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How to mix orchestral music - what plugins?

Nick Batzdorf said:
You know, before samples (and the digital revolution), when TV and film music was recorded live, music was orchestrated so skillfully that the engineer barely touched the faders. He (rarely she in those days) would know when solos were coming up, but otherwise the music basically mixed itself.
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I was going to say something about orchestration before Nick (and Mike Fox) chimed in here... but to quote HZ: 'orchestration is mixing'. So getting a balanced template and focusing on MIDI programming are a great place to start.
 
Nick Batzdorf said:
You know, before samples (and the digital revolution), when TV and film music was recorded live, music was orchestrated so skillfully that the engineer barely touched the faders. He (rarely she in those days) would know when solos were coming up, but otherwise the music basically mixed itself.

Reading the title of this thread, it occurs to me that you should be able to get close to that Platonic ideal when writing for sampled orchestra just by using EQ and the right reverb.

Never going to happen, of course, but you'd think it could.
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I agree. Had the chance to see the desk of a recording session of a concert performance the other day. Had a little chat with the engineer and noticed that the only thing that he processed was indeed the singers. The orchestra is built in mind to take advantage of the full spectrum and simultaniously leave every instrument section its own space.

Mixing samples tough, is different.
 
Agree too.
If the mix sounds bad, blame the arrangement / orchestration.

(That said I'm still at a stage where both orchestration & mix are guilty)
 
Thinking about picking up Seventh Heaven (seen some comments in here about it), I'm currently running the demo version without an iLok but it says it requires it? In my iLok License Manager I have iLok cloud which it is registered on, can I use that full the version too? If anyone knows..


EDIT: Ahh basically an always online thing, guess I’ll skip until I get a ilok USB
 
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bryla said:
Just to hit the point again: I get sent a lot of composer demos and their project files. The ones that sound best have the least amount of processing and clearest arrangement.
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Of course, it depends on the context. That wouldn't apply to electronica, for example!

But there is a temptation to keep adding stuff, just because we have it and feel like we should be using it.
 
marclawsonmusic said:
I was going to say something about orchestration before Nick (and Mike Fox) chimed in here... but to quote HZ: 'orchestration is mixing'. So getting a balanced template and focusing on MIDI programming are a great place to start.
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I don't think I've ever seen him say that, infact if anything stereotypical HZ has nothing to do with a traditional balanced orchestra

what you're saying is true about orchestral music ofcourse, it just doesn't really line up with something HZ himself seems like he'd say(or atleast he pretty much champions the exception of it)
 
ProfoundSilence said:
I don't think I've ever seen him say that, infact if anything stereotypical HZ has nothing to do with a traditional balanced orchestra

what you're saying is true about orchestral music ofcourse, it just doesn't really line up with something HZ himself seems like he'd say(or atleast he pretty much champions the exception of it)
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I was referring to this post from a few years back -> https://vi-control.net/community/threads/tips-on-improving-my-epic-percussions.37492/#post-3778925
 
marclawsonmusic said:
I was referring to this post from a few years back -> https://vi-control.net/community/threads/tips-on-improving-my-epic-percussions.37492/#post-3778925
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From that link:

"I can control the mics in my sampler, but I love the sound of the room more than the close-mics. But obvious one trick that helps to preserve clarity is to move the far mics and out-riggers forward in time and line all the transients up. I know that's impossible in nature - that time is determined by the distance of one mic to the other - but it still gives me a huge sound without getting all that flammy transient shit."

What's unclear in my brain - assuming Hans is still talking about samples - is how he moves the far mics and out-riggers forward without also moving the transients they're married to, but that is an interesting post.

Also interesting: *increasing* the predelay on strings is a good way to get clarity + big sound.
 
