What's new

VSL Synchron Strings I Announced (Nov. Release)

The Beauty of Simplicity
With Synchron Strings I, we have achieved the ultimate in realism and expressiveness, while providing a new level of ease-of-use. (...) Its innovative new algorithms make it even more effortless to render strings with astounding realism.
How much I wish this were true (it is the reason I pre-ordered!).

And don't forget the "Synchron Strings I is about to set a new standard in sound, playability and realism".
 
The Beauty of Simplicity
With Synchron Strings I, we have achieved the ultimate in realism and expressiveness, while providing a new level of ease-of-use. (...) Its innovative new algorithms make it even more effortless to render strings with astounding realism.

:rolleyes:

But they forgot to add, that you first have to obtain a PHD in Synchron Strings 1 Operations Technology & Applied Musical Sciences Degree before you can realize how easy it is to use, and produce realistic result, looks like no one got their PHD yet to post a great sounding demo. Hahaha.
 
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shortcomings of the library have nothing to do with not being "open minded", "skilled" or "educated" enough.

Short comings in articulation yes fact, open minded in the fact some see much more in the library than others and are able to make the product work and sound good including legato, and are not clowns fact
 
What I'll never get used to, is the way people on forums so blatantly lack basic etiquette and social skills. To blurt out that someone's music is a joke, without so much as a single kind word, especially when anyone who's worked with virtual instruments and composition understands the sheer magnitude and amount of work that goes in to producing a nine minute orchestral piece, is in my opinion, very distasteful and indicative of someone that clearly lacks maturity and awareness.

I'm sorry you had to suffer that Dave. I just want to let you know that I really appreciate your posts, especially of your own music, even more so given the increasingly hostile climate here. I've learned a lot about how VSL does and could sound, and your recordings have helped me make many satisfying purchase decisions. I also appreciate that you're working in more of the non-cinematic, pure orchestral space, and thus your examples show off different things than others. So, thanks!

As creative people we ought to realize how corrosive direct, unconstructive, negative feedback is to our psyches and sense of self worth, and that it's no different for other creative people, be they our fellow musicians or those making sample libs and other tools we use.

I haven't been in this community long, but I have seen other communities fall when such negativity increases and is tolerated. I know the mods are working on this, and am hopeful.

So to all the fire-breathers out there (if you take personal offense at this then you know who you are): I know you think your petty little negative barbs are clever and valuable and somehow driving the world to conform to your needs. But the truth is, your messages are nothing more than hot air, they contribute nothing, create nothing, and demonstrate nothing but the copious amounts of free time you have to waste criticizing people who actually create things, while you behave like entitled little children with poor communication and social skills. Your negativity is destructive to others and the community, so think twice before posting venom, please. It might make you feel just as good to just type it out but not send it. Try it!
 
The Beauty of Simplicity
With Synchron Strings I, we have achieved the ultimate in realism and expressiveness, while providing a new level of ease-of-use. (...) Its innovative new algorithms make it even more effortless to render strings with astounding realism.

Perhaps simplicity should not have been used or even the words effortless should not ha e been used.
 
I don't think they've made it "work" at all, the end result is what it is. They just have different standards. They're certainly not my standards when it comes to doing convincing strings mockups.

I agree to some degree but can we not say that about all string librarys is it not skill level or the users knowledge, or how strings work because in some muck ups what ever library it is orchestral knowledge goes a long way
 
What are your credentials? Where can I listen to some music you have composed with sample libraries? Just so I know who I am talking to.

Not getting an answer to this, am I?

@Dear Villain just posted a wonderful muck up and without a second thought you slammed it as crap, you was not looking for anything good to say about it just crap crap crap any thing SyS is crap but your asking me to post, where are your decency dude you ant looking for constructive criticism or any thing good in SyS your just waiting to say crap why would anyone want to post
 
@Dear Villain just posted a wonderful muck up and without a second thought you slammed it as crap, you was not looking for anything good to say about it just crap crap crap any thing SyS is crap but your asking me to post, where are your decency dude you ant looking for constructive criticism or any thing good in SyS your just waiting to say crap why would anyone want to post

Truth is, you are not a composer, are you...
 
