What's new

24 HOURS REMAIN: 67% off Palette Symphonic Sketchpad

So according to your "logic", all sketch libraries have no purpose of existence! Because you can always add the instruments you want, and balance them in the mixer. Something is terrible wrong with your logic here...
I am confused now.
Even in a "sketching" library you can't get around the fine-tuning.

I don't know what you expect from a library, but I don't think there is anything like that.
Generally the term is a bit overrated, because there are people who have become popstars with a casio calculator sound.

It depends on what you do with the tools, not them with you!
 
The tools dominate what we do with them : )

I wish there were more discussions about the music someone did without so much hustle about the tools.
But ok, I know where we are here.

I'm tempted with the palette deal, though I don't need it.
 
I am confused now.
Even in a "sketching" library you can't get around the fine-tuning.

I don't know what you expect from a library, but I don't think there is anything like that.
Generally the term is a bit overrated, because there are people who have become popstars with a casio calculator sound.

It depends on what you do with the tools, not them with you!

Based on earlier Thread comments .... fair to assume that TO-Complete & Palette-Symphonic Sketchpad are sufficiently 'complementary' to easily justify both in toolbox.
Remaining issue here is; need for which /all RRA Expansions ?
 
Feels better if Palette-Symphonic Sketchpad is 'alone' quite comparable to TO-Complete. ;)
It's hard for me to compare the two. At least with me they fulfill a very different purpose in the way I use them.
The limitation to a string or brass ensemble without sections takes getting used to. That doesn't bother me as much with woodwinds. But I can work with it.

It offers a lot, you don't have to use everything. The hand percussions are good and the piano fulfils its purpose.

What's not there, like legato or solo instruments for example, come from another library.

Better or worse ... neither. Different.
... Palette will find its place just like the other tools.
 
Based on earlier Thread comments .... fair to assume that TO-Complete & Palette-Symphonic Sketchpad are sufficiently 'complementary' to easily justify both in toolbox.
Remaining issue here is; need for which /all RRA Expansions ?
I am interested in the Runs & Arps, that would be a nice addition for me.
The rest for various reasons not so much, but if the price is attractive I would want to complement the package already.
It is then a fairly complete lib with the same sound.
But I like to mix different librarys if I can get them together somehow in terms of the room.
 
Based on earlier Thread comments .... fair to assume that TO-Complete & Palette-Symphonic Sketchpad are sufficiently 'complementary' to easily justify both in toolbox.
Remaining issue here is; need for which /all RRA Expansions ?

I got melodics for certain individual sections and colors, solo instruments and legato.
 
@Shiirai and @AndyP

OK for some reason my English failed and it's all getting confusing! So I will trust Steinberg's (and ProjectSam's) English more than mine. Here is what I meant:

"Iconica Ensembles includes a range of cinematic-style presets, which are carefully-crafted ensembles of different instruments. Designed to help you generate new ideas and meet short deadlines." Examples:

- Adventure Kit (Horns, Trumpets 8va / Low Strings Spiccato)
- Call To Arms (Oboe, Piccolo / Celli, Violas / Tuba, Basses, Snare)
- Cartoon Orchestra (Full Woodwinds, Xylophone, Marimba, Timpani")
- Dark Lines (Basses, Contra Bassoon, Celli 8va, Bass Clarinet 8va)
- Fairytale (Violins Trills, Flute Trills, Clarinet Trills, Chimes / Celli, Horn)
- Pirates (Low Strings, Horns, Trombones, Tuba, Timpani)
- Situation Room (Celli, Violas / Basses, Contra Basson, Bassoon 8va,Bass Clarinet 8va)
- Soaring Strings (1st Violins 8va, 2nd Violins / Low Strings)

So you select only one "instrument" and you have this "ready-to-use mixed orchestra patch". Symphobia has a similar feature:

"Symphobia is not your traditional orchestral sample library. Instead of focusing on individual multi-samples, Symphobia offers ensemble multi-samples in numerous arrangements for orchestral sections as well as a full orchestra performing together. The reason is simple: the real thing sounds so much more powerful."

Albions do the same, ProjectSam's Orchestral Essentials, Sonuscore the Orchestra, even Garritan's Instant Orchestra. They offer many choices of ready-to-use, recorded-together, mixed-orchestra patches. AndyP, I think Symphobia has them under the "Action", "Suspense", "Drama", etc. folders.

As Andy sarcastically said, you can do it on your own, it's not rocket science. Add the sections you want and balance them, mix them, pan them as you please! And my reply is: if I am going to do it on my own (well, sometimes I enjoy it!), then why bother buying a sketch orchestra? Why don't we extend this "logic", this "argument", to include full strings or full brass? I can open my Play 6, and create a multi/ensemble of 1st violins + 2nd violins + violas + chelli + basses! In less than 10 minutes it's ready!

