same number of top-tier composers working film/TV with live musicians as there have been for the last 50 years or so. Actually I'd say there are slightly more nowadays.

What I think has happened is that there are a bunch of lower-tier productions making use of samples and VIs. They haven't replaced anything, those productions just didn't exist before. Think about it: how much film/TV is there nowadays compared to 50 years ago? A lot more, and that growth is where samples/VIs are being used. I don't think they're replacing what was already there.

But, as I said, I don't actually know. Just a hunch that is an alternate explanation.

Do we have any indication that whoever replaces Clausen will NOT use live musicians?

rgames

 

[will_m]

Do we have any indication that whoever replaces Clausen will NOT use live musicians?
rgames

Just the speculation in the original article, based on some information about Fox looking to cut the shows budget.

There's a new press release from the producers stating that Alf will still have an ongoing role in the show (whatever that means) and that “We remain committed to the finest in music for the Simpsons, absolutely including orchestral".

Again not sure if that means orchestral in style or in relation to using live orchestra.

 

[dannymc]

Just the speculation in the original article, based on some information about Fox looking to cut the shows budget.

There's a new press release from the producers stating that Alf will still have an ongoing role in the show (whatever that means) and that “We remain committed to the finest in music for the Simpsons, absolutely including orchestral".

Again not sure if that means orchestral in style or in relation to using live orchestra.

who knows. anyway as someone said earlier, the simpsons stopped being funny about 10 years ago when they failed to continue to pay their best comedy writers well and they all left. they've been dumbing the show down ever since. the best thing they could do now is just wind the show up in the next couple of years and only re-run the classic episodes. "Mono-rail anyone"

Danny

 

[LamaRose]

Blatant discrimination against an Alien Life Form... hope he has enough bread to get back to his home planet.

 

[Richard Wilkinson]

He said on twitter the 35 musicians who record the score every week have also been let go, so that makes me question whether they're even going to bother with live players going forward...

 

[windshore]

Yes, there is concrete evidence that samples have replaced musicians. The number of full-time studio players in LA is down dramatically in the last 20 years. That's part of the reason the LA local sold their property in Hollywood and why the pension is close to bankrupt. The commercial studios that used to do live recordings for film and TV are not working that steadily and a large number have closed. It seems pretty obvious if you have been working in the industry the last 20 years.

 

[rgames]

Yes, there is concrete evidence that samples have replaced musicians. The number of full-time studio players in LA is down dramatically in the last 20 years. That's part of the reason the LA local sold their property in Hollywood and why the pension is close to bankrupt. The commercial studios that used to do live recordings for film and TV are not working that steadily and a large number have closed. It seems pretty obvious if you have been working in the industry the last 20 years.

That's just LA.

Seems like business elsewhere, especially in Europe, has really picked up. A lot of LA composers record in Europe, so that could explain the reduction in business in LA. They're still recording live, just not as much in LA.

rgames

 

[windshore]

That's just LA.

Seems like business elsewhere, especially in Europe, has really picked up. A lot of LA composers record in Europe, so that could explain the reduction in business in LA. They're still recording live, just not as much in LA.

rgames

Not Just LA. Perhaps the USA. The actual number of TV shows that use live players is way down overall. Many shows today have "all in" contracts that specifically forbid union work. The production schedule and music demands require orchestral-like sound tracks but don't provide time or budget to do it live. Most of us who have shows do it by ourselves - as in one man - making all the soundtrack for a series with only an occasional outside musician being hired. In the early 90's all cartoons for instance, were done with live players... something like 30-90 players each. Now outside of one (Family Guy, maybe there's another...) they are all done in the box. One composer might do 3 shows. That means one guy does what used to take over a hundred.

Film scores may in general use more musicians than TV but often even the best soundtracks include at least some sampled content. Trailer music now is so hyperbolic you would have a hard time competing if you just used real players... or your budget would be so out of line with what would be paid, you'd take a loss.

 

[JohnG]

there is concrete evidence that samples have replaced musicians. The number of full-time studio players in LA is down dramatically in the last 20 years

It's the union, not the samples.

It's a long story, but the musicians' union has relentlessly and vigorously fought rule changes that would keep live music in LA and the US generally. It's appalling. The union today is run on behalf of about 300 of the old guard, and to the devil with the rest.

 

[rgames]

In the early 90's all cartoons for instance, were done with live players... something like 30-90 players each. Now outside of one (Family Guy, maybe there's another...) they are all done in the box.

Yeah, but there were no video game soundtracks recorded with live players in the early 90s. Now there are a bunch. And the size of the video game market dwarfs the film market.

I'm not saying you're wrong. I'm just saying there are plenty of alternate explanations where what you're saying is true while still allowing for the same amount of dependence (or more) on live players these days. Someone would have to go collect some data to say for sure.

I agree that it seems like LA has seen a significant reduction in dependence on live players. But the market as a whole might not have seen the same reduction. Maybe LA is the new Detroit: there aren't fewer cars on the road these days even though Detroit's contribution to automobile production is nothing like it was.

rgames

 

[erica-grace]

What if they hired Andy Blaney? What would we say then?

Andy Blaney is one talented bloke. What he does with samples is brilliant. But there is NO WAY he would ever be able to pull off anywhere near the quality we have grown accustomed to hearing from him with TV deadline.

So, who is this "composer we all know?"