I'm sorry you had to suffer that Dave. I just want to let you know that I really appreciate your posts, especially of your own music, even more so given the increasingly hostile climate here. I've learned a lot about how VSL does and could sound, and your recordings have helped me make many satisfying purchase decisions. I also appreciate that you're working in more of the non-cinematic, pure orchestral space, and thus your examples show off different things than others. So, thanks!

As creative people we ought to realize how corrosive direct, unconstructive, negative feedback is to our psyches and sense of self worth, and that it's no different for other creative people, be they our fellow musicians or those making sample libs and other tools we use.

I haven't been in this community long, but I have seen other communities fall when such negativity increases and is tolerated. I know the mods are working on this, and am hopeful.

So to all the fire-breathers out there (if you take personal offense at this then you know who you are): I know you think your petty little negative barbs are clever and valuable and somehow driving the world to conform to your needs. But the truth is, your messages are nothing more than hot air, they contribute nothing, create nothing, and demonstrate nothing but the copious amounts of free time you have to waste criticizing people who actually create things, while you behave like entitled little children with poor communication and social skills. Your negativity is destructive to others and the community, so think twice before posting venom, please. It might make you feel just as good to just type it out but not send it. Try it!

Rich,

It's rare to see a post that is so heartfelt and sincere, and expresses exactly my personal feelings. Thank you for being so willing to share what I think a lot of people that post on forums need to hear: there is a person behind every post. The music we create and share is meaningful and a source of pride to us. It may not be to someone else, but to purposefully and with no regard to the feelings of the person sharing their work, demean, disparage, or otherwise dismiss as worthless or bad, etc. is to really fail to see a much bigger lesson: it's much better to be a source of light, to bring people up, to appreciate a community built on sharing our talents with each other, than it is to elevate yourself at the expense of others.

I will continue to post music as I enjoy contributing in this way, in spite of the few that always come out of the woodwork to criticize (as in non-constructive...unlike Elias, whose feedback was in the spirit of improving my piece and most welcome). I receive a lot of validation in the real world (two performances of VSL rendered works this week in Ontario and Alberta by symphony musicians that were specifically sold on the music by my mock-ups). Perhaps that's why I take all this with a grain of salt. We all have different criteria as to what we're listening for, and to that end, I'm sure much of my music is unappealing to many people here, but I personally would never initiate a discussion with anyone, beginning with "is that supposed to be a joke?" Wow, just wow.

Cheers and I'm glad you've gotten some value out of my past postings, Rich. Your post just made my day and reminded me that there are still good, decent people, even on message boards :)

All the best,
Dave
 
Hi,

It would be really appreciated if we can stick to discussing the library, and not forum members musicianship, we are all great musicians, and have unique talents, this thread is about VSL Synchron Strings 1, so let's stay on topic.

Thanks,
Muziksculp
 
Not at all, but it will make it obvious that you dont know what you are talking about when you evaluate sample libraries.

Wow you drive a hard bargain dude turn it down a notch down, try not to get to personal.

Hi,

It would be really appreciated if we can stick to discussing the library, and not forum members musicianship, we are all great musicians, and have unique talents, this thread is about VSL Synchron Strings 1, so let's stay on topic.

Perhaps this is the way forward
 
It's funny. I've been following this thread for ages, reading every page since around november while sipping my morning coffee, giggling at some of the quick-witted answers from some, and often shocked by the complete lack of social skills emanating from others. Which is strange as music is in great part the expression of impressions and feelings turned into sound, I dread to hear the music of individuals whose sole purpose is egotistical self-satisfaction at the expense of respect and civility. Hurting others won't bring you better sounding samples. It is ok if you made a mistake. Just try to sell your library back. There is no need to avenge your pride because you bought something that doesn't suit you.

You bought that hat, you were so happy you thought everyone would say how cool you look, but after a few days, you noticed you just look dumb with it? Don't put it on. Or bring it back, and tell the hatter you're not satisfied, maybe. But don't just go to the shop whinning, threatening, then slamming your fists on the counter while insulting the clients around laughing at how ridiculous they look, hoping the hatter will comply with your every demand and bring you the perfect new hat for free. If you think that way, you must be immensly disatisfied with almost everything life is made of. The hatter did his best to create a pretty hat, and now he is being scolded for that. The hat is pretty, Maybe you're just not as pretty as you thought you were. Yeah I know, you could have bought two new roompacks with the money, or half the dimension collection you where hesitant to get because somehow, the sound seemed a bit metallic to your precious ears. Samples are expensive because they are hard and painstaking to create. They aren't good enough for your music? Try pencil and paper. Try screenwritting! You're good at creating a scene drived by conflict, and visibly a prolific writer.