My reply for this is simple: I trust the professionals of ProjectSam or Spitfire or Steinberg or Red Room Audio for all this work, to offer me full and mixed ensembles, of musicians recorded playing together at the same time brass + strings + woodwinds (or other combinations)! Otherwise why bother buying a sketch library?

And about the definition of Sketch Library: I suppose the more simplified one would be that it is a library that instead of focusing on solo instruments and/or small sections of instruments, it focuses on full ensembles of strings, brass, woodwinds and - for me - full mixed orchestra, exactly like the examples above!

That's the only think that - for me - is missing from Palette! (I repeat all these thoughts are mainly for the full $300 price)
 
Last edited:
@Shiirai and @AndyP
As Andy sarcastically said, you can do it on your own, it's not rocket science. Add the sections you want and balance them, mix them, pan them as you please!
My answer was not meant to be sarcastic at all. If that is how you perceived it, that was not my intention.

I'd distance myself from the term "sketchlibrary", because I think it's a term that provides too much space for misinterpretations.

(sarcasm mode on) This is getting too scientific for me (sarcasm mode off).

Back to OT: Nice Library, and thanks for the hint!
 
My answer was not meant to be sarcastic at all. If that is how you perceived it, that was not my intention.

I'd distance myself from the term "sketchlibrary", because I think it's a term that provides too much space for misinterpretations.

(sarcasm mode on) This is getting too scientific for me (sarcasm mode off).

Back to OT: Nice Library, and thanks for the hint!
LOL it's not so scientific in the end! I only dared to say that in a "all-in-one sketch library" I would really like to see some mixed-orchestra patches (like Albions, Symphobias, Sonuscore TO, Iconica Ensembles, etc)! That's all! Nothing more! I still don't understand why all this confusion!

Back to the original topic: insane deal for such a flagship library! Do you think it can blend well with my EWHO Gold?
 
LOL it's not so scientific in the end! I only dared to say that in a "all-in-one sketch library" I would really like to see some mixed-orchestra patches (like Albions, Symphobias, Sonuscore TO, Iconica Ensembles, etc)! That's all! Nothing more! I still don't understand why all this confusion!

Back to the original topic: insane deal for such a flagship library! Do you think it can blend well with my EWHO Gold?

It's confusing because I've never heard of anyone actually expecting those things from a sketching library. They're not supposed to have that functionality. The patches you want are what are often found in more expensive libraries. Like Iconica and Symphobia. Which I don't think are sketching libraries.
 
It's confusing because I've never heard of anyone actually expecting those things from a sketching library. They're not supposed to have that functionality. The patches you want are what are often found in more expensive libraries. Like Iconica and Symphobia. Which I don't think are sketching libraries.

LOL we don't need to confuse ourselves with names and definitions!

Look here! I just copied-pasted this from the official Palette's site:

"We are often asked how Palette Symphonic Sketchpad compares to the other all-in-one orchestral libraries on the market, so we thought we’d put together this graphic. These are all great products (we own many of them ourselves) so before you buy we encourage you to research, listen to demos and watch developer walk-thru videos to make an informed decision (of course you’re also welcome to just skip that work and buy Palette)."

orchestra-comparison.jpg

As you can see, the makers of Palette (Red Room Audio) decided themselves to compare Palette with Symphobia, Albion, Orchestral Essentials, and similar all-in-one orchestral libraries! What else is there to say? I copied this table from their official site, not some internet review or walkthrough!

Also about Iconica, I was talking about Iconica Ensembles, which has exactly the same price as Palette, and offers many mixed-orchestra patches!

I am not sure if no one else (other than me) is expecting mixed-orchestra patches in an all-in-one orchestral sketch library, but maybe it's because most other similar libraries already have such options! :P

But to be fair, it's nice to point not only the bad parts of a library, but also the good ones, so about Palette, it's a really nice feature that for every possible ensemble, they have included 2 sizes, the big/full one, and the small/chamber one! It's true that this is a very nice addition!
 
Last edited:
I found that though sometimes those mixed patches are nice, I end up not using Symphobia because I don't want a bassoon with my cello. Actually, that sounds like it might work. But whatever the patches Symphobia puts together, some are frankly weird to me. Fortunately, you can shut off some of the instruments in the patches, but then you are sometimes left with very limited range in which to play.

