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A full Berlin template (purged) is running ridiculously high in ram

sure, I never said this is not how it currently is. Like I said: current state.

point is: it is a very flawed, very inefficient concept. it does work, at a cost.

In an optimized system, only deviations from default are needed to re-instantiate a previous state.

And that concept, has been around for 1 gazillion years. Matter of fact, at the very latest, with the advent of XML and Json (etc) way over a decade ago everybody started implementing that.

As an evolution, this is how current web apps operate with React, Redux etc. Only deviations from current app state are pulled.

Like I stated a few pages ago: Kontakt's architecture is 10 years behind.

Which explains some devs problems with the platform, but - if the dev is not an amateur - the dev knows this, and he architects the NKI file with that in mind.......... or provide an alternative, less expensive solution (bare bones optimized patches).

If the large majority of peeps would use a Mac with a max of 64GB RAM and VEPro would not exist, then these peeps could NOT even just load a fully purged, all single patches full OT orchestra. And obviously they could never play the orchestra.

And in that world, I guran-freaking-tee you OT would get their shit together and optimize things. THAT is the point. They are lazy and far off. And we're paying the cost for that.

Alright, as redundant as this has been stating the same thing 100 times. It is what it is, I doubt it will change with OT, and probably take 20 years for Kontakt to improve anything.

Very mindboggling though seeing people defending the current, very flawed status quo.
Ultra, IT IS a state of mind.. not a state of knowledge. To elaborate, see what they do with samples:
1. Berlin Strings: Basses has these known issues for ages. Can only be fixed by recording the samples, no way around it. Their reaction : we're working on it..NO YOU'RE NOT!
2. Berlin Strings: First chairs has these wrong samples that need to be re-recorded. Their reaction: we're working on it..NO YOU'RE NOT!EXIT: EDIT: yes you did update at no cost.. kudos! Looking forward to doing the same with Woodwinds exp. A; still waiting.
3. Nocturne Cello: lots of wrong samples .some of them can be fixed in editing, others need to be re-sampled. Their support reaction: yes we acknowledge them.. their support reaction few months later: what problems, no problems, Cello is perfect!
4. Ark 2: To be realistic here, I am talking about re-editing several instruments; not the noise issues; waiting for Godot.
5. Berlin Brass? Couple of months later and they fix it! they know it's crucial to their image.
So you see? In the same way they won't do anything about anything unless they can see that their image is tarnished. It's a management policy, not a technical aspect of the problem.
 
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Ultra, IT IS a state of mind.. not a state of knowledge. To elaborate, see what they do with samples:
1. Berlin Strings: Basses has these known issues for ages. Can only be fixed by recording the samples, no way around it. Their reaction : we're working on it..NO YOU'RE NOT!
2. Berlin Strings: First chairs has these wrong samples that need to be re-recorded. Their reaction: we're working on it..NO YOU'RE NOT!
3. Nocturne Cello: lots of wrong samples .some of them can be fixed in editing, others need to be re-sampled. Their support reaction: yes we acknowledge them.. their support reaction few months later: what problems, no problems, Cello is perfect!
4. Ark 2: To be realistic here, I am talking about re-editing several instruments; not the noise issues; waiting for Godot.
5. Berlin Brass? Couple of months later and they fix it! they know it's crucial to their image.
So you see? In the same way they won't do anything about anything unless they can see that their image is tarnished. It's a management policy, not a technical aspect of the problem.

Couldn't agree more, that is why I said what I said repeatedly ;)

If they'd taken the time after BWW, receiving all that feedback, to sit down and revise their lib architecture around the pitfalls that Kontakt has, and come up with an optimized system (or as I said at least provide a bare bones patch as a resource saving alternative - there's various ways of tackling this), then all libs after that (BST|BPC|BBR) would have benefited from that. And all of us.

But you need somebody who knows what they're doing as Capsule is a larger implementation.
 
Something I don't get... Chris Hein's system can do everything Capsule can do, and even more. But his instruments are not taking up these insane amounts of RAM.
 
Something I don't get... Chris Hein's system can do everything Capsule can do, and even more. But his instruments are not taking up these insane amounts of RAM.
That was the same issue I brought up with VSL's VIP. In fact VIP is the most full featured, most stable player on the market for a fraction of the foot print. I just don't understand.
 
That was the same issue I brought up with VSL's VIP. In fact VIP is the most full featured, most stable player on the market for a fraction of the foot print. I just don't understand.

Can VIP make any articulation legato? Switch articulations mid-note? Note-heads? Scripted vibrato? Body IRs?

On thing Capsule can do that Chris Hein's doesn't - 4 way articulation x-fade. Though I think it's not really that great.

I've never used VIP, but I'd be pretty shocked if it could do all that.
 
Can VIP make any articulation legato? Switch articulations mid-note? Note-heads? Scripted vibrato? Body IRs?

On thing Capsule can do that Chris Hein's doesn't - 4 way articulation x-fade. Though I think it's not really that great.

I've never used VIP, but I'd be pretty shocked if it could do all that.
I actually have a slightly different stand with Capsule; VIP CAN save you money in hardware (Ram) while making you pay, literally, with their expensive VI's. But VSL NEVER produced an unfinished library to the market.THAT is my issue with OT; I refuse to be anybody's undeclared and unwilling PAYING beta tester.
 