At the bottom of everyhting, I really think people working at developping sample libraries wish to make others happy and help them create beautiful music, while on the other hand, one cannot dismiss the pecuniary dimension of it all either. They all try to sell. Everyone needs to eat. But, be it toward the music of composers brave and generous enough to risk posting excerpts of their work in here only to see themselves ridiculed, or toward the VSL team, such lack of respect is untolerable in my opinion, as empathy and respect are basic notions anyone should learn before pretending to interact as an adult. You won't get the best out of people while whipping them. They'll ditch you on the side of the road on the first occasion with a bump on the forehead. Healthy emulation comes from positive criticism. Do you seriously think the dedicated people from VSL, who spent months planning and adjusting microphones, joking with the musicians, sweating over thousands of samples to combine and hoping for the best are gonna come in front of you here, laugh sadly and watch their feet saying: "Yeah, you're right, we suck." Would you? Haha, no.



I have bought loads of libraries during the past years, the full VSL Cube, plus the organ, the piano, the saxophones, then Hollywood Strings, Hollywood Brass, Spitfire S.O. and Chamber Strings, Embertone strings, CSS, CSSS, VSS2, QL Spaces, MIR Pro, etc. I am of no Party, I love them all, I hate them all. My neck hurts at the end of the day, I don't sleep well. Jeez, it was so much easier with some scoring paper in front of the piano 20 years ago! Everything sounded right inside my head. All of these are amazing products, but most of the time, you give your score to real musicians, hear it and tell yourself : "Wow! Did I really compose that??" You give the same score to your beloved template and think: "I am shit." and after three weeks of CC editing and tweaking, you get half the quarter of the real guys' result. Of course you want the perfect strings, woodwinds, brass. You cry when you listen to better John Williams mock-ups than yours, it's always featuring the library you don't own yet.

I don't have the Synchron Strings. Because I am the same as you, human, always wishing for better, I hesitate, I crave, carry ever greater expectations and then yield to temptation and am disappointed more often than not. Then I am broke and have to wait before the next big thing. And in November I could never have afforded these new instruments. But I've listened to every demo I could find and, well, my verdict is that it's a VSL library in every respect. VSL always try to be innovative. And then the others around see that idea and do it differently, sometimes better for "this" or "that". Others wanna be innovative and they sample 500 cellos so that the next trailer music will break new ground, enriched by the glorious swimming pool of 4/4, C minor, I-VI-IV-V triads of 1500 virtual cellos under three fingers! I am fine with that, if that makes one happy, it's fine. It sure is silky.
 
But there is one thing: VSL is always consistent. You might not like the design of the hat, but damn the thing will resist to a heavy pour, and remain on your head through a thunder storm. I defend them here because the thread is about their product. Sure, these demos here or there sound more convincing. But did they mock up the whole freaking Rite of Spring?? Or the full extent of Star Wars' main title? Or Gershwin's piano concerto? Nope. There is nothing more honest in my opinion than doing demos using well known masterpieces. It's easy to get around the flaws of a library when you write something new. We've all done that. You know, that thing you so wanted to hear but you had to put tremolos or 5 note arpeggios instead because of the blattant machine gun? VSL creates versatile instruments, which are calibrated. Do you know many companies that offer fingered tremolos? The true range of double basses con sordino? Natural harmonic glissandos? And most of the time the same range of articulations for every instrument of the same family? The creators themselves answer your questions of their forum everyday. I don't see other companies doing that. "Send us the file, we'll open it and see if we can reproduce the bug here". Wow.

Of course, our vision of what a sample library should be depends on our artistic goals. It differs for everyone. I like timbral inventions and effects, extended intricate writing and contrapuntal works. I don't want to use some prerecorded textures. I want to be free to try an idea and hear it, and VSL libraries are about the only ones that allow me to do that. And if the articulation I'm looking for is not available, I know they are about the only guys who probably thought about it and plan to offer it someday. I don't like trailer music, I don't care about 20 horns in unisson and I love woodwinds.