A sketch library is something that is lightweight that will give the sound you want well enough to be able to see if an idea will work quickly. It is not necessarily supposed to be the final finished product. Symphobia, for example, is supposed to be the finished product and is made for TV/Film composers primarily in order that they can rush out a product to meet deadlines.

And? RRA has some of those patches you are looking for in their extended libraries.
 
I found that though sometimes those mixed patches are nice, I end up not using Symphobia because I don't want a bassoon with my cello. Actually, that sounds like it might work. But whatever the patches Symphobia puts together, some are frankly weird to me. Fortunately, you can shut off some of the instruments in the patches, but then you are sometimes left with very limited range in which to play.

A sketch library is something that is lightweight that will give the sound you want well enough to be able to see if an idea will work quickly. It is not necessarily supposed to be the final finished product. Symphobia, for example, is supposed to be the finished product and is made for TV/Film composers primarily in order that they can rush out a product to meet deadlines.

And? RRA has some of those patches you are looking for in their extended libraries.
You are right, I can see that in Palette - Melodics, they feature some mixed orchestra combo patches (plus 6 essential solo instruments with true legato)! Thanks for your input here!

I don't own Symphobia, I have watched all the available demos and I understand what you say, that some of the patches can sound a little weird! But still it's a very respectable and overused library to be totally ignored, that's why I used it in some of my "mixed-orchestra-patches" examples above! :)
 
You are right, I can see that in Palette - Melodics, they feature some mixed orchestra combo patches (plus 6 essential solo instruments with true legato)! Thanks for your input here!

I don't own Symphobia, I have watched all the available demos and I understand what you say, that some of the patches can sound a little weird! But still it's a very respectable and overused library to be totally ignored, that's why I used it in some of my "mixed-orchestra-patches" examples above! :)
Symphobia has a great sound and for what it was made for, it is perfect. As a starting library for someone who wants to get into composing? I wouldn't recommend it unless you are doing trailer or game music. It would not help you learn how to orchestrate. You really would want individual sections to learn or as a beginners library.

The ensemble patches are better for quick sounds and to get an idea of how a piece would work quickly. They won't teach you how to compose. If you are just making music to hear, they are great. I think that is the big difference. I know I started with ensemble patches and got very frustrated because I couldn't really figure out what the individual instruments did. It is all one big sound.
 
In context of strengthening 'Sketching' toolbox _ ready to go forward with 'both' RRA-SS /APD & TO-Complete Upgrade __ with expenditure of <$225.

Additional $174. would purchase AI-Nucleus (Intro price) ! (side note) As several factors make SF-BBCSO very unlkely in near-term, Nucleus becomes stronger consideration.

Clearly, no right answer(s), but deliberating nonetheless .... DJ's walkthrough of Nucleus is having its impact .... :notworthy:
 
Symphobia has a great sound and for what it was made for, it is perfect. As a starting library for someone who wants to get into composing? I wouldn't recommend it unless you are doing trailer or game music. It would not help you learn how to orchestrate. You really would want individual sections to learn or as a beginners library.

The ensemble patches are better for quick sounds and to get an idea of how a piece would work quickly. They won't teach you how to compose. If you are just making music to hear, they are great. I think that is the big difference. I know I started with ensemble patches and got very frustrated because I couldn't really figure out what the individual instruments did. It is all one big sound.
My first teacher was Garritan Personal Orchestra 5! I did not like the dry sound out-of-the box, and I struggled to learn all the instruments and their ranges, how to create my own small sections and big ensembles, plus how to apply the right amount of reverb, depending on the situation! It was a very good lesson from a low-cost teacher! :)

Recently I upgraded to EWHO Gold, and the quality of the sound is so much better of course! Still I am learning, but this time is so much more enjoyable, so many amazing sounds to explore!

But in the end you have a point (about me) because I am not a professional musician or a music teacher! I am composing songs for other people to listen to! That's why I am searching now for an all-in-one sketch library: for faster / bigger / better results!

Still I am happy I followed the "proper" road, first learning all the individual different orchestral instruments and then proceeding to the full ensembles solutions! :)
 
In context of strengthening 'Sketching' toolbox _ ready to go forward with 'both' RRA-SS /APD & TO-Complete Upgrade __ with expenditure of <$225.

Additional $174. would purchase AI-Nucleus (Intro price) ! (side note) As several factors make SF-BBCSO very unlkely in near-term, Nucleus becomes stronger consideration.

Clearly, no right answer(s), but deliberating nonetheless .... DJ's walkthrough of Nucleus is having its impact .... :notworthy:
Go for them! The price is right! :)

Sorry, but when you wrote RRA-SS / APD, you obviously meant Red Room Audio - Symphonic Sketchpad! But what is APD?
 
Top Bottom