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Orchestral Tools and Organic Samples collab // NEW: OS Bundle + Vivid Keys

MartinH. said:
Maybe I'm too cynical, but when the majestic horn was released I was hoping for Organic Samples to become a force to recon with on the VI market and shake things up a bit. And I don't quite see how it's better for consumers in the long run when all the promising small devs get acquired by any of the big players. I'm sure they're happy about it themselves because it's a form of validation and probably also pays better, but from a pure consumer standpoint, I think this is generally more bad than good for us in the long term, and every time I've seen similar things in the software world the consolidation into monopolies lead to stagnating products at higher prices over time. I don't see the win-win-win here that you describe. By what mechanic exactly do you think this is better for the consumers in the long run, when small devs get acquired by much bigger companies?
Not saying I'd do anything differently by the way, both from Maxime's and OT's perspective. No hard feelings, I understand. I just don't see why I should be celebrating this personally...
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As usual, it will depend. And OT is not exactly a huge corporation. OT needs more libraries to ensure it has a robust revenue stream to grow in order to make good on bet they are placing on their sample player and the new organization that will come with it. Organic Samples likely needs capital investment in order to do what it wants to do in a timely fashion. Done right, this could help both (though we're not like to see another 2 euro horn). But, yes, there is a risk. But there is always a risk.
 
lucor said:
Yeah, there is no way they did all of this in less than a week. Also the fact that Hendrik, who barely posts anything at all in the forum, was so active and talked so publically in this thread instead of via PM.
Plus, we also now know the reason why the Organic Samples webshop was closed for the last few months. ;)
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Yes I completely agree, and this would explain quite a lot actually concerning why their shop wasn't available at some point. And also like you mentioned before why all of a sudden Hendrik started to write this much!
 
jbuhler said:
As usual, it will depend. And OT is not exactly a huge corporation. OT needs more libraries to ensure it has a robust revenue stream to grow in order to make good on bet they are placing on their sample player and the new organization that will come with it. Organic Samples likely needs capital investment in order to do what it wants to do in a timely fashion. Done right, this could help both (though we're not like to see another 2 euro horn). But, yes, there is a risk. But there is always a risk.
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I kinda share the same point of view, especially knowing that both companies have focused in delivering quite inspiring sample libraries in the last couple of years and they surely want to bring the whole VI industry forward. Sure, there is a risk for both but it really seems like OS will be continued as an independent series of instruments, built together with OT and recorded at Teldex and with @Maxime Luft as the leader of his own projects.
 
I think I'm as big a fan of Organic Samples as anyone. But...

You can't sustain notes on Solo Opera beyond a certain length. They don't loop. Holding notes is something composers and opera singers like to do. @Maxime Luft is well aware of this, but to fix it would involve a new recording session. I told him that he should pull a Virharmonic and do a pre-buy. I said I would happily send him money and was sure others would too. He didn't respond and now I know why.

I'm not saying Organic Samples are going to add to Solo Opera, but this sure opens up a lot of possibilities.

I bet there are a lot of people on this forum who wouldn't get upset if there were additional articulations for Majestic Horn either.

What has always moved me about Organic Samples is the purity of their approach. It's always quality over quantity. They would rather devote all their time to creating one truly sublime vocal legato, instead of 12 legatos, sustains, shorts, reversed vocals, 1000 phrases, etc. I am sure they will never lose sight of this.

Kudos to Orchestral Tools for recognizing how great they are.
 
Congratulations to both parties, wonderful to see such collaborations getting started!
 
TigerTheFrog said:
You can't sustain notes on Solo Opera beyond a certain length. They don't loop. Holding notes is something composers and opera singers like to do.
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None of the solo vocal libraries I have loop the sustain in the main patches. Some of the sustains are longer than others (sometimes even in the same library) but none of them is virtuosically long. Some have a looped patch which you can use in a pinch, but is not very effective as an unprocessed solo voice because there is no shape to it.
 
I think Maxime working with OT is inspiring. This whole story seems like a wonderful turn of events.
I just really hope they allow Organic Samples and Maxime to continue to develop his own approach to sampling in a raw and fresh way, and not ask him to create homogenized libraries to fit the OT collections. OT libraries are amazing, but the interest in collaborating with an indie developer should be to feature their fresh approach. I trust this will be a wonderful collaboration and amazing new libs will come out of it. OT is one of the smartest developers in the field. I would love to see future Organic Samples libraries keeping its fresh approach of imperfection and realism. Because that is the reason we love indie developers.
 