My opinion is that the Synchron Strings were created with a different architecture in mind, in order to offer a lot more dynamic layers and round robins than usual. Thus, attacks might have been separated from their remaining lengths in order to achieve a greater number of versions of the same note without making the library immensly heavy, but I might be wrong. Also, they seem to offer a greater number of microphone positions than most and calibrated dynamics. Multiply all these dynamic layers by all the mic positions and you get a gargantuan library. I think this is an answer to competitors who create ambient libraries that are difficult to work with because of inconsistencies. How many times have I lost my mind trying to adjust a template where legatos are 6 dB softer than the rest of the articulations, and tremolos 7 dB louder? To me, the fact VSL envisioned an ambient series of libraries is already proof they are committed to satisfy more recent trends and demands. Of course some other libraries have more convincing legatos, they are also full of dispersed flaws which combined might sound like the true interpretation of a human being (on only 2 velocity layers sometimes). But a real musician doesn't "machine gun" flaws, and these become impossible to hide in a solo. I feel that VSL knows that and tries to allow users to create their own flaws from a pristine canvas, too pristine or surgical for many, as it is a lot of work for sure to create them all from scratch. The brushes are top notch, the canvas is the best linen you can find, but the brush strokes aren't there yet. You have to brush them in yourself. The major problem, in my opinion, is that they might have had too many irons in the fire, trying to emulate so many dynamic layers inside a multimicrophone environnement that it rendered the feat difficult to achieve with the most realistic results. But the endeavour has to be acknowledged.

There are a lot of tools included in VSL softwares that allow you to stretch and shape the sound of an instrument and it's behavior. I would suggest unsatisfied users to dig into the manuals a bit more because these contain a wealth of information about possibilities most won't exploit by lack of knowledge, motivation, or simply because there are so many combinations of approaches that one's fails to keep them all at the top of his (or her!) mind while working. I am one of them and am still learning. But once you discover how much you can do with these instruments, the gained sensation of freedom and steadiness is uncomparable. It will never be perfect, and Synchron Strings have their flaws, but they are a first and a risk willingly taken. This should be kept in mind, I think before starting to deride the effort. They are The Last Jedi of string libraries, haha! They sure subverted the expectations of many, and are very devisive, but that's what happens when some raise their expectations too high or believe too much in their own erroneous predictions. Still, better new than rehash. They have amazing shorts and a definition of sound I have never heard before. From what I've heard, they are a quality instrument, full of nuance. Unlike some of the people here who seem very happy to loudly repeat the same thing two hundred times, complaining. I would suggest to such persons to let go of their hate and stop such attacks on the hard work of others, composers and sample library creators alike, who have been since then more than likely hurt, both personally and commercially.

I apologise for my english, it is not my mother tongue, and I return bellow, into the depths of the internet...
 
Hi all. Fairly new to VI control, but I did have some opinions to share about Synchron Strings.

I do actually agree with many of the criticisms of the library: (a) super shorts seem too truncated at the sample start, (b) legato transitions don't really seem to have true legato interval transitions, (c) sfz sounds blatantly like a short note layered on a sustain, and (d) generally I wish there were more articulations.

HOWEVER.... one of the things I loved in the past about their dry instruments was the ability to sculpt a nuanced performance with velocity xfade and articulation substitutions - I felt it was actually a nice advantage that their samples were so uniform and consistent, so it was possible to control the details of how expressiveness is performed.

For what it's worth, I do feel that VSL has managed to keep that property in Synchron Strings - the consistency of the samples is enough to allow articulation substitutions and fast crossfades as techniques for squeezing nuance in a performance. I don't know if that's important to people these days, but I like that aspect of the library.

I think the "sterile" "lifeless" sound of VSL can often be attributed users not riding the velocity xfade dramatically enough and often enough. I find it actually works better to think of velocity xfade as a bow pressure/speed control that you want to vary almost on every note, even moderately fast notes. Similarly, an "unnatural sounding line" can often be attributed to users not sculpting the attack and release of each note in ways that may mimic real players - this sculpting, for me, is a combination of velocity xfade riding and substituting articulations in not-so-obvious ways. Like using Fp on fast notes that should have a rounded emphasis. This is where more articulations could have helped, in my opinion, but oh well.

