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Berlin Strings v Afflatus

I've paid 764 euros or so for VSL Synchron Strings I, and look at what we have got? Synthy sounds, flawed legato and false advertisement. Now I have paid 649 euros for Afflatus, and I am quite happy with it. They are fixing issues, and recording new contents to make this product looks better. So, as I said, after my experience with VSL, I found the rest of these library developers are more lovely to get along with.

VSL keeps silent and do not respond to any request for fixing Synchron Strings 1. We will always remember this. Strezov is at least communicating with customers, and they are doing something for us within their reach. That is a good attitude, they promised a content update after the official release of the product, and that is deserving my order on Afflatus.

I am not bringing down Strezov. I think they have done marvelously on this forum, and I own a few of their products, which I like a lot. I also bought Synchron, and yes, I am not using it and probably won't be. I fear it could be the same with Afflatus because of its dated sound (most likely due to the equipment used for recording - mics not quite up to the task e.g.) and other issues like the stereo image jumping + phasing I hear in all demos. It could have been an awesome library, is my impression, but the foundation for it just doesn't seem to have been in place.
 
I am not bringing down Strezov. I think they have done marvelously on this forum, and I own a few of their products, which I like a lot. I also bought Synchron, and yes, I am not using it and probably won't be. I fear it could be the same with Afflatus because of its dated sound (most likely due to the equipment used for recording - mics not quite up to the task e.g.) and other issues like the stereo image jumping + phasing I hear in all demos. It could have been an awesome library, is my impression, but the foundation for it just doesn't seem to have been in place.

In my eyes, they are doing a better job than VSL, so if you have found any issues and problems with Afflatus, please go to find Strezov, shoot him an email, or even schedule a video conference via Skype with him, I think he said that before.

Well, if what's done is done, and it's not possible to fix (Just like Synchron Strings I, they will not fix it, even it's possible to do so), and I guess that's it, you can walk away, save your money and expect that maybe a next string library will do a better job.

For Cory, he has received the copy for free to review....so I think he is somehow excited, but that's not a big deal. As a friend or people who benefits from someone else, will always talk things at good side, right? That is how this world runs.
 
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Cory is obiously biased towards Afflatus. He has put down a lot of competing libaries along the way, including CSS, and often being wrong about each libraries' strengths/weaknesses. And sugarcoating Afflatus quite a bit including comments like "Afflatus' stereo image is fine for all sections" in this very thread, despite obvious stereo imaging issues that I heard in pretty much all demos.

That is not very credible, knowing he is in bed with Strezov. Certainly people should keep that in mind when reading Cory's comments.

Have myself being close to pulling the trigger on Afflatus - each time too many things I heard just slapped my hand and stopped me from doing it. It would obviously be easier to take part in these talks if I owned the library, which again almost made me make the purchase. But then I tell myself why I shouldn't. As mentioned earlier, I will surely pick it up at a sale but at the current price I just think I'll regret it.
Claiming lies about me on this thread is spurious and disgusting. I have never put down CSS, and anyone with a brain who has seen my video on it knows this. Also, I don't even need to defend myself regarding my videos and my thoughts on Afflatus, as those who know better will know the truth. If you are in league with others on this site who hold a grudge against me and are attempting to hijack this thread the same way someone else did earlier, then you should be ashamed of yourself. End of discussion.

<<MODERATORS NOTE>> As one might guess, drama ensued after this post. Simon's post was a fair one, and it's fair that Cory responded. The posts after this, while legitimate and also (possibly) fair, don't add much to the topic, though, so we've moved those to the Drama Zone.
 
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Seriously, CSS takes practise, and even Alex Wallbank says it in his video. This is ridiculous making such a big deal over such a general sentence. I'll no longer be replying to your comments because you're only here to cause trouble from the looks of things. Have all the last says you want, go nuts.
I am not in any "league with others". The comment regarding CSS that I mostly thought was not true at all was this, from another thread where a user asked about different aspects of CSS vs Afflatus: "Playability - CS takes a lot of practice, whereas Afflatus is user friendly and has time saving polyphonic legato and divisi switching." I think CSS is very easy to use out of the box. I always considered CSS (and also CSSS) the most easily playable and consistently programmed string library. Which is why I don't understand your comment.

