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On the Fence About Spitfire Studio Woodwinds

axb312 said:
@Apostate I have a hard time getting the CH winds to fit in an orchestral context and to sound Berlin'ish'. Any tips? I also feel like flutes are a bit robotic sounding at higher pitches...
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You have to mess with the panning, for one thing. There are resources on the internet that could explain it much better than me.

I also do a trick where, if there are more than two instruments in the ensemble I detune one of them just the tiniest bit. Works for me!
 
Apostate said:
You have to mess with the panning, for one thing. There are resources on the internet that could explain it much better than me.

I also do a trick where, if there are more than two instruments in the ensemble I detune one of them just the tiniest bit. Works for me!
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How do you get Flute 1 to sound good? I dislike the tone a lot.....:(
 
axb312 said:
How do you get Flute 1 to sound good? I dislike the tone a lot.....:(
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I was talking about the Alto Flute...I'd be surprised if you meant that. Try the legato, but make sure the vibrato slider is off first (this can be super important and a mistake I've left on one too many times).
 
Apostate said:
I was talking about the Alto Flute...I'd be surprised if you meant that. Try the legato, but make sure the vibrato slider is off first (this can be super important and a mistake I've left on one too many times).
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I was actually referring to the Flute 1 in CH Winds :).

Would you mind posting some examples from SStW?
 
axb312 said:
I was actually referring to the Flute 1 in CH Winds :).

Would you mind posting some examples from SStW?
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I need to start a Souncloud account, I've just been lazy (messing with my new SStWW too much I guess lol!).

I learned from here it's best to leave off the reverb on the Hein instruments (unfortunately it defaults to 'verb, so it takes some conscientiousness). Leave the body on. Also, you might experiment with a couple of different reverbs.

I personally can't think of a weak link in the Hein woodwinds, though it definitely use some more round robins on the short notes.
 
re-peat said:
Jam,

https://users.telenet.be/re-peat/SStWW_Tree2.mp3 (Here) are the flute, the oboe, the clarinet and the bassoon, using just the Tree 2 mic. And https://users.telenet.be/re-peat/SStWW_Tree2_B.mp3 (these) are the English horn, the bass clarinet, the piccolo and the contrabassoon.

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This highlights my biggest issue with the studio woodwinds and brass: unnatural attacks in the legato samples. So many of them seem like they're auto fading in the volume.

But I really like the libraries as a whole. I've found they gel very nicely with a lot of different libraries as part of the ensemble.
 
re-peat said:
Jam,

https://users.telenet.be/re-peat/SStWW_Tree2.mp3 (Here) are the flute, the oboe, the clarinet and the bassoon, using just the Tree 2 mic. And https://users.telenet.be/re-peat/SStWW_Tree2_B.mp3 (these) are the English horn, the bass clarinet, the piccolo and the contrabassoon
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A big thanks to you Peat. That sounds usable, so much better that all the other mic combos I've heard elsewhere. I'm struggling with my VSL and others and looking for a replacement until some other (hopefully great) WW libraries come out.

I really like their choice of instruments and arts, and love their gui. This mic sounds like a "mid-mic". In the picture about 3-4 meters back from the instruments iinm. I'm surprised they didn't showcase this more ! And your examples are vert musical Thanks again. Guess I'll be picking this up!
 
wilifordmusic said:
... or you don't.
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That's me all over. I really, really don't.
If I didn't have these already and were on the fence, those two audio examples would have me jump off it instantly and never give these winds, one more dreadful than the other, another thought.

_
 
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re-peat said:
That's me all over. I really, really don't.
If I didn't have these already and were on the fence, those two audio examples would have me jump off it instantly and never give this winds, one more dreadful than the other, another thought.
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What do you use as your main WW library?
 
I don’t have any.

Honestly, I don’t like *anything* I have in the woodwinds department: Chris Hein's WW (some clever Kontakt-ideas but mostly poor-sounding, bland source samples; and always very mono), Cinesamples' WW (always sounded more like a first, very rough draft for a library than an actual library to me), VSL (generic sounding, characterless nothingness with a vague hint of dead woodwind to it), Berlin Winds (if only the quality of the Expansion were also that of the core library …), Spitfire’s BML Winds (only so-and-so articulation-wise and, what’s worse, some of those volumes were never properly finished), 8dio Claire (very uneven, inconsistent and having twice as many problems as qualities), …

Nearly all woodwind libraries sound like Lazy Sunday Afternoon projects to me. Or an afterthought. Things you do when your heart’s not really into it. Or a task taken on, somewhat reluctantly, in between bigger projects and approached with only half the focus, budget, effort and commitment than is required, inevitably resulting in second-rate, careless, superficial work which is then dressed up with cheap trickery to make it as presentable as possible.

It’s incomprehensible, I find, that after 25 years of orchestral sampling, with all the technical progress that has been made during that time, and the gazillion orchestral libraries that have been made, there is still not a single decent woodwinds library available. It just doesn’t exist. When it comes to woodwinds, it feels like we're living in a sort of Groundhog Year: every day you wake up, it's still 1997.
Here and there, there are a few isolated patches that I can work with, and sometimes, one of the smaller libraries may contain a nice surprise or two, but by and large, Virtual Woodwind Land, to me, is a dull, barren waste of musically unsatisfying and sonically inferior efforts that will compromise just about every phrase you give to them and every orchestration they’re part of.