Nick Batzdorf said:
What's unclear in my brain - assuming Hans is still talking about samples - is how he moves the far mics and out-riggers forward without also moving the transients they're married to
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In context it reads (to me) like he's actually talking about new recordings just for that piece, rather than stock samples. So I'd assume he's using multiple tracks: close mics on one track, far mics on another. Then just edging the far mic audio backward slightly to line up its transient with the transient in the close mic track? Must be a VERY small nudge, though -- even if your far mics are quite far away, I can't imagine the transients are very far apart. But it makes sense that lining them up would provide better clarity.
 
Wally Garten said:
In context it reads (to me) like he's actually talking about new recordings just for that piece, rather than stock samples. So I'd assume he's using multiple tracks: close mics on one track, far mics on another. Then just edging the far mic audio backward slightly to line up its transient with the transient in the close mic track? Must be a VERY small nudge, though -- even if your far mics are quite far away, I can't imagine the transients are very far apart. But it makes sense that lining them up would provide better clarity.
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I think you're right that it's live recordings.

Just to be clear, lining up percussion transients is a standard thing. Engineers have been doing that with drum mics since Pro Tools (at least that's when I first heard of it).
 
I suggest you spend time on your rudimentary skills in mixing and continue listening to great scores to get the cinematic sound in your head.

At the same time, I recommend watching this, and many others like it:



It is quite advanced, however, Jake’s philosophy of mixing is quite simple and interesting.
 
ghostnote said:
I agree. Had the chance to see the desk of a recording session of a concert performance the other day. Had a little chat with the engineer and noticed that the only thing that he processed was indeed the singers. The orchestra is built in mind to take advantage of the full spectrum and simultaniously leave every instrument section its own space.

Mixing samples tough, is different.
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It is different, no question.

However, the "get it done quickly" film/TV sessions I'm talking about are somewhat different from regular classical recordings, which often have a lot of edits. And often there aren't even spot mics on live concert recordings (just a Decca tree or similar hanging from the ceiling - like EastWest's main mic position, by the way).
 
Fabfilter ProQ
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Stock Plugin for your Compressors, saturators, limiters, etc. .to start at least until you get more comfortable with understanding how each is used and how their color might work for things here or not so much there. `That comes way down the road' For enhancers, distortion, toners if you want one , which i would get because their dope , shcleps that people have said is cool. I do orchestral stuff as of late , being I have some 'Heavycity' Libraries. NOrmally, Punch' - 200$ would it never be worth that but it goes for 50$ ever once in awhile so I just grabbed it, and works and there , fun little guy.

Reverbs I would say are tricky to wrap your head around until you've stepped into audio long enough to understand the differences and purposes of each. Now to build upon that fact I would believe reverbs transforms nd excel the desired sound to an enormous effect compared to other techniques using a different kind of effect - well and compression too. But they are aLL important...but from an untrained ear, reverb you as a beginner would appreciate the most.

I will assume your an electronic music driven fellas (different genres focus different techniques/plugins/audio practices. If you are into rock for instance you will be doing a lot of time in the recording studio....as for electronic producers far less will they have to. Treatment of each stem/layer (i.e. the vocals of a track....or the 'Drums/Percussion' ) will have different techniques for plugin usage. I am not going to to sit and explain everything which I would if someone was shilling me...however that is on you to learn these things and how technique-different / and content-driven different that are. I.E. -------------
SAVE YOUR MONEY< BUY A COOL KEYBOARD or something to keep your interest while you learn as indulging in cool shit every once in awhile is a healthy practice to keep interest. BUT do your research and learning before you dive into expensive plugins - figure out your genres/or if your doing film or SFX as the main workload, what they use and how if you were a SFX driven guy and wanted to do FILM stuff, investing in a good convolution Verb wouldn't be a bad idea in the long run. BUT FIGURE YOUR SHIIT OUT FIRST BEFORE YOU DROP 800$ on ALTIVERB. - lol I happened to use that as an example.
GOOD luck,


and may the AUDIO - GODS be with you.

hummmmm hummmmmm hummmmm hummmmm hummmmmm. SO great AUDIO GODS you are....hummmmmm........hummmmmmmm ....Providing us with large RAM increase capapblities if we went PC .....hummmmmm.......hummmmmm
 
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