Also consider that in pretty much all of Afflatus' demos, the legato suffer from the "suction effect", whereas CSS performs very well legato wise. You just tend to bring forward the positives of Afflatus and ignore the negatives...


Sorry to barge in but that’s just an opinion, not a fact, and Cory thinking otherwise is not a bias. I honestly don’t think CSS is that “playable”, at least not in the way I’d prefer. It’s one I use occasionally but in the end I’d agree that afflatus is easier to get up and go with. At least in my opinion that is.
 
Both are definitely playable. Berlin is a library which is more feature rich, has more articulations and so on, and Afflatus is configurable in terms of number of players, as descried in another post.
If you want to create mockups not just as a part of your compositional process, but in order to use for published work, Berlin will take you longer, and has portamento, different vibratos which can be switched between (bot not crossfaded between on the fly out of the box; your vibrato change will be valid from your next note), attack control, fast runs (which I think I read somewhere that Afflatus may get later?) and so on. But if you want to use one of these libraries mainly as a way to compose and get some inspirational support from what you hear, Afflatus could be a better choice, at least for some of us - but read on: Berlin also has some inspirational presets.

They both come with a lot of presets actually, so you'd have to look up each of the libraries and check what I said about number of articulations. Berlin comes with many short note choices, a number of long note choices and also many dynamic longs, or 'arcs' - and is a more 'logical' library while Afflatus may be at least as inspiring, especially the Lush and Scene d'Amour presets.
Berlin may be a better library, but if I could take only one of them with me to some remote place to compose, I'd probably choose Afflatus, unless someone wanted me to write something with lots of fast runs and also hear a mockup with all kinds of shorts/longs/arcs.

Berlin Strings comes in a 8-6-5-5-4 configuration, while Afflatus can be layered with itself to get everything between 2 and 15 players (I checked this with the violas, maybe the V1s have even more options?).

"Afflatus is particular with the legato"... true, but all longs in Berlin can be made legato (although not full adaptive legato as their main legato banks are - check YouTube for Berlin Strings legato), and Afflatus also have some very alive sounding shorts.

With A you may get extra stuff you may or may not need, and this extra stuff may also have increased the price of the product. This is true for B as well, but Berlin comes with longs/arcs/shorts that you may not need now, but maybe will need later. And, if you'll go for the Berlin expansions A and B, you'll also get access to their Sul Tasto Sustains (soft/immediate) presets which may be the closest you'll get to Afflatus' Lush/Scene d'Amour presets. The Berlin cellos and viola soft sul tastos are brilliant (but then again, I generally think violas and cellos are brilliant!).

I have found myself sitting down playing and getting ideas more with after my first meeting with Afflatus than I did with Berlin, at least before I discovered Berlin's 'Whole Ensemble Sustains Soft' in the main collection. The individual Berlin Espressivo and and Soft Sustain presets in BS are also very good presets - which 'breathe'.

With Berlin you may get a more mature library - with more options, especially if you go for the expansions as well, and good 'adaptive legato' presets which gives you a distinct attack if you play a note with high velocity, and a soft attack if you play soft. Afflatus may need more switching between presets (disclaimer: I've had Berlin for years and Afflatus for a couple pf days).

Since I don't know if you want to mainly compose or create as good mockups as possible - or know what kind of music you want to write, I can't give any proper advice, of course. They are both very good libraries, but in different ways. If you want to control section sizes, have polyphonic legato and divisi, maybe Afflatus is the best choice for you, and if you want to control details and a more 'classical' product with portamento and more vibrato/attack control, Berlin may be your thing.

Thanks Vik, that was an excellent read. Finally some perspective from an experienced Berlin user that, despite the short time with Afflatus, knows his ways with a new library and has no bias towards either of them.