_
 
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re-peat said:
I don’t have any.

Honestly, I don’t like *anything* I have in the woodwinds department: Chris Hein's WW (some clever Kontakt-ideas but mostly poor-sounding, bland source samples; and always very mono), Cinesamples' WW (always sounded more like a first, very rough draft for a library than an actual library to me), VSL (generic sounding, characterless nothingness with a vague hint of dead woodwind to it), Berlin Winds (if only the quality of the Expansion where also that of the core library …), Spitfire’s BML Winds (only so-and-so articulation-wise and, what’s worse, some of those volumes were never properly finished), 8dio Claire (very uneven, inconsistent and having twice as many problems as qualities), …

Nearly all woodwind libraries sound like Lazy Sunday Afternoon projects to me. Or an afterthought. Things you do when your heart’s not really into it. Or a task taken on, somewhat reluctantly, in between bigger projects and approached with only half the focus, budget, effort and commitment than is required, inevitably resulting in second-rate, careless, superficial work which is then dressed up with cheap trickery to make it as presentable as possible.

It’s incomprehensible, I find, that after 25 years of orchestral sampling, with all the technical progress that has been made during that time, and the gazillion orchestral libraries that have been made, there is still not a single decent woodwinds library available. It just doesn’t exist. When it comes to woodwinds, it feels like we're living in a sort of Groundhog Year: every day you wake up, it's still 1997.
Here and there, there are a few isolated patches that I can work with, and sometimes, one of the smaller libraries may contain a nice surprise or two, but by and large, Virtual Woodwind Land, to me, is a dull, barren waste of musically unsatisfying and sonically inferior efforts that will compromise just about every phrase you give to them and every orchestration they’re part of.

_
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I was going to buy Spitfire Studio Brass and Woodwinds in the Spring Sale but your opinion of them (which I very much respect) has somewhat put me off. I say ‘somewhat’ because I am a beginner looking for a low HD footprint starter library and suspect a lot of what you do not like would not be obvious to me.

With the above in mind, and at the risk of briefly de-railing this thread, may I ask which brass library you would recommend?
 
If I had to buy a single, comprehensive library today it would be either Cinematic Studio Brass (my first choice) or Audiobro’s Scoring Brass (still not entirely convinced by this one though). Or the complete collection of Tinto Brass.

Berlin Brass has a lot going for it too — excellent sound and very versatile — , but it’s a fairly unwieldy mammoth of a library and getting it set up just right and make it obey your every wish is not for the faint of heart and requires a powerful, well-equipped machine.

And in the right hands, Andy Blaney’s for instance, Spitfire’s Symphonic Brass sounds as perfect as you could ever dream orchestral samples to sound, but I am not very familiar with the library — I only have one of its predecessors: the BML Horns — and big-sounding cinemascope symphonic stuff is not really my musical cup of tea anyway, so I never went for it.

I would also, beyond any doubt, get SampleModelling’s The Trumpet which I consider a true work of art. Seriously. A *very* rare thing in the world of virtual instruments. (The other SM brass instruments are, unfortunately, not quite in the same league, in my opinion.)

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Thank you, really appreciate your reply. Cinematic Studio Brass is one I was considering. Only problem is, if I get it, I won’t have enough HD space for the coming woodwind library but I think it’s got to be first choice at the moment and I’ll have to worry about HD space later. Thank you again.
 
I mean I admit that piet has some really valid points as I of the same opinion that wind libraries seem not to get the same love as lets say their string partners, and brass. However, I don´t find that all libraries are per se terrible. They are very limited and so you have to find ways to surpass their limitations. I don´t say that I am good with that, but I try to find ways. For instance this small excerpt was done only with berlin Woodwinds legacy here.

I am no midi mockup expert so forgive me that I dont meet the standards some people might have how sampled woodwinds should or have to sound like. There is a direct a/b comparison.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/cbi84t35x3gto37/Comparison_A_B.mp3?dl=0
 
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How many dynamic layers does the Spitfire Studio Woodwinds (longs and legatos) have? How about the Brass? I couldn’t fund this info anywhere so I am asking owners of thee libs...
 
I too am a bit frustrated at the lack of a truly great (at any price) Woodwind library. I don't have CH, but pretty much all the others. Seems this SstWW might be the best while waiting for the next generation of libraries. I'm looking for orchestral winds, and this Tree 2 mic (with verb) might work.

There's probably less money for devs in Woodwinds. I have high hopes for CSW, Century Woodwinds (assuming there will be one), AudioBro, & an eventual new OT winds library.

I was at first stunned by the choice of the room for this Spitfire line, but I think the choice was probably not to compete with their SSW & SSB line, so a markedly "small" sound. I'm hoping maybe SF will also do another high profile orchestral line in a new medium-size room, we'll see...
 
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