For sure, that kind of tweaking and hard work isn't for everyone - but I think it has been the spirit of VSL instruments all along, and it can be put to good use, and Synchron Strings retained this.

OK, so some examples to demonstrate what I'm proposing above. Here were a few Synchron Strings legato demos I made several months ago:

This one was various experiments with close mic mixing with other mics:


This video was earlier, trying to demonstrating that polyphonc legato with MIDI notes overlapping can help mask the odd legato transitions. That legato technique works better in my opinion than legato blur. I know a lot of people aren't satisfied with the legato (I am one of them) but for 95% of legato situations in practice, I think this technique is good enough to allow a listener to focus on the rest of the music, and not necessarily notice poor transitions. Also, please note, that the middle sections of this demo are intended to show how some techniques alone are NOT adequate. The real technique I think works is shown at the beginning and at the end.


One other thought I had, but I have not experimented with this as much and I don't know for certain: I suspect many people (me definitely included) jumped straight to the strong vibrato style articulations, without considering the normal vibrato at all. Maybe if we try to scale back all dynamics by one level, and if we use the normal vibrato more often, saving the strong vibrato for those occasional expressive moments (and crossfading between normal and strong for that), maybe that could reveal another layer of expressiveness that these samples have. I wonder if a lot of us have been trying to mix the mic positions based on how the strong vib sounds, which might be preventing us from hearing how good the normal vibrato might be. I hope I can experiment with this eventually, but sadly I already know I won't have any time to try for several more months. I'd be interested to hear experiments if other people try these ideas.

Cheers!
 
Rich,

It's rare to see a post that is so heartfelt and sincere, and expresses exactly my personal feelings. Thank you for being so willing to share what I think a lot of people that post on forums need to hear: there is a person behind every post. The music we create and share is meaningful and a source of pride to us. It may not be to someone else, but to purposefully and with no regard to the feelings of the person sharing their work, demean, disparage, or otherwise dismiss as worthless or bad, etc. is to really fail to see a much bigger lesson: it's much better to be a source of light, to bring people up, to appreciate a community built on sharing our talents with each other, than it is to elevate yourself at the expense of others.

I will continue to post music as I enjoy contributing in this way, in spite of the few that always come out of the woodwork to criticize (as in non-constructive...unlike Elias, whose feedback was in the spirit of improving my piece and most welcome). I receive a lot of validation in the real world (two performances of VSL rendered works this week in Ontario and Alberta by symphony musicians that were specifically sold on the music by my mock-ups). Perhaps that's why I take all this with a grain of salt. We all have different criteria as to what we're listening for, and to that end, I'm sure much of my music is unappealing to many people here, but I personally would never initiate a discussion with anyone, beginning with "is that supposed to be a joke?" Wow, just wow.

All the best,
Dave

Just for the record, again, my comment was not aimed at the composition! But your post was a response to the criticism of SyS. So yes, I don't think your piece proves anything good about SyS and its legato/sound. Sorry if it came across as a criticism of your compositional abilities, that was not my intention.
 
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For what it's worth, I do feel that VSL has managed to keep that property in Synchron Strings - the consistency of the samples [...]

I think the "sterile" "lifeless" sound of VSL can often be attributed users not riding the velocity xfade dramatically enough and often enough.
I believe the consistency of the samples is in fact its Achilles heel. The lifeless sound is not cured by riding the xfade more often, I tried. The timbre - determined by how the players performed - is baked in, and you can't change that no matter how much you pull on that mod wheel (or whatever controller one uses). That is why it sounds flat. If I pick any recent library - be it CSS, Soaring Strings, or Jaeger - even when not using xfade control to shape the dynamics, the strings already sound 'alive' when playing the most simplest of lines. No amount of cc tweaking will fix this for Synchron, they'd need new recordings.
 
Several articulation options in the library are just stacked samples and not true articulations at all (super short, sfz, fp, marcato). That's a FACT. No amount of "open-mindedness" or zen will be able to change that.
You think that super shorts are stacked? I am pretty shure with sfz but not others. I could not find any official statement here which articulations are "true" (recorded) and which are "scripted". Any other opinions there?
 
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