I understand things get a bit crazy during holiday season (poor Jesus) and there's this time pressure going on, but even at a discount, both libraries are still very expensive.

Don't fall for basic manipulative marketing tactics and remember that there's always the "greatest sale we've ever done" an email away.
 
other issues like the stereo image jumping + phasing I hear in all demos. It could have been an awesome library, is my impression, but the foundation for it just doesn't seem to have been in place.

That's what I noticed in many of the Afflatus demos also. The fact similar stereo image problems exist in Strezov's children's choir lib. If they could not offer a fix for Árva, I wonder what kind of magic they could pull with Afflatus.

It would be great if Strezov could show us they have the technical capabilities to solve those issues esp. with the slightly older products.

George's initial responses on the forum are very much appreciated. Yet, his support team basically dropped its response after the first reply, which IMHO, could hardly be qualified as sincere supporting efforts.
 
If anyone else who owns the library (besides myself) would care to chime in and say whether or not they hear stereo imaging or phasing issues in Afflatus, that would be great.
 
I fear it could be the same with Afflatus because of its dated sound (most likely due to the equipment used for recording - mics not quite up to the task e.g.) and other issues like the stereo image jumping + phasing I hear in all demos.
Hi Simon, obviously music is a matter of perspective and is subjective, as sample libraries and virtual instruments, so I don't want to get into that discussion. However, I'd just like to point out that Bulgaria is not a 5th world country as some people believe :) and we do have mics that are up to the task.
Please feel free to check the microphone list of Sofia Session Studio: https://www.fourformusic.com/studio/

Generally in our sessions, I asked for Neumann M150 for Decca Tree, U87 for the celli, basses, violas, Schoeps MK4 for the high strings, all amped through Millenia HV-3D and going in Apogee Symphony I/O (it's not in the list at the moment because the studio switched to Avid HD). But - as I said in the video - that's hardly the most important part. I don't believe in thousand lines of code, of recording a snare drum with 45 microphones. Reasoning behind this - I, as a composer, need tools that are simple and get the job done. That's the philosophy behind our sampling company - people might like it or might not. That's life!

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@mobileavatar - yes, we are already going through all patches of Arva and seeing what can be done based on your feedback - we're aiming to do this in December, but depends on how things with Afflatus will continue - we have tons of files that we recorded (we already did the scene d'amour celli if you haven't seen the video) and that need to be polished. Moreover, we have a 30-day slot with Native Instruments to deliver an instrument update - which is almost finished, based on suggestions and feedback mostly on VI Control. So, after that's done we're going to move on to checking Árva. I do have to say that the panning is baked in the samples already so I'm not sure if this will be fixed. However, if many people complain about this (and honestly you have been the first among many users to send us such an email) we will gladly go back and remix the recording files. Our support staff consists of one guy replying to many emails - regarding educational discounts, possible add-on features for Afflatus, supporting Native Access implementation (which is I think hardly our job) and even just talking with our user base (some really fantastic stories there!).

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And finally:
That is not very credible, knowing he is in bed with Strezov.
I find this offensive towards Cory, not to mention the actual wording. I can guarantee that he does not work for us and just received a copy for review. And I thought that this is a community of grown-ups, not a DOTA 2 discussion board?

P.S.
I am member of DOTA 2 discussion boards :)
 
If anyone else who owns the library (besides myself) would care to chime in and say whether or not they hear stereo imaging or phasing issues in Afflatus, that would be great.

Cory, I believe you do not own Berlin Strings, Chamber Strings or Intimate Strings, am I correct?

That didn't prevent you from giving very specific feedback about libraries that you do not own nor used. So why this now? I do not need to own Afflatus to hear issues, including the stereo imaging issues I mentioned last week. It's in every demo I've heard so far, including your review. So, why are you so quick to shut down anything but praise?