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MartinH. said:
Maybe I'm too cynical, but when the majestic horn was released I was hoping for Organic Samples to become a force to recon with on the VI market and shake things up a bit. And I don't quite see how it's better for consumers in the long run when all the promising small devs get acquired by any of the big players. I'm sure they're happy about it themselves because it's a form of validation and probably also pays better, but from a pure consumer standpoint, I think this is generally more bad than good for us in the long term, and every time I've seen similar things in the software world the consolidation into monopolies lead to stagnating products at higher prices over time. I don't see the win-win-win here that you describe. By what mechanic exactly do you think this is better for the consumers in the long run, when small devs get acquired by much bigger companies?
Not saying I'd do anything differently by the way, both from Maxime's and OT's perspective. No hard feelings, I understand. I just don't see why I should be celebrating this personally...
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There are two ways to look at it.

On the one hand, it's easy top think that a smaller developer like Organic Samples being acquired by a larger developer might stifle competition.

On the other hand, it's easy top think that a smaller developer like Organic Samples can now make libraries that it would not have had the resources to create beforehand.

Only time will tell.
 
erica-grace said:
There are two ways to look at it.

On the one hand, it's easy top think that a smaller developer like Organic Samples being acquired by a larger developer might stifle competition.

On the other hand, it's easy top think that a smaller developer like Organic Samples can now make libraries that it would not have had the resources to create beforehand.

Only time will tell.
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I agree with this.
 
MartinH. said:
By what mechanic exactly do you think this is better for the consumers in the long run, when small devs get acquired by much bigger companies?
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the mechanism of money, expertise and additional personnel now supporting the ideas and originality of the original venture? You make it sound like it's easy and cheap to make big libraries with one or two people but there's a reason small devs do mainly solo instruments and pianos. in the 20-30 years of sampling there have been what 5 big players? and dozens and dozens of small developers that never grow big enough to realize their dream ideas. I guarantee you each of those one and two man shops would kill to have someone like OT offer them the support of their personnel and check books.

I'm sure Maxime is a smart guy and who knows what the terms of their agreement is. Sure you can be cynical and look at it like this evil, conglomerate inhaled a smaller player forever stifling what innovation could have existed...or you could be positive and look at it like two like minds passionate about sampling coming together, one with years of experience and significantly deeper pockets. OT is a big player in this little market but Avid it ain't.

Either way, if it turns out to be a terrible experience for Maxime, I'm sure their agreement is time-limited.
 
MartinH. said:
All I'm saying is: with things like this, it gets more likely to stay that way... forever.
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I see what you're saying but, in practical terms, how many times have larger sample library developers acquired smaller developers? Correct me if I'm wrong but, at least publicly, its pretty much never happened. VSL, Spitfire, EW, Projectsam, OT all grew on the success of their own work not because they bought smaller developers and destroyed their innovation. From what I can tell, it's not super crowded at the top, not because of monopolization, but because it's really hard to make good libraries without significant man power and investment.

Anyway just my two cents
 
prodigalson said:
I see what you're saying but, in practical terms, how many times have larger sample library developers acquired smaller developers? Correct me if I'm wrong but, at least publicly, its pretty much never happened. VSL, Spitfire, EW, Projectsam, OT all grew on the success of their own work not because they bought smaller developers and destroyed their innovation. From what I can tell, it's not super crowded at the top, not because of monopolization, but because it's really hard to make good libraries without significant man power and investment.

Anyway just my two cents
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Sorry if I did not understand you correctly, but do you mean that it might happen that OT destroys the innovation and new approach from OS regarding sampling in general? I might be totally wrong but I kinda understood it that way a bit.

However, I think the end results of OS' new products will in any case speak by themselves. I honestly can't see this being a flop if they let OrganicSamples approach this whole sampling thing as they used to.
 
midi-et-quart said:
Sorry if I did not understand you correctly, but do you mean that it might happen that OT destroys the innovation and new approach from OS regarding sampling in general? I might be totally wrong but I kinda understood it that way a bit.

However, I think the end results of OS' new products will in any case speak by themselves. I honestly can't see this being a flop if they let OrganicSamples approach this whole sampling thing as they used to.
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That’s actually the opposite of what I’m saying. Read the whole discussion between me and MartinH for full context.
 
prodigalson said:
That’s actually the opposite of what I’m saying. Read the whole discussion between me and MartinH for full context.
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I missed your previous post which basically sums up perfectly what I'm thinking about this whole story, and sorry for being so wrong in my previous post!
I think you're perfectly right I think when it comes to why smaller devs mainly do solo instruments and how this collaboration could lead to bigger results... I'm eager to listen to their first demos & all in all I have a very good feeling about this.
 
Reading Hendrick's and Maxime's conversation made me feel like I needed a cigarette afterwards. Could just be the heroin speaking though... not sure.
 
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