For the sake of balanced discussion, I use OT libraries every day (except for brass which I don't own yet), and have never had an issue. I think they are fantastic and certainly wouldn't call them unfinished or anything like that.

With that said, they do use a lot of ram, and with OT having pretty much sampled an entire orchestra, I would love to see them focus on optimizing Capsule's performance.
 
Can VIP make any articulation legato? Switch articulations mid-note? Note-heads? Scripted vibrato? Body IRs?

On thing Capsule can do that Chris Hein's doesn't - 4 way articulation x-fade. Though I think it's not really that great.

I've never used VIP, but I'd be pretty shocked if it could do all that.

I'd say it's not Capsule to do that things, but Kontakt. OT just came out with this capsule thing, but actually every orchestral library for kontakt has it's own scripting, even if they don't look for a cool name for it. I want to be clear, I think OT libraries are pretty amazing, the only libraries with a natural approach similar to VSL (and with a better sound for the moment). But this capsule thing is a non-sense, imho.

The 4-way articulations it's almost useless. A 2-way cross fading articulation can be done in VIP for sure.
Switch articulation mid-note? Yes, from any articulation you can have legato switching to the legato articulation.

Could you explain the Body ir and scripted tremolo? can't find anything online, thanks!
 
I'd say it's not Capsule to do that things, but Kontakt. OT just came out with this capsule thing, but actually every orchestral library for kontakt has it's own scripting, even if they don't look for a cool name for it. I want to be clear, I think OT libraries are pretty amazing, the only libraries with a natural approach similar to VSL (and with a better sound for the moment). But this capsule thing is a non-sense, imho.

The 4-way articulations it's almost useless. A 2-way cross fading articulation can be done in VIP for sure.
Switch articulation mid-note? Yes, from any articulation you can have legato switching to the legato articulation.

Could you explain the Body ir and scripted tremolo? can't find anything online, thanks!

I agree the 4-way articulations are pretty useless.

Switch articulation mid note, what I meant is holding a note, e.g. sustain, and press a key and it turns into a trill seamlessly, then let go and it becomes a sustain again. Christ Hein and Embertone both allow this (Capsule can do it with it's x-fade, but personally I think the Hein/Embertone works better).

So VIP allows e.g. legato transitions with the portato/tremolo/trill samples? Hein allows legato between literally any samples, so I think he wins here. Looking at the VSL site, it seems only certain articulations are legato.

Sorry, I meant Scripted vibrato. So with Embertone and Hein you can use CC to control vibrato speed/depth, and it actually sounds quite good. Hein uses sampled vibrato as well, whereas Embertone is entirely scripted (but their scripting does sound good). They also have scripted sordino (meaning all articulations can be sordino, without any more sample-overhead). And Embertone will allow you to change bow-position using phase-aligned samples of the bow at different positions.

Body IR - Hein has a short IR option for his strings, which changes the 'body tone'. Because his samples are ultra dry, these tiny IRs allow you to give the instruments different tones (like, a larger/darker/woodier violin, or a brighter, more nasal violin).
 
FYI I upgraded to 128gig.

My full berlin template is about 70 gig purged haha.

start utilizing all the mic positions and you're talking about a dizzying amount of ram usage.

It's awesome having everything at your fingertips though :D
 
FYI I upgraded to 128gig.

My full berlin template is about 70 gig purged haha.

start utilizing all the mic positions and you're talking about a dizzying amount of ram usage.

It's awesome having everything at your fingertips though :D
Hi,
Thanks for reporting that.
1. can you please elaborate (list) those OT libraries that used 70GB in Ram?
2. when you say purged, do you mean no mics whatsoever, or with one mic. active, if you have one mic active then which one?
thanks.
 
Hi,
Thanks for reporting that.
1. can you please elaborate (list) those OT libraries that used 70GB in Ram?
2. when you say purged, do you mean no mics whatsoever, or with one mic. active, if you have one mic active then which one?
thanks.

All BS, BB, BWW, BP (perc), Harps, ARK Choirs. Tree mics originally but I've just changed so all mics are loaded but muted (for easier mixing). I'd have to check to see if the ram footprint is bigger now.
 
All BS, BB, BWW, BP (perc), Harps, ARK Choirs. Tree mics originally but I've just changed so all mics are loaded but muted (for easier mixing). I'd have to check to see if the ram footprint is bigger now.
Sorry , more questions:
1. “..but muted”.. you mean not purged, just muted? does muting without purging affect ram load?
2. These above are just the main libraries.. no expansions, correct?
 
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Sorry , more questions:
1. “..but muted”.. you mean not purged, just muted? doeas muting without purging affect ram load?
2. These above are just the main libraries.. no expansions, correct?
Expansions included (except brass additional & winds solo 2)

everything is purged, but I have activated all mics (turned them on). I haven't checked the ram usage since I've done that. Next time I have a chance, ill let you know.
 
I'm running 32gb of ram using BB+mutes and BWW+EXP A and sitting at about 82% at all times. I'm also using CSS, LADD, and some HOP.

It can bog down occasionally when it gets heavy but I'm usually doing just fine
 
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