You seem to overlook issues with Afflatus that many are reporting, yet you don't mind making this sort of comments about other libraries:

"Berlin Strings has weak scripting and legato. I wouldn't pick on this flaw if the library wasn't so expensive. There are some who will defend the library to their death but the facts remain, just like how Chamber Strings has many flaws with the scripting and legato. In this capacity, I don't care if anyone takes offense, because all I care about is hard data, not bias. Afflatus may not be entirely flawless but it's definitely better scripted and presented."

That's your tone every single time someone mentions anything remotely close to a flaw with Afflatus. Do you work or speak on the behalf of Strezov Sampling? I know you are going to say that you are only trying to help and that's really nice, but when you take over the conversation in every single thread, only to dismiss others, it starts to wear off.

I've been talking with other composers on other platforms that are also following us here, and most are avoiding leaving comments because they know you will instantly jump in. I recommended them to directly contact Strezov in this case.

Your review was very helpful, but I'm afraid that's not the case here. I want to be clear that this is NOT a confrontation, as you seem to be very sensitive to opposing opinions, I'm just asking you to maybe chill a little and let others speak their minds without going full guns blazing...
 
Hi Simon, obviously music is a matter of perspective and is subjective, as sample libraries and virtual instruments, so I don't want to get into that discussion. However, I'd just like to point out that Bulgaria is not a 5th world country as some people believe :) and we do have mics that are up to the task.
Please feel free to check the microphone list of Sofia Session Studio: https://www.fourformusic.com/studio/

Hi. I am not saying that Bulgaria is a 5th world country. I am just saying that also from personal experience, the sound recorded by engineers in Eastern Europe just seems to be dated/old sounding in lack of better words. Like either the equipment used or the engineers put a pillow on the recording. I don't know much about mics, but I know that when we did our custom samples recordings many years ago in Prague, we got a very high resolution recording showing lots of overtones and air. We brought our own technician, who brought his own mics (a set of limited edition Bruel & Kjær for the decca tree). I think he used what was there for spot mics.

The result was very different when I returned there (to the very same venue) a couple of years later to record a score for a game; the sound was closed, too up front, unpleasant and well.. old sounding. We used the equipment and engineer in place that time around. Totally different sound. Ever since, I know the people I work for have brought their own engineer and possibly mics to wherever they go (I think it is actually Bulgaria or Slovakia these days) and the results are very different. So obviously some technical/cultural thing must be different.

As said, I don't know much about mics so I can't really comment whether those Neumanns are considered state of the art for orchestral recordings, and used in London/LA etc. as well. They possibly could be and it is then only a matter of engineering and possibly the placement of mics...?
 
Cory, I believe you do not own Berlin Strings, Chamber Strings or Intimate Strings, am I correct?

That didn't prevent you from giving very specific feedback about libraries that you do not own nor used. So why this now? I do not need to own Afflatus to hear issues, including the stereo imaging issues I mentioned last week. It's in every demo I've heard so far, including your review. So, why are you so quick to shut down anything but praise?

You seem to overlook issues with Afflatus that many are reporting, yet you don't mind making this sort of comments about other libraries:

"Berlin Strings has weak scripting and legato. I wouldn't pick on this flaw if the library wasn't so expensive. There are some who will defend the library to their death but the facts remain, just like how Chamber Strings has many flaws with the scripting and legato. In this capacity, I don't care if anyone takes offense, because all I care about is hard data, not bias. Afflatus may not be entirely flawless but it's definitely better scripted and presented."

That's your tone every single time someone mentions anything remotely close to a flaw with Afflatus. Do you work or speak on the behalf of Strezov Sampling? I know you are going to say that you are only trying to help and that's really nice, but when you take over the conversation in every single thread, only to dismiss others, it starts to wear off.

I've been talking with other composers on other platforms that are also following us here, and most are avoiding leaving comments because they know you will instantly jump in. I recommended them to directly contact Strezov in this case.

Your review was very helpful, but I'm afraid that's not the case here. I want to be clear that this is NOT a confrontation, as you seem to be very sensitive to opposing opinions, I'm just asking you to maybe chill a little and let others speak their minds without going full guns blazing...
You assume I do not own the libraries I mention. You are wrong. Please do not accuse me of lying without proof.

Claiming on behalf of others that they are afraid to post on this thread because of me is presumptuous. Anyone can post any thoughts they have on the library here, and when I respond with my thoughts on how the library works and what I've found while playing is not "taking over conversations". If someone is offended that I'm posting about the things I like in Afflatus, that is preposterous.

When I say Afflatus is better presented and has better legato scripting than Chamber Strings or Berlin Strings, I absolutely mean it. Do a side by side comparison and count the legato features each library has next to one another. Once again, I don't care about bias, only HARD DATA.

In regards to me being defensive - I have only been defensive towards posts that are directed at me, like yours is. Please stop picking points about individual's posts and only post your thoughts on Afflatus or Berlin Strings in this thread.

I'm sorry my high opinion of Afflatus seems to be a problem for you, but I'm not about to change my opinion, or the facts regarding the library, for anyone or any reason.

I'm still waiting for someone who has Afflatus to post an example of these stereo imaging issues you mention by the way. Violins 1 to the left, Violins 2 slightly to the left, Violas slightly to the right, Celli to the right, Basses to the right. Experimental patches need not follow this format. It's all there for those who are using the library and can hear for themselves. If they do find a problem, I encourage them to post an example so Strezov can hear it.
 
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If it's what I think it is, that might be Bulgaria, can't share details though. But I can assure you the engineering team and equipment was in-house. But that's very much off-topic, happy to continue this over PM. Sorry, maybe I get a bit worked up...
 
I know this is a Berlin Strings vs Afflatus thread, but since CSS has been brought up multiple times, I just wanted to post a quick demonstration comparing the legato.

Right off the bat, Afflatus is MUCH easier to play. There's just no way around it. It took me several takes to get the hang of the CSS, while Afflatus was a walk in the park.

The first clip is the Violins 1 patch from CSS in Con Sordino, followed by the Scene d'Amour patch.



The second clip is the standard Violins 1 patch from CSS, followed by the Lush Strings patch from Afflatus.



I also wanted to note that no reverb has been added. As you can hear, Afflatus is much closer/dryer sounding (which I greatly prefer). CSS is more lush, but I feel that can get in the way of detail at times.

Personally, I'd take Afflatus.
 
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Thank-you for these comparisons.:thumbsup:
With BF Sale over, notable CSS /CSSS cost advantage is gone.

Oldheimers' ears pushes me to headphones and several repeats. o_O
(more 'clarity' for me on Track #2 _ Afflatus)

Afflatus decision now impacting all others.
 
Thank-you for these comparisons.:thumbsup:
With BF Sale over, notable CSS /CSSS cost advantage is gone.

Oldheimers' ears pushes me to headphones and several repeats.
o_O

Afflatus decision now impacting all others.
The library will get bigger next year, which will essentially mean all the free content gets added to the current price for nothing, so that's something to consider.
 
I know this is a Berlin Strings vs Afflatus thread, but since CSS has been brought up multiple times, I just wanted to post a quick demonstration comparing the legato.

Right off the bat, Afflatus is MUCH easier to play. There's just no way around it. It took me several takes to get the hang of the CSS, while Afflatus was a walk in the park.

The first clip is the Violins 1 patch from CSS in Con Sordino, followed by the Scene d'Amour patch.



The second clip is the standard Violins 1 patch from CSS, followed by the Lush Strings patch from Afflatus.



I also wanted to note that no reverb has been added. As you can hear, Afflatus is much closer/dryer sounding (which I greatly prefer). CSS is more lush, but I feel that can get in the way of detail at times.

Personally, I'd take Afflatus.

Detail is a gap I've noticed with CSS and CSSS. I can get a great large section sound and a great solo sound, but I always wanted there to be a chamber CSS for the in between parts. Afflatus has a variety of chamber sections, which I found to be refreshing, considering chamber ensembles aren't common in sampling for some reason.
 
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